14 yr old school girl activist shot at in Swat Valley

[ravishingravi]

Spoke to a fellow physician from Carnegie Mellon Medical Center originally hailing from Karachi. He's totally convinced that this whole thing is one giant government conspiracy and Malala's family could be in on it from the beginning. Pretty shocking to see a well educated' date=' respected physician holding such conspiracy views.[/quote'] Not shocking any more. I think people often confuse academics with education.

[CSK Fan]

Spoke to a fellow physician from Carnegie Mellon Medical Center originally hailing from Karachi. He's totally convinced that this whole thing is one giant government conspiracy and Malala's family could be in on it from the beginning. Pretty shocking to see a well educated' date=' respected physician holding such conspiracy views.[/quote'] Thats why I am losing hope that Pak will ever come out of the quagmire they are in. Its scary the number of people who are so ready to believe these wacky theories than ever take responsibility for their own actions. Taliban has so much covert support. Can you imagine people believing the taliban over a 14 year old girl who was shot? Hasnt the Taliban killed many children in the past? Bombed girl schools? Yet people believe that Taliban and not a 14 year old girl? It looks like there is only 2 way forward for that country. Complete radicalization with mullahs and taliban crushing people and having a radical goverment in place, supporting by non-resodent Pakistanis who will happily live abroad in freedom and democarcy but will want an islamic nation back in Pakistan. Or, in the long run, the US actually attacking Pak, removing its nuclear weapons breaking the country into small pieces and then putting a care-taker goverment in place. I cannot think of a 3rd alternative. Its a simmering pot. If even educated people always look for enemy without, are not willing to accept that they are facing genuine internal problems, how can the country fix itself? Taliban kills many more in Pak than drones do. Yet you will see protests only against the drones A 3rd grade movie across the world will bring thousands on the street yet the Taliban can break every tenet of Islam and still be supported by most Pakistanis who wont call them non-muslims. How can such a country progress?

[Texy]

Thats why I am losing hope that Pak will ever come out of the quagmire they are in. Its scary the number of people who are so ready to believe these wacky theories than ever take responsibility for their own actions. Taliban has so much covert support. Can you imagine people believing the taliban over a 14 year old girl who was shot? Hasnt the Taliban killed many children in the past? Bombed girl schools? Yet people believe that Taliban and not a 14 year old girl? It looks like there is only 2 way forward for that country. Complete radicalization with mullahs and taliban crushing people and having a radical goverment in place, supporting by non-resodent Pakistanis who will happily live abroad in freedom and democarcy but will want an islamic nation back in Pakistan. Or, in the long run, the US actually attacking Pak, removing its nuclear weapons breaking the country into small pieces and then putting a care-taker goverment in place. I cannot think of a 3rd alternative. Its a simmering pot. If even educated people always look for enemy without, are not willing to accept that they are facing genuine internal problems, how can the country fix itself? Taliban kills many more in Pak than drones do. Yet you will see protests only against the drones A 3rd grade movie across the world will bring thousands on the street yet the Taliban can break every tenet of Islam and still be supported by most Pakistanis who wont call them non-muslims. How can such a country progress?

+1 That pretty much describes exactly how the mindset works in that country. The idea has been engraved since childhood that Pakistan is the beacon of Islamic torch and Muslims everywhere including India should follow that beacon. I still remember when Pakistan lost the 1st T20 WC to India, Shoaib Malik the captain apologized to "Muslims everywhere" for losing the title :facepalm:

[Crookbond]

+1 That pretty much describes exactly how the mindset works in that country. The idea has been engraved since childhood that Pakistan is the beacon of Islamic torch and Muslims everywhere including India should follow that beacon. I still remember when Pakistan lost the 1st T20 WC to India' date=' S[b']hoaib Malik the captain apologized to "Muslims everywhere" for losing the title :facepalm:

Irfan Pathan walked in next to collect the Man of the Match. :cantstop:

[EnterTheVoid]

Education masks ignorance, nothing new in that, has been that way since the beginning.

[panther]

Thats why I am losing hope that Pak will ever come out of the quagmire they are in. Its scary the number of people who are so ready to believe these wacky theories than ever take responsibility for their own actions. Taliban has so much covert support. Can you imagine people believing the taliban over a 14 year old girl who was shot? Hasnt the Taliban killed many children in the past? Bombed girl schools? Yet people believe that Taliban and not a 14 year old girl? It looks like there is only 2 way forward for that country. Complete radicalization with mullahs and taliban crushing people and having a radical goverment in place, supporting by non-resodent Pakistanis who will happily live abroad in freedom and democarcy but will want an islamic nation back in Pakistan. Or, in the long run, the US actually attacking Pak, removing its nuclear weapons breaking the country into small pieces and then putting a care-taker goverment in place. I cannot think of a 3rd alternative. Its a simmering pot. If even educated people always look for enemy without, are not willing to accept that they are facing genuine internal problems, how can the country fix itself? Taliban kills many more in Pak than drones do. Yet you will see protests only against the drones A 3rd grade movie across the world will bring thousands on the street yet the Taliban can break every tenet of Islam and still be supported by most Pakistanis who wont call them non-muslims. How can such a country progress?

point 1 will lead to point 2 anyway.

