Umesh Yadav - As brainless as ever

[express bowling]

Expanding on Ind's cricketing culture, may be it can be defined by the following line of thinking - "Score runs, Save runs". The first half is great, but the 2nd half is what has created the problem. When the mindset is to "save runs", the strategy and tactics change. Since "saving" automatically puts one in a defensive mindset.  And this would impact Ind's performances in formats such as Tests too. The approach is similar to fortification. Such approaches have probably caused Ind states to be ruled by the attacking foreign forces. 

May be Ind needs to think along the lines - "Score runs in all conditions, Pick up wkts in all conditions". This type of thinking would encourage an approach which banks on more attacking strategies and tactics, and go the extents of fueling innovation.  When you have are focused on picking up wkts, you automatically become attacking. If a batman stays on the crease for long, you innovate to get him out. You are also thinking more as to attack you have to take the initiative and also become more focused as attacking has risks associated to it. All these would eventually make you a better cricketer, team and a cricketing nation. 

 

 

Hit the nail on the head.,

We need to play aggressive cricket....put pressure on the opposition by dragging them out of their comfort zone...scoring runs quickly where they feel that the match is slipping out of their hands every over...taking wickets...bowling quick bouncers and yorkers when everything looks comfortable for them...use wicket taking bowlers, genuine quicks, genuine turners of the ball, stroke playing batsmen. Cricket becomes very exciting to watch then.

Kohli, as a captain , has been doing more or less this in his short tenure. Which is why it looks like he will create the much needed bowling culture in our country and improve the win ratio in tests.

Edited January 24, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

Fast bowlers have different temperament. They need to be handled with care. 

There is one consistent issue with Indian cricket - a fast bowler is uncovered or pops up on the scene. Initially, he is promising but then somehow loses it or turns in to a trundler. At times, the fast bowler is ignored when he is at his peak or when he could have benefited by being drafted early in to international cricket and then makes his debut when he is past his peak speed 

If these things are consistently being repeated throughout the history of Indian cricket, who is at fault? Is it the fast bowlers or the system? If it is the system, we are probably using wrong metrics to judge fast bowlers 

Based on the results that we have been getting, it would appear as if Ind has destroyed the fast bowling culture in its cricket. I don't know too many countries where Mark Ealham types of bowlers would be rated higher (and brainy) than someone who can bowl consistently at 145 kmph or faster and may be go for runs in the process 

May be our system is such that it is creating a conflict or confusion in the minds of fast bowlers. And they are in a neither here nor there mindset. .... For a few years, why can't we overlook the ER aspect of fast bowlers and celebrate things such as the fastest bowl bowled, wickets taken, how the batsman was hurried up, how the batsman could not even see that ball, how the batsman was bounced out, how much reverse swing the bowler was able to generate, etc. 

If India does not produce good and great fast bowlers, somewhere down the line it is our fault. That India has mediocre bowlers (or people are not too keen to take fast bowling) is probably because of how its cricketing culture has shaped up. .... If we do not change, who knows, even 20 years down the line cricket fans will be discussing how brainless a fast bowler is and why Ind cannot produce good fast bowlers .... To revive or build a fast bowling culture in India, persisting and giving confidence and freedom to the likes of Yadavs, Aarons, etc. is a small price to pay 

 

Great post. He should be trying to bowl quick. In ODIs, under dhoni, he looks confused trying to bowl line and length bowler and succeeds at nothing.

[express bowling]

Well, the thing is that people expected more out of Umesh because he had traits other bowlers couldn't emulate (genuine pace) and the hope had been that he would develop into a genuine and complete fast bowler after some yrs on the circuit. Instead, he has either remained stagnant or regressed. The fact that he has 1.4 wkts per match is not so amazing - I'm sure that Pisshant is in the same ball park. And once Shami returns, one of these 2 howlers...er..bowlers must make way.

I agree with you on most of  the above points. If Shami returns then Umesh should not be in our ODI team. We should play Shami, Bumrah and Ishant in the ODIs. My point was that Umesh is still playing ODIs because we have so few wicket taking pacers in our team and the so called accurate ones have fared even worse.

