R Ashwin, A crap Test Bowler?

[jatinder]

Drop ashwin and bring some raw fresh talent spinner . Donot bring amit mishra ,harbhajan singh , Jadeja .

[Detonator]

@ sabby & rkt - I have to agree with both of you. What I m afraid is, playing umesh/bhuvi could backfire too. As I already said, they ve faced much superior pacers in the nets so I don't think our pacers would threaten them. Let's wait for the game and watch.

[Marut]

Whether it is Ashwin or somebody else, India has to go with one spinner against SA. SA batsmen are damn good against pace bowling because they are used to facing classy pace bowlers in the nets. Seeing off an additional pace bowler is no big deal for their batsmen. Spin bowling is not as effective in SA as in India, and South Africa play spin well, but spin is always a better surprise weapon against some of their lesser batsmen than pace.

[rkt.india]

@ sabby & rkt - I have to agree with both of you. What I m afraid is, playing umesh/bhuvi could backfire too. As I already said, they ve faced much superior pacers in the nets so I don't think our pacers would threaten them. Let's wait for the game and watch.

Same inferior pacers bowled them out at 244 in first innings here, 84 in 2006, 131 in 2010 at Durban. If conditions suit pacers, we should play pacers. Spinners are not going to do any damage.

[putrevus]

Same inferior pacers bowled them out at 244 in first innings here' date=' 84 in 2006, 131 in 2010 at Durban. If conditions suit pacers, we should play pacers. Spinners are not going to do any damage.[/quote'] bhajji took 4 wickets in that 131, if ashwin and his chum Dhoni think he is doing fine with this holding job , he will be out of the team soon and even dhobi will not be able to save his ass. Ashwin has not proved that he could do the job against good batting sides even in India. That said I still will play one spinner in Jadeja and hope he does that job

[Marut]

bhajji took 4 wickets in that 131, if ashwin and his chum Dhoni think he is doing fine with this holding job , he will be out of the team soon and even dhobi will not be able to save his ass. Ashwin has not proved that he could do the job against good batting sides even in India. That said I still will play one spinner in Jadeja and hope he does that job

These are exceptions for Indian spinners outside Asia. Even Kumble needed many tours to become effective outside Asia. On his first tour to Australia, Kumble often went wickeless and he finished the series with a bowling average of 90 at a strike rate of 175.6. Replacing Ashwin for one bad outing is ok, but the replacement is very likely to be flogged as well. At least Ashwin bowled very tight and gave nothing away, though he was not lucky enough to get a wicket.

[NareshK]

Ajmal bowled 40 odd overs and gave away 140 runs and picked no wickets here in Joburg. Did he get dropped ? Wanderers is a wicket which doesnt help spinners and you can hardly be surprised if spinners dont pick wickets there. He did a good containing job but will do better when wickets help spinners.

[rkt.india]

bhajji took 4 wickets in that 131, if ashwin and his chum Dhoni think he is doing fine with this holding job , he will be out of the team soon and even dhobi will not be able to save his ass. Ashwin has not proved that he could do the job against good batting sides even in India. That said I still will play one spinner in Jadeja and hope he does that job

Apart from Amla, those 4 were Dale Steyn, Paul Harris and Tsosobe. This has been made a big deal since then.

[rkt.india]

Ajmal bowled 40 odd overs and gave away 140 runs and picked no wickets here in Joburg. Did he get dropped ? Wanderers is a wicket which doesnt help spinners and you can hardly be surprised if spinners dont pick wickets there. He did a good containing job but will do better when wickets help spinners.

Ajmal is a premier spin bowler who has proven record of taking wickets overseas and Pak plays with 5 bowlers as Hafeez plays as 2nd or 3rd spinner as needed and takes wickets too. Ajmal never looked as ineffective as Ashwin.

[rkt.india]

These are exceptions for Indian spinners outside Asia. Even Kumble needed many tours to become effective outside Asia. On his first tour to Australia, Kumble often went wickeless and he finished the series with a bowling average of 90 at a strike rate of 175.6. Replacing Ashwin for one bad outing is ok, but the replacement is very likely to be flogged as well. At least Ashwin bowled very tight and gave nothing away, though he was not lucky enough to get a wicket.

Replacement should be a pacer.