[Crookbond]

I miss my classmates from Pakistan, says Malala http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/i-miss-my-classmates-from-pakistan-says-malala/article4528763.ece

Malala Yousafzai, the Pakistani teenager shot in the head by the Taliban, has returned to school for the first time since she was targeted. The 15-year-old joined other girls at Edgbaston High School for Girls in Birmingham for her first day back at school on Tuesday, said Edelman, the public relations agency handling her media relations. Malala was airlifted to Britain for treatment after Taliban gunman shot her on October 9, 2012, while on her way home from school in north-western Pakistan. Malala was released in February from the hospital that was treating her for her injuries. Doctors said she was recovering well after receiving skull reconstruction and cochlear implant surgeries. In a statement, Malala said she was excited to return to school and that she wanted “all girls in the world to have this basic opportunity.” “I miss my classmates from Pakistan very much, but I am looking forward to meeting my teachers and making new friends here in Birmingham,” she added.

[Muloghonto]

Way to put words in my mouth man. I never said that. I said that a possible reason to the "likes/dislikes" on the video were due to the fact that it the comments were from his supporters. Care to tell me how many comments or likes/dislkes you found ? Several hundred maybe ? That shows the majority of Pakistan are extremists ? Mind you I think your way of figuring out the mindset of a country is extremely foolish and I'm just trying to talk to you in your way of understanding. Seriously, you are spouting so much nonsense right now thats its hard to keep track, you are calling Pakistanis hypocrites but what about you? You choose to carefully ignore the aspects of Pakistani society that condemns extremism but highlight the part that does not. I am a Pakistani and I go to Pakistan frequently and I am telling you what I have seen/heard/interacted with on a first-hand basis, so all your " majority are extremists " comments have no value to me as you have no idea about the ground reality in Pakistan. About your comment on the Pakistani army being ass-whooped by the Taliban...I won't even bother answering that, and it just shows to me that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Educate yourself on what is going on instead of creating hypothesis in your head and spewing them as facts. I don't care if you have an opinion but don't present it to me as a fact.

I am sorry but i disagree. I have lived in the gulf before, i can say with full conviction that 95% of Muslims are extremists by the dictionary definition of the word. Unfortunately, the word 'extremist' has been conflated with criminals who are actual murderers and killers since 9/11 and we tend to think that extremist = those who wanna kill other people/blow them up because of their hypothetical and baseless God. infact, extremists are those who would deny common grounds and rights of movement, opportunity and free will to people on the basis of hypothetical beleifs. By that (oxford dictionary) definition, 90% plus muslims are extremists, because they will subject us ( the non muslims) to Sharia, which by definition is discriminatory against non-believers, on the basis of 'he said-she said, its in a book' beleifs, not facts, if given a chance. Basically, by the dictionary definition of it and the extrapolation of it, an extremist muslim is anyone who believes in imposing sharia on society. The killers and murders and genociders are simply the 'actors' of more heinous nature for the extremist group as a whole.

[Muloghonto]

Thats why I am losing hope that Pak will ever come out of the quagmire they are in. Its scary the number of people who are so ready to believe these wacky theories than ever take responsibility for their own actions. Taliban has so much covert support. Can you imagine people believing the taliban over a 14 year old girl who was shot? Hasnt the Taliban killed many children in the past? Bombed girl schools? Yet people believe that Taliban and not a 14 year old girl? It looks like there is only 2 way forward for that country. Complete radicalization with mullahs and taliban crushing people and having a radical goverment in place, supporting by non-resodent Pakistanis who will happily live abroad in freedom and democarcy but will want an islamic nation back in Pakistan. Or, in the long run, the US actually attacking Pak, removing its nuclear weapons breaking the country into small pieces and then putting a care-taker goverment in place. I cannot think of a 3rd alternative. Its a simmering pot. If even educated people always look for enemy without, are not willing to accept that they are facing genuine internal problems, how can the country fix itself? Taliban kills many more in Pak than drones do. Yet you will see protests only against the drones A 3rd grade movie across the world will bring thousands on the street yet the Taliban can break every tenet of Islam and still be supported by most Pakistanis who wont call them non-muslims. How can such a country progress?