1.4 wickets per match is not amazing but quite good in ODis. Only top bowlers have clearly more. 

Umesh has surely disappointed us all with his progress given that he can swing the ball at 145 k. He should have done much much more. ....We just have to see if he does better under Kohli...In the last test match he bowled a dream spell and looked very dangerous. Was far more consistent throughout the series and hence the hope. Let's hope for the best and see how it unfolds.

 

[Vijy]

I agree with you on most of  the above points. If Shami returns then Umesh should not be in our ODI team. We should play Shami, Bumrah and Ishant in the ODIs. My point was that Umesh is still playing ODIs because we have so few wicket taking pacers in our team and the so called accurate ones have fared even worse.

1.4 wickets per match is not amazing but quite good in ODis. Only top bowlers have clearly more. 

Umesh has surely disappointed us all with his progress given that he can swing the ball at 145 k. He should have done much much more. ....We just have to see if he does better under Kohli...In the last test match he bowled a dream spell and looked very dangerous. Was far more consistent throughout the series and hence the hope. Let's hope for the best and see how it unfolds.

 

He can develop into a good bowler in Tests, if nurtured well, and if he puts in the hard yards himself. In ODIs, a fit and firing Aaron would be a better choice than him if one wanted a genuine speedster. But, speaking of speed, Ishant has been cranking it up quite well, like in that last over. The 3 pronged attack you mentioned is quite viable provided that Bumrah sustains his good start. If not, a third pacer will need to be found.

1.4 per match is not bad as you said. However, I recollect Sir Aggy (an underrated cricket) having much more :)

[express bowling]

He can develop into a good bowler in Tests, if nurtured well, and if he puts in the hard yards himself. In ODIs, a fit and firing Aaron would be a better choice than him if one wanted a genuine speedster. But, speaking of speed, Ishant has been cranking it up quite well, like in that last over. The 3 pronged attack you mentioned is quite viable provided that Bumrah sustains his good start. If not, a third pacer will need to be found.

1.4 per match is not bad as you said. However, I recollect Sir Aggy (an underrated cricket) having much more :)

Agarkar had 288 wickets from 191 matches @ 1.5 wickets per ODI.  Very very good actually.  :)

Aggy was one of the better wicket takers in ODis in the first half of his career.

Kapil has 1.12 and Anil Kumble has 1.24

Edited January 24, 2016 by express bowling

[express bowling]

Great post. He should be trying to bowl quick. In ODIs, under dhoni, he looks confused trying to bowl line and length bowler and succeeds at nothing.

I am sure that if Umesh is encouraged to bowl flat out fast even in ODis then he will feel more confident , pick up more wickets, look more dangerous and may even give away less runs. He has become even less accurate and definitely less potent while trying to bowl slower than his normal pace.

[Vijy]

Agarkar had 288 wickets from 191 matches @ 1.5 wickets per ODI.  Very very good actually.  :)

Aggy was one of the better wicket takers in ODis in the first half of his career.

Yep. Good old Aggy. I'd take him over most of our current bowlers. He'll probably go for more than 6 RPO, but I'd trust his wicket taking abilities more than the others. And he was a very good fielder, and an erratic but interesting batsman. (Bombay Duck)

[Mosher]

He can develop into a good bowler in Tests, if nurtured well, and if he puts in the hard yards himself. In ODIs, a fit and firing Aaron would be a better choice than him if one wanted a genuine speedster. But, speaking of speed, Ishant has been cranking it up quite well, like in that last over. The 3 pronged attack you mentioned is quite viable provided that Bumrah sustains his good start. If not, a third pacer will need to be found.

1.4 per match is not bad as you said. However, I recollect Sir Aggy (an underrated cricket) having much more :)

Agree. Umesh for the time being should not be selected for ODI's. He should focus on test cricket where he is a much better bowler. One of the reasons he does well in test cricket is reverse swing. He is a really good exponent of reverse swing. 

