Clarke Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Today marks the 50th anniversary of the brief & bitter war we fought (and lost) against our north-eastern neighbours in 1962. Please share your thoughts/stories heard from the elders. I recall our school teachers telling us about severe food shortages during the war. There was a virtual fast all across the country one particular day of the week, maybe in the evening. I also heard about ill equipped soldiers wearing regular canvas shoes in those treacherous conditions while facing wave after wave of never ending Chinese soldiers. Goes without saying, we must remember the ultimate sacrifice made by courageous men that inspired the memorable song [ame= Mangeshkar Live Aye mere watan ke logo - YouTube[/ame]
rahulrulezz Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Wow didn't know u belong from that era. Got this new respect for u. Would like to know more about what was the atmosphere like among general public. When we lost, did the media openly accept our loss. Also more interesting would be to hear about 1965 n 1971 n peoples reaction around u. Any stories
DomainK Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Today marks the 50th anniversary of the brief & bitter war we fought (and lost) against our north-eastern neighbours in 1962. Please share your thoughts/stories heard from the elders. I recall our school teachers telling us about severe food shortages during the war. There was a virtual fast all across the country one particular day of the week, maybe in the evening. I also heard about ill equipped soldiers wearing regular canvas shoes in those treacherous conditions while facing wave after wave of never ending Chinese soldiers. Goes without saying, we must remember the ultimate sacrifice made by courageous men that inspired the memorable song The war was extremely ill managed by India. Our soldiers died more due to lack of food, hygiene and equipment than to Chinese bullets. It was a huge misjudgment by Nehru against everyone's advice and he famously commented "I was stabbed in the back". You just never trust the Chinese.
Number Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Not just the government were caught unaware of all that was planned by Chinese, we were fighting an army which outnumbered us in big ratio, with outdated weapons and even that in shortage. On top of that almost none of the battalions which we had to engage in the direct war were trained to fight in the mountains or high altitude. Our soldiers bore the brunt of all this mismanagement. And even then these soldiers are hardly remembered compared to 65 or 71. here is an article on Rezang La battle where we lost 114 soldiers although they fought out of their skin and caused heavy casualties on Chinese side (more than 1000). http://tehelka.com/story_main54.asp?filename=Ne131012LAST.asp
DomainK Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Not just the government were caught unaware of all that was planned by Chinese' date= we were fighting an army which outnumbered us in big ratio, with outdated weapons and even that in shortage. On top of that almost none of the battalions which we had to engage in the direct war were trained to fight in the mountains or high altitude. Our soldiers bore the brunt of all this mismanagement. And even then these soldiers are hardly remembered compared to 65 or 71. here is an article on Rezang La battle where we lost 114 soldiers although they fought out of their skin and caused heavy casualties on Chinese side (more than 1000). http://tehelka.com/story_main54.asp?filename=Ne131012LAST.asp There were some signs that we deliberately overlooked. If I remember correct, the Chinese occupied a small Indian village prior to the main attack. We did not even utter a word of protest which was highly encouraging for the Chinese. Nehru's famous statement from that time: "Ek banzar zameek ke tukde ke liye hum apne dosto se ladh nahi sakte" - " We can't fight our friends over a barren piece of land".
jairamesh Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Better late then never.. http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/nation-pays-homage-to-1962-martyrs-for-first-time/article4015960.ece?homepage=true Nation pays homage to 1962 martyrs for first time Paying homage to soldiers who fought in the 1962 Indo-China war, Defence Minister A.K. Antony on Saturday ruled out any possibility of the repeat of the war and said armed forces were confident of protecting the country against any such threat. This is the first time that the Indian defence establishment has honoured the dead and participants of the 1962 war officially.
jairamesh Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 It was an opportunistic attempt by Chinese Communists to grab more land during China's invasion of Independent Tibet and it's subsequent annexation. Probably post-World War II's biggest land grab exercise, which is still a taboo issue in China. This issue is going to rear it's ugly head when the next Dalai Lama is selected, which could be from India.
vayuu1 Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 There were some signs that we deliberately overlooked. If I remember correct' date=' the Chinese occupied a small Indian village prior to the main attack. We did not even utter a word of protest which was highly encouraging for the Chinese. Nehru's famous statement from that time: [b']"Ek banzar zameek ke tukde ke liye hum apne dosto se ladh nahi sakte" - " We can't fight our friends over a barren piece of land".But jp Narayan completely pawned Nehru with his reply ,he said : "tumhara sar Bhi to banjar hai ,kya use Bhi chiniyo ko tohfe mein doge"Nehru was like WTF has hit me.