Third alternative is systematic destruction of Islam. Shouldnt be that hard in the future, as Islam's #1 strategy of self-sustainance is imposing ban on freedom of thinking and speech. It has propagated itself, much like the old Christians propagated themselves (prior to Martin Luther) by controlling information. We are not allowed to debate openly such ideas as validity of the notion of God, the veracity of the claims of god, the idea of 'what if God is actually Satan posing as God, ergo, all abrahamic religions are false' , whether mohammed was a man worthy of respect or not based on his actions, etc. Freedom of speach, information, etc. destroys such systematic hypothetical dictums imposed on society and christianity found it out with the reformations. Sure, it took 300 years in Europe to progress from 'Taliban-esque' christianity to modern day western society, where if you are christian, you are 'just another guy with a set of beliefs that has no impact in the general focus of society or impedes another' but then again, they didnt have the internet back then. The Islamists are not foolish- misguided in their beleif and haughty in their egoic faith, but they are smart enough to realize what the internet represents- the impending doom of islamic societies and already, the effects of 'we will do what we want, not what some book wants us to do' is being felt in the topical levels of arab societies. And its barely been 20 years since internet has been around en masse. As such, they are afraid of their impending doom as a society and i can only hope the destruction of islamic societies come within my lifetime. But have 'faith' in humanity my friend. We have ultimately overthrown tyrannical social systems when they ran out of use. The information that is represented by the internet cannot be understated, especially since it affords a level of discourse that is hard to ultimately get rid of. All it needs, is a little push from us, to plant the ideas of objectivity, subjectivity and empiric reality in their minds.

[panther]

Third alternative is systematic destruction of Islam. Shouldnt be that hard in the future, as Islam's #1 strategy of self-sustainance is imposing ban on freedom of thinking and speech. It has propagated itself, much like the old Christians propagated themselves (prior to Martin Luther) by controlling information. We are not allowed to debate openly such ideas as validity of the notion of God, the veracity of the claims of god, the idea of 'what if God is actually Satan posing as God, ergo, all abrahamic religions are false' , whether mohammed was a man worthy of respect or not based on his actions, etc. Freedom of speach, information, etc. destroys such systematic hypothetical dictums imposed on society and christianity found it out with the reformations. Sure, it took 300 years in Europe to progress from 'Taliban-esque' christianity to modern day western society, where if you are christian, you are 'just another guy with a set of beliefs that has no impact in the general focus of society or impedes another' but then again, they didnt have the internet back then. The Islamists are not foolish- misguided in their beleif and haughty in their egoic faith, but they are smart enough to realize what the internet represents- the impending doom of islamic societies and already, the effects of 'we will do what we want, not what some book wants us to do' is being felt in the topical levels of arab societies. And its barely been 20 years since internet has been around en masse. As such, they are afraid of their impending doom as a society and i can only hope the destruction of islamic societies come within my lifetime. But have 'faith' in humanity my friend. We have ultimately overthrown tyrannical social systems when they ran out of use. The information that is represented by the internet cannot be understated, especially since it affords a level of discourse that is hard to ultimately get rid of. All it needs, is a little push from us, to plant the ideas of objectivity, subjectivity and empiric reality in their minds.

Lets see last 50 years secular/ dictatorships iran, iraq, egypt, yemen now syria potentially etc all have more islamic government in the last 30 years or so then they had previously.

[Muloghonto]

Lets see last 50 years secular/ dictatorships iran, iraq, egypt, yemen now syria potentially etc all have more islamic government in the last 30 years or so then they had previously.

last 50 years mean nothing really. the challenge to Islam comes in the form of the internet. Information deregulation and accessibility that doesnt exist in pre-internet islamic world. Its starting to germinate and in 50 years, you will have a lot more 'muslim in name only' muslims than the fundoos. It is already happening, we just need more patience to liberate your societies from the clutches of a hypothetical religious system which doesnt have any proof and replace it with a consensus based system, where law is what majorty decides, not what some 1500 year old book decides.

[panther]

last 50 years mean nothing really. the challenge to Islam comes in the form of the internet. Information deregulation and accessibility that doesnt exist in pre-internet islamic world. Its starting to germinate and in 50 years' date=' you will have a lot more 'muslim in name only' muslims than the fundoos. It is already happening, we just need more patience to liberate your societies from the clutches of a hypothetical religious system which doesnt have any proof and replace it with a consensus based system, where law is what majorty decides, not what some 1500 year old book decides.[/quote'] :hysterical: It will never happen Ok let me take you only a year back the mb won in egypt which is one of the more educated muslims countries in the world with a lot of internet users.