Aaron can be used in place of Yadav if the selectors are looking for a genuine speedster. But he is nowhere on the selectors radar when it comes to the ODI team selection. Hopefully that will change when Kohli becomes the captain. But one reason to worry is Aaron also has the tendency to leak runs when attacked. But recently there has been a improvement in his accuracy and so can be tried in ODI's.

Regarding Sir Aggy, he was a fantastic ODI bowler for India. He maybe underrated by cricket fans but here in ICF he rightly has a lot of fans. 

 

[Vijy]

Agree. Umesh for the time being should not be selected for ODI's. He should focus on test cricket where he is a much better bowler. One of the reasons he does well in test cricket is reverse swing. He is a really good exponent of reverse swing. 

Aaron can be used in place of Yadav if the selectors are looking for a genuine speedster. But he is nowhere on the selectors radar when it comes to the ODI team selection. Hopefully that will change when Kohli becomes the captain. But one reason to worry is Aaron also has the tendency to leak runs when attacked. But recently there has been a improvement in his accuracy and so can be tried in ODI's.

Regarding Sir Aggy, he was a fantastic ODI bowler for India. He maybe underrated by cricket fans but here in ICF he rightly has a lot of fans. 

 

Sir Aggy.

[New guy]

Fast bowlers have different temperament. They need to be handled with care. 

There is one consistent issue with Indian cricket - a fast bowler is uncovered or pops up on the scene. Initially, he is promising but then somehow loses it or turns in to a trundler. At times, the fast bowler is ignored when he is at his peak or when he could have benefited by being drafted early in to international cricket and then makes his debut when he is past his peak speed 

If these things are consistently being repeated throughout the history of Indian cricket, who is at fault? Is it the fast bowlers or the system? If it is the system, we are probably using wrong metrics to judge fast bowlers 

Based on the results that we have been getting, it would appear as if Ind has destroyed the fast bowling culture in its cricket. I don't know too many countries where Mark Ealham types of bowlers would be rated higher (and brainy) than someone who can bowl consistently at 145 kmph or faster and may be go for runs in the process 

May be our system is such that it is creating a conflict or confusion in the minds of fast bowlers. And they are in a neither here nor there mindset. .... For a few years, why can't we overlook the ER aspect of fast bowlers and celebrate things such as the fastest bowl bowled, wickets taken, how the batsman was hurried up, how the batsman could not even see that ball, how the batsman was bounced out, how much reverse swing the bowler was able to generate, etc. 

If India does not produce good and great fast bowlers, somewhere down the line it is our fault. That India has mediocre bowlers (or people are not too keen to take fast bowling) is probably because of how its cricketing culture has shaped up. .... If we do not change, who knows, even 20 years down the line cricket fans will be discussing how brainless a fast bowler is and why Ind cannot produce good fast bowlers .... To revive or build a fast bowling culture in India, persisting and giving confidence and freedom to the likes of Yadavs, Aarons, etc. is a small price to pay 

 

Very good post

 

The worst part is, Ganguly unearthed Zaheer and Pathan. Kumble and Dravid actually were helping the fast bowling go forward. We were seeing more exciting spells by fast bowlers and seam bowlers. RP, Sreesanth and then Ishant were promising. Dhoni turned Ishant into a completely defensive bowler. And he has erased all progress in fast bowling made by his predecessor.

Kohli might be very pro fast bowlers, but even he will have his work cut out because of the system. But even his limited support can be seen to make a difference. And once he is captain in all three formats and has the ear of the selectors I am hoping we will see improvements in bowling.  . 

[Vijy]

Very good post

 

The worst part is, Ganguly unearthed Zaheer and Pathan. Kumble and Dravid actually were helping the fast bowling go forward. We were seeing more exciting spells by fast bowlers and seam bowlers. RP, Sreesanth and then Ishant were promising. Dhoni turned Ishant into a completely defensive bowler. And he has erased all progress in fast bowling made by his predecessor.