Lord Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 But jp Narayan completely pawned Nehru with his reply ' date='he said : "tumhara sar Bhi to banjar hai ,kya use Bhi chiniyo ko tohfe mein doge"Nehru was like WTF has hit me.[/quote'] :haha:
DomainK Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 But jp Narayan completely pawned Nehru with his reply ' date='he said : "tumhara sar Bhi to banjar hai ,kya use Bhi chiniyo ko tohfe mein doge"Nehru was like WTF has hit me.[/quote'] Quite right, legendary reply. There were many who had warned Nehru at that time not to trust the Chinese blindly. Nehru however had just come back from what he considered a very successful tour of China with reassurances of no first attack from China. He really considered them friends.
The Outsider Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 It was an opportunistic attempt by Chinese Communists to grab more land during China's invasion of Independent Tibet and it's subsequent annexation. Probably post-World War II's biggest land grab exercise, which is still a taboo issue in China. This issue is going to rear it's ugly head when the next Dalai Lama is selected, which could be from India. It wasn't a land grab exercise - when the British left, they left lines on the map. That does not mean anything - China also had different lines on their map and occupied the land earlier than India did.
PaceAttack Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Mao ordered 1962 war to regain CPC control: Chinese strategist Beijing: China's late strongman Mao Zedong had launched the 1962 war with India to regain control of the ruling Communist Party after the debacle of his 'Great Leap Forward' movement in which millions had perished. This was stated by top Chinese strategist Wang Jisi, adding a new dimension to the conflict ahead of the 50th anniversary of the war on Saturday. "The war was a tragedy. It was not necessary," Wang, Dean of the School of International Studies at Peking University and member of the Foreign Policy Advisory Committee of the Chinese Foreign Ministry, told PTI here. Wang said he differed with the perception of many Chinese political and strategic analysts that the Chinese victory ended India's claims on the border and brought about long-term peace. "I think we need to do some research. One anecdotal story I heard was because of Mao's own fear of his position in China in 1962 that he launched a war," said Wang, who according to senior Indian diplomats was often consulted by the Chinese leadership. "In 1962, three years after the Great Leap Forward (GLF), Mao lost power and authority. He was no longer the head of the state and he went back to the so-called second line. The explanation given to us at that time was that he was more interested in ... Revolution and so on," he said ahead of the 50th anniversary of the Sino-India conflict on October 20. GLF was a mass campaign launched by Mao to use China's vast population to rapidly transform the country from an agrarian economy to a modern Communist society. Mao ordered 1962 war to regain CPC control: Chinese strategist The movement turned out to be a catastrophe for China as millions of people perished in violent purges weakening Mao's position as supreme leader of the ruling Communist Party of China (CPC) and he was sidelined. "Naturally he (Mao) lost control of number of practical issues. So he wanted to testify and show he was still in power, especially of the military. So he called the commander in Tibet and asked Zhang are you confident you can win the war with India?" Wang said. The name Zhang referred to Zhang Guohua, the then PLA commander of the Tibet Regiment. "The Commander said, 'Yes Mao, we can easily win the war'. Mao said 'go ahead and do that'. The purpose was to show that he was personally in control of the military. So it had little to do with territorial dispute, (may be) something to do with Tibet but not necessarily," according to Wang, who was also associated with the Institute of International Strategic Studies of Party School of the CPC. Mao ordered 1962 war to regain CPC control: Chinese strategist Wang's version broadly supports excerpts from a book 'The Red Wall's Testimony', which were published in the official Chinese language media here sometime back. The strategist believes that most of the wars fought under the CPC leadership had strong links with domestic crises. "Everything China did in the border war with Soviet Union was triggered by domestic crisis in 1969" and so was 1979 war with Vietnam which was launched partly because Mao's successor Deng Xiaoping wanted to emerge as top leader, he said. Asked whether he was convinced that domestic issues, more than territorial ambitions, prompted Mao to launch the war against India, Wang said "Yes yes I buy that theory because I looked at other episodes of history. "The general conclusion is that (India-China) border war was neither based on real interest in getting territory nor solving territorial dispute." Asserting that China did not gain much out of the war, Wang said he was told by a top Chinese diplomat who served in India that the "war was totally unnecessary". "We did not achieve anything and the actual control (at the borders) remained almost the same. China did not gain any territory," he said. When pointed out that China has taken over Aksai Chin bordering Xinjiang, regarded as strategic by India, he said "in the East (Arunachal Pradesh) we did not gain anything. Scholars should do some more research on the war. It will be fascinating." About possibility of an agreement between the two countries, Wang significantly said the two countries should settle for status quo and seal the agreement. "I think it (the border deal) can be achieved. Simply we recognise the status quo. Of course the Indians are very dissatisfied with the situation in Aksai Chin, so on and so forth. But you cannot fight another war to get it back." The status quo was first proposed by Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping, who succeeded Mao, but subsequently it was highlighted much by the Chinese officials in the last 15 rounds of border talks between the two countries. "I hope we can sign a treaty based on the actual control lines. More difficulty lay on your (Indian) side not our side," Wang said. He said the agreement could be reached with a "little bit of give and take just to show that we have negotiated to best interests of all sides and achieved something give and take but not like China giving Aksai Chin and India giving Eastern part," he said. http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/mao-ordered-1962-war-to-regain-cpc-control-chinese-strategist_806153.html
Clarke Posted October 20, 2012 Author Posted October 20, 2012 Wow didn't know u belong from that era. Got this new respect for u. Would like to know more about what was the atmosphere like among general public. When we lost' date=' did the media openly accept our loss. Also more interesting would be to hear about 1965 n 1971 n peoples reaction around u. Any stories[/quote'] I heard some of the mentioned statements from our Hindi teacher in the 90s when i was in primary school. She must be around 50 then which means she was able to experience the state of the nation first hand during the conflict.