[Muloghonto]

:hysterical: It will never happen Ok let me take you only a year back the mb won in egypt which is one of the more educated muslims countries in the world with a lot of internet users.

the change i am talking of, is not brought in overnight. It is brought in through generations. The biggest reason people are intractible in their hypothetical beleifs, is because they are afraid of disappointing their parents/relatives and their children, not to mention, the real consequences. This generation will not be the one who rejects sharia or such crimes against humanity. This generation will simply be less entrenched than the one before due to internet (ie, the generation that were teens/pre-teens in the mid 1990s). They will have a few who are 'muslim on surface' and have read enough to question their faith. All such avenues exist online only for these muslim nations. But when these few bring up their children, some of them will remain true to their integrity and teach their children the fact that it is all 'he said, she said, hocus pocus nonsense'. And then, the law of exponential growth takes off. As i said, this change is being felt very topically already - the penetration of 'we do what we want' is already noticable in fashion. Plenty of egyptian ladies FYI out there who reject the 'walking tent' fashion prescribed by sharia. As i said, it took Europe over 300 years to get to this stage,it wont happen overnight for middle east/pakistan either. But thanks to the internet, what took 300-500 years in times past, will probably take 100-150 years in the future to achieve. But sooner or later, Islam will collapse, as society is losing its ability to restrict information to its citizens. As Islam depends on lack of dialogue and free thinking to keep its dominance in society, over time, it will lose its influence, as information gets even harder to keep from people.

[panther]

the change i am talking of, is not brought in overnight. It is brought in through generations. The biggest reason people are intractible in their hypothetical beleifs, is because they are afraid of disappointing their parents/relatives and their children, not to mention, the real consequences. This generation will not be the one who rejects sharia or such crimes against humanity. This generation will simply be less entrenched than the one before due to internet (ie, the generation that were teens/pre-teens in the mid 1990s). They will have a few who are 'muslim on surface' and have read enough to question their faith. All such avenues exist online only for these muslim nations. But when these few bring up their children, some of them will remain true to their integrity and teach their children the fact that it is all 'he said, she said, hocus pocus nonsense'. And then, the law of exponential growth takes off. As i said, this change is being felt very topically already - the penetration of 'we do what we want' is already noticable in fashion. Plenty of egyptian ladies FYI out there who reject the 'walking tent' fashion prescribed by sharia. As i said, it took Europe over 300 years to get to this stage,it wont happen overnight for middle east/pakistan either. But thanks to the internet, what took 300-500 years in times past, will probably take 100-150 years in the future to achieve. But sooner or later, Islam will collapse, as society is losing its ability to restrict information to its citizens. As Islam depends on lack of dialogue and free thinking to keep its dominance in society, over time, it will lose its influence, as information gets even harder to keep from people.

Trust me the more Islam is attacked the more it will grow.

[Tiger80]

last 50 years mean nothing really. the challenge to Islam comes in the form of the internet. Information deregulation and accessibility that doesnt exist in pre-internet islamic world. Its starting to germinate and in 50 years' date=' you will have a lot more 'muslim in name only' muslims than the fundoos. It is already happening, we just need more patience to liberate your societies from the clutches of a hypothetical religious system which doesnt have any proof and replace it with a consensus based system, where law is what majorty decides, not what some 1500 year old book decides.[/quote'] I don't think you are right.A lot of hardcore islamic activities goes from Europe , many people have started calling London as Londonistan.By your logic muslims born in UK should have been secular but what i read on internet is that there are many british born muslims which become more hardcore that their parents

[Muloghonto]

Trust me the more Islam is attacked the more it will grow.

It will only grow (and it has over the last 1500 years) via ignorance. The growth factor of Islam is a function of muslims making a lotta babies and total information control that challenges the fundamental concepts of Islam. It has been shown, with comprehensive evidence, that education of women leads to falling birthrates. Since muslim societies are getting more educated (for their women) and their birthrates are declining, ergo, islamic birthrate will decline in the future. And the internet has provided the means to challenge the very concept of Islam and religion, the notion of one-God, etc. None of these 'challenges' are new- people like Schropenhaur, Neitzche, etc. have already established the fallacies of a 'one god religion' and the logic fail of taking an old book to be absolute. The internet will destroy Islam. I cannot see how it wont, since Islam is sustained solely by imposing ignorance over the Koran and mohammed. It exists because you are not allowed to ask certain questions, not allowed to say certain things. Ie, information control. Internet destroys information control: you are the proof of it, since prior to the internet, it was orders of magnitude harder for me to tell a muslim that his religion is bunk. now, it is just a few keystrokes away and they are able to read it. The effect of logic is a pretty powerful one and cannot be denied by humanity forever. It almost always destroys protectionist systems based on hypothetical values sustained by imposing information control. What Islam is experiencing, is the denial mode- christianity also went through this and became 'a bit more hardcore' as a reaction to the reformation of Martin Luther, which was basically taking the book out of the hands of the clergy and translating it, putting it in the hands of the people, ie, basically destroying information monopoly. As such, it will go through the same stages till it collapses, the current stage is denial. 20 years from now, the denial will morph into acknowledgement of the problem and so on and so forth.