Kohli might be very pro fast bowlers, but even he will have his work cut out because of the system. But even his limited support can be seen to make a difference. And once he is captain in all three formats and has the ear of the selectors I am hoping we will see improvements in bowling.  . 

I don't think that anyone truly has that. If only...

[New guy]

Fast bowlers have different temperament. They need to be handled with care. 

There is one consistent issue with Indian cricket - a fast bowler is uncovered or pops up on the scene. Initially, he is promising but then somehow loses it or turns in to a trundler. At times, the fast bowler is ignored when he is at his peak or when he could have benefited by being drafted early in to international cricket and then makes his debut when he is past his peak speed 

If these things are consistently being repeated throughout the history of Indian cricket, who is at fault? Is it the fast bowlers or the system? If it is the system, we are probably using wrong metrics to judge fast bowlers 

Based on the results that we have been getting, it would appear as if Ind has destroyed the fast bowling culture in its cricket. I don't know too many countries where Mark Ealham types of bowlers would be rated higher (and brainy) than someone who can bowl consistently at 145 kmph or faster and may be go for runs in the process 

May be our system is such that it is creating a conflict or confusion in the minds of fast bowlers. And they are in a neither here nor there mindset. .... For a few years, why can't we overlook the ER aspect of fast bowlers and celebrate things such as the fastest bowl bowled, wickets taken, how the batsman was hurried up, how the batsman could not even see that ball, how the batsman was bounced out, how much reverse swing the bowler was able to generate, etc. 

If India does not produce good and great fast bowlers, somewhere down the line it is our fault. That India has mediocre bowlers (or people are not too keen to take fast bowling) is probably because of how its cricketing culture has shaped up. .... If we do not change, who knows, even 20 years down the line cricket fans will be discussing how brainless a fast bowler is and why Ind cannot produce good fast bowlers .... To revive or build a fast bowling culture in India, persisting and giving confidence and freedom to the likes of Yadavs, Aarons, etc. is a small price to pay 

 

Very good post

 

The worst part is, Ganguly unearthed Zaheer and Pathan. Kumble and Dravid actually were helping the fast bowling go forward. We were seeing more exciting spells by fast bowlers and seam bowlers. RP, Sreesanth and then Ishant were promising. Dhoni turned Ishant into a completely defensive bowler. And he has erased all progress in fast bowling made by his predecessor.

Kohli might be very pro fast bowlers, but even he will have his work cut out because of the system. But even his limited support can be seen to make a difference. And once he is captain in all three formats and has the ear of the selectors I am hoping we will see improvements in bowling.  . 

[Mosher]

I was watching some random videos on youtube and came across this video. Watch Yadav's run-up in 2010. He used to run in much faster and as he approached the crease he used to put in a lot of effort. Check out the way he beats Pandey with a couple of really quick balls and edges flying away to 4. Compare it to his run-up these days. Any reason for his change in his run-up? Is this also a reason behind him bowling at a lesser pace?

 

[zen]

In the story of the hare and the tortoise, the tortoise won the race. But the truth is that the hare is faster. 

In stead of focusing on making the hare more focused, in India, we pick tortoises to run the races because they appear to be consistent. In the race, these tortoises come short when running against more focused hares from other countries. The hares in India probably have lost the hope. Despite being faster, they don't get to run the race or even worse have to pretend to be tortoises to be picked to run the race. 

To build the fast bowling culture in the country, anyone speaking or writing that a fast bowler leaked runs should be banned from watching and playing cricket 

Edited January 24, 2016 by rett

[express bowling]

Genuine fast bowling is hard , hard work. It is far more bodily taxing than the other disciplines. The risk of injury is much more. They generally have much shorter careers as well.

There is also the lingering uncertainty of an impending injury in their minds. Who knows when one will happen and they will cease to be genuine fast bowlers and become medium pacers. 

These factors need to be taken into consideration by captains, coaches, selectors etc.  and fast bowlers need to be encouraged and managed with far more professionalism and empathy. This is the case in all countries which have produced good quality fast bowlers.