The Outsider Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 I heard some of the mentioned statements from our Hindi teacher in the 90s when i was in primary school. She must be around 50 then which means she was able to experience the state of the nation first hand during the conflict. My uncle was deployed in the '62 war in Aksai Chin. He has some horrific stories to tell about the kind of equipment Indian soldiers had. He might be exaggerating a bit given his first hand involvement, but I believe 90% of his description. Indian soldiers had canvas boots at 15000 feet and rifles which had never been tested at such high altitudes. They did not even have sleeping bags but used to lug around holdalls as their bedding. According to him it was a miracle that China stopped at Aksai Chin because Indian defenses were so shattered and ill equipped for a high altitude battle that China could have easily taken over the entire Jammu and Kashmir and India would not have been able to do anything. The suffering of soldiers and their near ones was perceptible throughout the country at the time. It was a major frack up by Nehru to try and recapture the land with such an ill equipped force.
The Outsider Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Wow didn't know u belong from that era. Got this new respect for u. Would like to know more about what was the atmosphere like among general public. When we lost' date=' did the media openly accept our loss. Also more interesting would be to hear about 1965 n 1971 n peoples reaction around u. Any stories[/quote'] All 3 of my father's sisters got married to Army officers and given my father was the youngest in his family all 3 were deployed in one war or the other or more than one. I don't believe everything they say because first hand involvement leads to some degree of prejudice, but more or less their accounts seem accurate. I can't vouch for anything in the following paragraphs because they are just anecdotes related to me by them. In the '62 war, the initial reaction of the country was divided between euphoric and surprise. There was a segment of the population which felt that China's incursion on "our land" was meant to be answered by force and there was a larger segment of the country which was surprised at the decision to go to war over barren land with completely ill equipped forces. There were editorials comparing human life with 20000 feet mountains where even mountain goats find it hard to survive. I've already described the pitiful conditions Indian soldiers fought under. It was one of the biggest blunders of independent India in my opinion. The '65 war was much more planned an better executed. The Pakistani operation to infiltrate Kashmir was well known while they were doing it and India smartly waited till they launched an army attack. But by then India already knew this and had deployed strategic forces in J&K. This war's success is attributed in a major part to India's intelligence service and the support of local Kashmiris. However, there were accounts of India killing spies without a trial, most of the time at gun point which are largely true. The '71 war, was officially started by Pakistan by having their air force bomb Indian land, but there is no denying that India was supporting an insurgency in Bangladesh. Indira Gandhi wanted to prove to the world that Pakistan's existence as a Muslim state is a sham and they would not be able to unite even their own Muslims. There was no way India was going to lose this war unless there was involvement from other countries. US almost did so by floating submarines in the Indian Ocean but Nehru's past good terms with Russia meant that they were being tailgated. The quickness of the war and ceasefire sometimes hides the struggles of Bangladeshi citizens for years. India definitely had a part to play in the initiation of this war despite it being officially started by Pakistan. Many pundits felt that India let Pakistan off too easy in this war, but India had supposedly promised Russia that it would not leverage victory to gain land for their support in the Indian Ocean face off.
suraj Posted October 20, 2012 Posted October 20, 2012 Embarrassing moment in history for India - Indo-China war
vayuu1 Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Embarrassing moment in history for India - Indo-China war Not really ,I agree it was painful ,but it was an important lesson,coz it made us think about our security and made us better prepared for future wars,embarrassing moment was operation bluestar ,when military went inside golden temple premises.
suraj Posted October 21, 2012 Posted October 21, 2012 Not really ' date='I agree it was painful ,but it was an important lesson,coz it made us think about our security and made us better prepared for future wars,embarrassing moment was operation bluestar ,[b']when military went inside golden temple premises.[/QUOTE] I am curious- you think that a move to flush out separatists ( however unpopular with the religious fanatics) was an embarrassing moment for the nation vs. losing a war to a foreign nation, really?? IMHO if people are concerned about armed forces entering a place of worship then they should first make sure they are not hoarding weapons and terrorists in that place of worship
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