[Muloghonto]

I don't think you are right.A lot of hardcore islamic activities goes from Europe ' date=' many people have started calling London as Londonistan.By your logic muslims born in UK should have been secular but what i read on internet is that there are many british born muslims which become more hardcore that their parents[/quote'] For every three muslim in Britain who believes in sharia, i can find you another who doesnt and doesnt even care. The case of the Canadian muslim is even more emphatic victory for logic and secularism. British muslims have regressed a bit, primarily due to the 'wave effect' of immigration from selected locales (a different model of immigration exists in canada/US) but compared to their folks back home, there are far more 'muslims in name only' British, per capita, than Pakis, arabs, etc. And nobody said that this fight to bring freedom and self determination to the muslim world, to make it a non-muslim world, would be a linear progression for us. A back-and-forth see-saw battle is to be expected, but i cannot see us losing this in the long term. We beat one hypothetical God, his son and his imposed system out of society, we will do so for another hypothetical God, his prophet and his imposed system.

[Tiger80]

For every three muslim in Britain who believes in sharia, i can find you another who doesnt and doesnt even care. The case of the Canadian muslim is even more emphatic victory for logic and secularism. British muslims have regressed a bit, primarily due to the 'wave effect' of immigration from selected locales (a different model of immigration exists in canada/US) but compared to their folks back home, there are far more 'muslims in name only' British, per capita, than Pakis, arabs, etc. And nobody said that this fight to bring freedom and self determination to the muslim world, to make it a non-muslim world, would be a linear progression for us. A back-and-forth see-saw battle is to be expected, but i cannot see us losing this in the long term. We beat one hypothetical God, his son and his imposed system out of society, we will do so for another hypothetical God, his prophet and his imposed system.

Nobody knows what is going to happen in future.internet alone is not going to do anything. A large majority of population just use internet for gup , shup , facebook , ***.It is just tiny minority that is interested in reading some philosphical stuff The western liberal societies have embraced the culture of eat drink and marry , tommorow you have to die culture which itself is very destructive.There is no value for children , are just burden on your pleasures .So who knows how these societies will survive.Russia at present is doing everything which is considered as backward.They have given power to church ,not supporting gay rights , banning abortions.They just know that its now matter of survival if they don't increase birth rate then in few years parts of Russia will fall to non russians and this they want to avoid at any cost Islam on the other hand still have healthy birth rate so Europeans will keep importing young muslims do their menial jobs Don't be so sure of future , its always very uncertain. Nobody thought that capitaliist communist war will automatically end without any bloodshed in 90s and west vs islam will be the new game that world will play

[Crookbond]

Tiger80, Did you know that the Internet has indeed play a major role to play in the Arab Spring?

[Muloghonto]

Nobody knows what is going to happen in future.internet alone is not going to do anything. A large majority of population just use internet for gup , shup , facebook , ***.It is just tiny minority that is interested in reading some philosphical stuff The western liberal societies have embraced the culture of eat drink and marry , tommorow you have to die culture which itself is very destructive.There is no value for children , are just burden on your pleasures .So who knows how these societies will survive.Russia at present is doing everything which is considered as backward.They have given power to church ,not supporting gay rights , banning abortions.They just know that its now matter of survival if they don't increase birth rate then in few years parts of Russia will fall to non russians and this they want to avoid at any cost Islam on the other hand still have healthy birth rate so Europeans will keep importing young muslims do their menial jobs Don't be so sure of future , its always very uncertain. Nobody thought that capitaliist communist war will automatically end without any bloodshed in 90s and west vs islam will be the new game that world will play

1. Don't worry, the 'cheap muslims' is an overblown thing. The largest immigrant communities in Europe are South American and total 'non muslim' immigration into Europe outstrips the Islamic movements into Europe. 2. We shall see. One side (western+india/far east) is about free will & determinism, the other(islam) is about 'dont ask questions, just follow'. we know where my vote is .