Mariyam Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I totally agree with this. Since the crime has happened, the criminals should pay. What are the current laws on such acts? I don't think they are strong. The molester can get upto 2 years of jail and/or a fine. Its not the law which isn't strong. Its the implementation and the lackadaisical attitude of the enforcement agencies which is the issue here. If this were a girl from the lower strata of society, and it weren't captured on cam, in most of the cases the cops wouldn't even lodge an FIR. At best, they'd talk her our of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The molester can get upto 2 years of jail and/or a fine. Its not the law which isn't strong. Its the implementation and the lackadaisical attitude of the enforcement agencies which is the issue here. If this were a girl of a lower strata of the society, and it weren't captured on cam, in most of the cases the cops wouldn't even lodge an FIR. At best, they'd talk her our of it. To be honest - 2 years isn't enough for me. Increase it and as you say "implement it" (rightfully though no wrong cases please ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 No, no and no. This is exactly what we dont want. This is why we still have such incidences. This is why our country is in some part still stuck in the middle ages 1) People like you making these points completely deflect attention from the real criminals. No matter how valid your point might be, even one of you making such points after every such incident is enough to deflect attention and thats the worst thing you can do. People cannot tackle multiple issues at once, so in the loud noise made by these points, the real issue gets lost. Like in this thread, after you and that pace guy made their point, the real issue got lost and we are now arguing something else. So in a way, guys like you contribute a bit to molesters getting away in the long run and society taking longer time to change 2) What is the ideal scenario? Where a woman can be safe or where she has to be a second citizen who thinks 10 times before going anywhere in her own country? Again, only one problem can be solved at a time, where should the focus be? Taking emptions out, its like, if you know you have a bug in your system which is bothering you. You know that this bug can be removed but it will take lots of time and effort but after that you will have a clean programe. On the other hand, you also know that there is a workaround which causes the software to work but limits lots of its functions. We have young new guys in the company who want to invest time and effort and remove the bug. But we have senior, old managers (thats you), who tell them to use the workaround and not waste time. Now as long as you keep using the workaround, you will never sit and work on removing the bug. Again remember, sitting at home is a stop gap measure, not a long term solution in changing society 3) There are often times women stuck in unsafe places but not of their own choice. If you are an employeed working man, you know sometimes, inadverdently, your work, etc will cause you to be out late alone. There are at least moire than 5 times this might have happened to you. Similarly, its not that women dont understand the danger of staying out late and alone, its often that they have no choice or there was a sudden change of plans somewhere. Your suggestion seems to be that these women should either stay at home or, on those special occasions, still defy their managers and leave early without finishing work. Either way, their career is gone. 4) How can you judge a women so casually. Most of the molestation and rapes happen when women are decently covered and by someone known to them. There is no statistics to support skimpy clothes causes more molestation. However, people do use clothes to justify the assault but these people have the same mentality as the molester. Only the lowest of man will compare an exposed woman to some valuable goods. Really, is that how we measure a fellow human being, just because they are from an opposite sex? 5) Finally, you might say that my points are more idealistic and in the cloud and not suited for the real world. In the real world, women should be careful every step. But we have been living in the real world for ages. Women have tried everything for ages, yet the crime rate against them remain constant. There were crime against women since the war, there were crimes against women since ancient times. There were crime against women when they stayed at home. And this will continue till the time we have even one apologist who points finger at what a woman was doing, instead of using the same hand to slap the man molesting him. Most harm to humanity have been done by people sitting on fences and overtly justifying any violent or criminal action. If the black man knew his place and didnt enter a white only place, he wouldnt have been shot, blacks should be mindful of the danger from white supremists. If the jew remained amongst his community and didnt try to rise above, he wouldnt have been gassed, after all the time is bad for jews so they should be careful. If the Taliban hadnt been bombed, they wouldnt be taking revenge by blowing girl schools. if it was upto such apologists, blacks would still be safer as slaves and in plantations, and women would be safe behind her kitchen and her veil w/o even trying to understand I was talking about - you just started blowing your "higher moral" trumpet. No one is justifying criminal action. No one is asking to be lenient with criminals (once it is proven). No one is asking for punishing victim. You can not educate the whole society overnight. You need to understand what it means by taking responsibility of one's own action - "what one could have done to avoid landing in 'situations'" - learning from own experience, from news, from stats, from