 Interestingly... 95% of all strike bowlers among pacers , in test matches, have been either fast or had the ability to generate steep bounce by bowling with effort and hitting the deck hard....So... this species of bowlers are very important indeed.

[Vijy]

Genuine fast bowling is hard , hard work. It is far more bodily taxing than the other disciplines. The risk of injury is much more. They generally have much shorter careers as well.

There is also the lingering uncertainty of an impending injury in their minds. Who knows when one will happen and they will cease to be genuine fast bowlers and become medium pacers. 

These factors need to be taken into consideration by captains, coaches, selectors etc.  and fast bowlers need to be encouraged and managed with far more professionalism and empathy. This is the case in all countries which have produced good quality fast bowlers.

 Interestingly... 95% of all strike bowlers among pacers , in test matches, have been either fast or had the ability to generate steep bounce by bowling with effort and hitting the deck hard....So... this species of bowlers are very important indeed.

I would not put Hadlee or Mohd. Asif in either category, but the former was an indubitable ATG and the latter could also have become one.

[express bowling]

I would not put Hadlee or Mohd. Asif in either category, but the former was an indubitable ATG and the latter could also have become one.

They are few and far between...which is why I said around 95%. You would always find some exceptions among people with extraordinary skills.

Regarding Asif...there have been criticism by many experts that he has played 17 test matches out of his total 23 outside the sub-continent and deliberately missed those played in Pakistan. ( Only played 4 tests there ).

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/41411.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

If he had a full career with roughly equal matches home and away then he would not look like an ATG.  Just 23 test matches is anyway a small sample size.

[Vijy]

They are few and far between...which is why I said around 95%. You would always find some exceptions among people with extraordinary skills.

Regarding Asif...there have been criticism by many experts that he has played 17 test matches out of his total 23 outside the sub-continent and deliberately missed those played in Pakistan. ( Only played 4 tests there ).

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/41411.html?class=1;template=results;type=bowling

If he had a full career with roughly equal matches home and away then he would not look like an ATG.  Just 23 test matches is anyway a small sample size.

If I remember correctly, he played quite well in SC pitches - I remember some beautiful bowling against SL for instance. Besides, some SC pacers do well at home too (like Srinath for instance).

Along with Hadlee, you could also add Pollock - who did very well with his skill set, before he became a trundler after he lost pace and zip in later years. I think that the fraction might be 85-90% more realistically.

 

Pace isn't everything - just look at Mohd. Sami (he used to hit the 150s now and then, and could bowl sustained spells in the high 140s).

[zen]

If I remember correctly, he played quite well in SC pitches - I remember some beautiful bowling against SL for instance. Besides, some SC pacers do well at home too (like Srinath for instance).

Along with Hadlee, you could also add Pollock - who did very well with his skill set, before he became a trundler after he lost pace and zip in later years. I think that the fraction might be 85-90% more realistically.

 

Pace isn't everything - just look at Mohd. Sami (he used to hit the 150s now and then, and could bowl sustained spells in the high 140s).

Exceptions don't make a rule though. For one Md Sami, there are tons of trundlers who are not only ordinary but also lack pace. And Pak has much better examples of bowlers with pace being rated higher than our best trundlers 

Let's not forget that Kapil, who is also an example of an almost complete bowler, was considered great when he had pace. After he lost his pace, he could not do much relatively despite his skills 

 

Edited January 24, 2016 by rett

[Vijy]

Exceptions don't make a rule though. For one Md Sami, there are tons of trundlers who are not only ordinary but also lack pace. And Pak has much better examples of bowlers with pace being rated higher than our best trundlers 

Let's not forget that Kapil, who is also an example of an almost complete bowler, was considered great when he had pace. After he lost his pace, he could not do much relatively despite his skills 

 

Kapil was another example of someone who didn't have outight pace or steepling bounce as the earlier poster claimed. However, I agree that a minimum of some pace is reqd - around 135-140 kmph.