others' experiences..etc...etc.. We live in a real world. In your ideal world, there would be no need of police, law enforcement etc... there wont be (relatively) high crime areas, there wont be (relatively) high risk hours. As for rapists - they are no different from a hungry dog, you can not educate them, you can not predict their action... they (usually) hunt in pairs/groups, usually concentrated around certain areas, usually act at certain hours, usually make a move by spotting a vulnerable victim (vulnerability would be function of time, location, protection level etc etc). And how do you reduce chances of being bitten by dogs? (I remember, someone suggested proactive neutering - can you do that with human beings?) Taking precautions - according to the law(lessness) of the land/location - will not gurantee 100% safety, but probabilistically speaking - it would reduce the chances of mishaps. There is a reason, from childhood, you are taught about certain precautionary measures - dont talk to strangers, dont do this/that, how to cross the road, don't go in the river w/o life-guard.. blah blah. If you walk into a shady neighbourhood with known high crime rate, at high risk hour - carrying costly laptop/gadgets/jewelry (some may not be our own too), w/o any form of protection - and you get robbed. Do you sincerely think you had no responsiblity of not taking certain precautionary measures? You/beetle/etc. acknowledged that - there are people (rapists/robbers or whatever), who are on lookout for vulnerable victims - you can not change their mentality, you can not teach them any morals- overnight - only thing that is in your control is, from your side, take as much precaution as possible. So, if there are some clues about what might trigger them, in what areas, at what times - the risk is higher - it is wise to take appropriate precautions. Once the crime is proved - culprit should get strictest punishment, but that does not mean you start being careless. As for point #5, yes we are living in real world for ages.. things have moved at very slow rate (at social level)...e.g. until not very long ago people used to do all sorts of tortures/mutilations to war prisoners - so gruesome that rape would sound fun activity in comparison. As for, why crime against women have not reduced - what is the stats you have to put such claim? May be its that the crimes have reduced, but reported crimes have increased - overall offsetting any progress (perceivable). BTW, what is your perfect plan to tackle this issue? Or can you give me an example where some similar social issue was eradicated by the stroke of a hammer? Things will change and are changing - but a bit slowly - incremental changes is the keyword....we have to continue taking safety measures from our side, and law/police has to continue making progress at their front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Disgusting and shocking. Was seeing an interview with the camera person and his assistant. The assistant made a dash for a police station and informed the cops about the ongoing molestation. He said there were about 15 odd cops in the station. At first the cops just asked him to wait and only when he said he had footage and was a newsperson, that they acted. Then too they just sent 2 or 3 havaldars. If the Guwahati police are even in the least bit serious about their image, they should initiate an inquiry into the actions (inaction) of the inspector/sub-inspector in charge and suspend him till the investigation is on. The other thing that stands out is that many of the bystanders, instead of helping the girl, instead chose to join the group of molesters. Speechless at the total lack of values and the mindset of these people, who probably did this thinking they could get away with it. In that case, I think, whoever filmed the video - did a great job. As Krishna would have say - you do your job, leave rest to _fill_in_the_blanks_... a reporter's dharm/karm is to capture news/incident, and that is what it should be his first priority.. anything extra is upto his discretion, his reading of situation, and capabilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The most unfortunate thing going to happen out of this incident is - those chhakey cops will go scottfree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The most unfortunate thing going to happen out of this incident is - those chhakey cops will go scottfree. Akshay, trust me on this. One of the major reasons stuff like this even happens is because the cops in India are just not competent enough to curb crime. Ours must be the worst police force of any major country. Can't remember a single high profile case which the cops have successfully solved. Cops in Mumbai ( and the wider country) only regulate crime. They accept crime as a part of life as long as they get a cut. They have stopped fighting crime so long ago, that now they are neither trained/equipped well enough nor have the necessary mental acumen to oppose crime. They'd arrest ignorant drinkers, who don't have a drinking permit. But they wouldn't arrest the owners of the wineshop who sold the drink to them without any age proof/ drinking permit. They'd show huge expenses in the equipment required column of their yearly balance sheets, but buy substandard stuff. Even after one of their best officers is martyred in a major terrorist attack because he wore faulty kevlar. They won't file FIRs. They won't proceed with a case unless you grease their hands. They will be the first to dish out chalans from the unsuspecting for breaking imaginary/ fringe rules. The cops initial reaction was not to rush to the aid of the girl, but to shrug it off as if its nothing. If we as a society are serious in being a superpower/global force, we cannot have such irresponsible and compromised individuals in posts that call for high levels of integrity and responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crookbond Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Akshay' date=' trust me on this. [b']One of the major reasons stuff like this even happens is because the cops in India are just not competent enough to curb crime. Ours must be the worst police force of any major country. Can't remember a single high profile case which the cops have successfully solved. Cops in Mumbai ( and the wider country) only regulate crime. They accept crime as a part of life as long as they get a cut. They have stopped fighting crime so long ago, that now they are neither trained/equipped well enough nor have the necessary mental acumen to oppose crime. THIS. The problem is the "Juggad" and "Chalta Hai" attitude. I have a corollary - Law & Order system is the bottleneck of almost all issues in India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 ^ I have even more fundamental corollary, we as a society are not yet at that stage when (majority) of people love/respect their jobs/duty. And there are (socioeconomic) reasons for that, which can't be changed overnight. Eventually, I have settled for this - if (educated ones) can continue doing best possible in their areas of influence, and pass on right values - to their kids, subordinates, whoever looks upto them. We would have done enough. Anything above that is icing on the cake. Ohh and not to mention, be aware and cautious of the real world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Akshay, trust me on this. One of the major reasons stuff like this even happens is because the cops in India are just not competent enough to curb crime. Ours must be the worst police force of any major country. Can't remember a single high profile case which the cops have successfully solved. Cops in Mumbai ( and the wider country) only regulate crime. They accept crime as a part of life as long as they get a cut. They have stopped fighting crime so long ago, that now they are neither trained/equipped well enough nor have the necessary mental acumen to oppose crime. They'd arrest ignorant drinkers, who don't have a drinking permit. But they wouldn't arrest the owners of the wineshop who sold the drink to them without any age proof/ drinking permit. They'd show huge expenses in the equipment required column of their yearly balance sheets, but buy substandard stuff. Even after one of their best officers is martyred in a major terrorist attack because he wore faulty kevlar. They won't file FIRs. They won't proceed with a case unless you grease their hands. They will be the first to dish out chalans from the unsuspecting for breaking imaginary/ fringe rules. The cops initial reaction was not to rush to the aid of the girl, but to shrug it off as if its nothing. If we as a society are serious in being a superpower/global force, we cannot have such irresponsible and compromised individuals in posts that call for high levels of integrity and responsibility. Agree to all this. And you would agree, it is only a subset of bigger problem developmental gap, as I said above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 This country needs an outbreak of an incurable virus strain with mortality rate of 90%. A degenerate nation. Unfortunately, a society as broken as India tends to get more orthodox and backward (see Pakistan). So, people that are expecting tougher laws and a change in mindset across the populace are going to be seriously disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adi B Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 i dearly hope that these b*****ds are punished severely ...i dont wanna see these guys get away like those 4 animals who tortured junko furuta ... punish them hard, set an example for the rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texy Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 what was the 17 yr old in a skimpy dress doing at night time by the bar? was she coming out of the bar when this incident happen? did the bar allow her to drink? why was she by herself in the middle of the night near a bar? was it a co-incidence? how did her family let her go out late night? The thing is....women in skimpy dress is considered 'easy lay' in a sexually repressed country like India. Unfortunately, women have to do everything they can to avoid attracting unwarranted attention. India will not change over night. You have to accept it and dress accordingly. In India, parents are more concerned with the grades and least concern with the development of psyche & personality. Parents forbid their children to mix with groups containing mix gender and they grow up not knowing how to deal with this when they reach puberty. So Beetle is right...parents are to blame partially for this. Mind you, education has nothing to do with this. It's the culture, mindset... Parents + Societal hypocrisy + friends you've grown up with encouraging these kind of behavior having grown up on similar mindset themselves + lack of opportunities to mix with opposite gender .....everything is to be blamed for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trichromatic Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 what was the 17 yr old in a skimpy dress doing at night time by the bar? was she coming out of the bar when this incident happen? did the bar allow her to drink? why was she by herself in the middle of the night near a bar? was it a co-incidence? how did her family let her go out late night? Three young persons had accompanied the two girls on that fateful night. The trouble started after they picked up a quarrel in a drunken state. "The birthday girl had lost her ATM card and couldn't settle the bills. So, they were evicted by the bar employees. But soon, she picked up a quarrel with the young men who accompanied her and started beating them up. When the mob started building up, the four fled the place leaving behind the victim, city senior superintendent of police (SSP) Apurba Jiban Barua told DNA. The kingpin of the mob, one Amarjyoti Kalita, is believed to have gone underground outside the state. Ironically, Kalita had fought crime against women in a TV programme where he played the role of a police officer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaceAttack Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Akshay, trust me on this. One of the major reasons stuff like this even happens is because the cops in India are just not competent enough to curb crime. Ours must be the worst police force of any major country. Can't remember a single high profile case which the cops have successfully solved. Cops in Mumbai ( and the wider country) only regulate crime. They accept crime as a part of life as long as they get a cut. They have stopped fighting crime so long ago, that now they are neither trained/equipped well enough nor have the necessary mental acumen to oppose crime. They'd arrest ignorant drinkers, who don't have a drinking permit. But they wouldn't arrest the owners of the wineshop who sold the drink to them without any age proof/ drinking permit. They'd show huge expenses in the equipment required column of their yearly balance sheets, but buy substandard stuff. Even after one of their best officers is martyred in a major terrorist attack because he wore faulty kevlar. They won't file FIRs. They won't proceed with a case unless you grease their hands. They will be the first to dish out chalans from the unsuspecting for breaking imaginary/ fringe rules. The cops initial reaction was not to rush to the aid of the girl, but to shrug it off as if its nothing. If we as a society are serious in being a superpower/global force, we cannot have such irresponsible and compromised individuals in posts that call for high levels of integrity and responsibility. Most of our police force come from a poor background. They feel happy when some party going girl is molested. As I have already said, Girls have to very careful in wearing these sort of dresses in public. If a girl wears a proper dress and if she gets molested in public, people will think that some injustice is being done to the girl and they come to rescue. People in our country's mindset is like this. We cannot change their attitude for another 100 years. Girls should wear these dresses only where they feel safe. Certainly our streets are not safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akshayxyz Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Most of our police force come from a poor background. They feel happy when some party going girl is molested. As I have already said' date= Girls have to very careful in wearing these sort of dresses in public. If a girl wears a proper dress and if she gets molested in public, people will think that some injustice is being done to the girl and they come to rescue. People in our country's mindset is like this. We cannot change their attitude for another 100 years. Girls should wear these dresses only where they feel safe. Certainly our streets are not safe. That is definitely not the way to put it - whatever you meant to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vilander Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 India is a degenerate society. I hope and pray that some epidemic or cataclysm cleanses India off of all us the bereft masses and our pathetic existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger80 Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 India is a degenerate society. I hope and pray that some epidemic or cataclysm cleanses India off of all us the bereft masses and our pathetic existence. :facepalm: Because of these shameful incidents people want entire india to be killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suraj Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I know I am not the only one who probably wants to vent out pages & pages on such shameful crap but these incidents just leave one dumbfounded to say anything For the life of me i cannot understand the psychology behind these monsters doing what they do so just sticking to the practical aspect of the resolution it is impossible for India to manage crime through police force; not only because of sheer nos. but seriously average policeman is so much weaker than criminals. Deterrents are needed- I shudder to think that this is one of the thousands of incidents that has come to life because of a camera but how many are simply going unnoticed. Since it has become so high profile a strong deterrent is needed through brutal punishment and humiliation of these criminals to show that dignity is taken seriously; not sure if that will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaurav92 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I know I am not the only one who probably wants to vent out pages & pages on such shameful crap but these incidents just leave one dumbfounded to say anything For the life of me i cannot understand the psychology behind these monsters doing what they do so just sticking to the practical aspect of the resolution it is impossible for India to manage crime through police force; not only because of sheer nos. but seriously average policeman is so much weaker than criminals. Deterrents are needed- I shudder to think that this is one of the thousands of incidents that has come to life because of a camera but how many are simply going unnoticed. Since it has become so high profile a strong deterrent is needed through brutal punishment and humiliation of these criminals to show that dignity is taken seriously; not sure if that will happen. Thats says it all :(( Pathetic to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Wait ! But this cannot be. We are the post modernist India shining country that has brokn out of the shackles of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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