[NareshK]

SA batsmen play seamers very well and B Kumar or Umesh will be easy to handle for them as they are used to playing Steyn, Morkel, Philander etc in nets. If fourth seamer also goes for runs, it will be hard to put any pressure on their batsmen. We need a spinner along with 3 seamers to have a good attack. I dont think Jadeja has the variations or flight to trouble test batsmen in SA conditions. He will be much easier to handle than Ashwin and will only hold the runs at best.

[NareshK]

Ajmal is a premier spin bowler who has proven record of taking wickets overseas and Pak plays with 5 bowlers as Hafeez plays as 2nd or 3rd spinner as needed and takes wickets too. Ajmal never looked as ineffective as Ashwin.

He averages 111 in Australia, 58 in New Zealand, 33 in South Africa (as mentioned before went wicketless in Joburg and gave 140 runs in 40 overs). He has done only well in UAE, West Indies, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka etc.

[Ghost Buster]

Ajmal bowled 40 odd overs and gave away 140 runs and picked no wickets here in Joburg. Did he get dropped ? Wanderers is a wicket which doesnt help spinners and you can hardly be surprised if spinners dont pick wickets there. He did a good containing job but will do better when wickets help spinners.

But this time around the pitch had lot of cracks and indifferent bounce. On the last day the pitch was turning too still he couldnt pick one wkt. Ashwin has to somehow find a doosra.

[NareshK]

But this time around the pitch had lot of cracks and indifferent bounce. On the last day the pitch was turning too still he couldnt pick one wkt. Ashwin has to somehow find a doosra.

It was still quite flat. India and SA both scored 420 and 450 each respectively.

[NareshK]

The title of this thread is ridiculous. We're talking about a bowler who is one of the quickest to pick 100 test wickets and the title says if he is a crap test bowler. :facepalm: Is this how we treat a young, talented bowler who has done superbly at least in home conditions ? The discussion is about whether he can take wickets in South Africa and not if he is a crap bowler. Can the mods move these posts to a new thread with a different title ?

[rkt.india]

He averages 111 in Australia, 58 in New Zealand, 33 in South Africa (as mentioned before went wicketless in Joburg and gave 140 runs in 40 overs). He has done only well in UAE, West Indies, Zimbabwe, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka etc.

So if Ajmal has not done anything at these places then how you are hopeful that Ashwin will do.

[NareshK]

So if Ajmal has not done anything at these places then how you are hopeful that Ashwin will do.

He did well in the next test where wicket was lot drier. Against SA, you have a better chance with a spinner than a seamer if the wicket becomes dry and slows up a bit. As I mentioned before, they handle seamers quite easily. It would be like playing an extra spinner against India.

[rkt.india]

SA batsmen play seamers very well and B Kumar or Umesh will be easy to handle for them as they are used to playing Steyn' date= Morkel, Philander etc in nets. If fourth seamer also goes for runs, it will be hard to put any pressure on their batsmen. We need a spinner along with 3 seamers to have a good attack. I dont think Jadeja has the variations or flight to trouble test batsmen in SA conditions. He will be much easier to handle than Ashwin and will only hold the runs at best.

This is a poor argument. Does not matter who you face in the nets, batting in the match is completely different. If they were so good against pace, they would not have gotten out at 244 in first innings or 84 in 2006. Every batsmen, no matter how good he is, will struggle against a quick bowler in seaming conditions considering bowler is bowling well and utilizing the conditions like India did in first innings.

[rkt.india]

He did well in the next test. Against SA' date=' you have a better chance with a spinner than a seamer if the wicket becomes dry and slows up a bit. As I mentioned before, they handle seamers quite easily. It would be like playing an extra spinner against India.[/quote'] how they handled seamers easily, while all the wickets were fell to seamers and spinner did not pick a single wicket. Regarding, pitch, this has been a wet summer, not dry, so do not hope for a dry pitch at Durban this time.

[NareshK]

This is a poor argument. Does not matter who you face in the nets' date=' batting in the match is a completely different. If they were so good against pace, they would not have gotten out at 244 in first innings or 84 in 2006. Every batsmen, no matter how good he is, will struggle against a quick bowler in seaming conditions considering bowler is bowling well and utilizing the conditions like India did in first innings.[/quote'] We dont have Marshall or Holding to play as 4th seamer. Its not straight forward to play Umesh or B Kumar as it can backfire quite badly. It will be a huge gamble because we would have a long tail, the over rate scenario and having no spin option if wicket offers turn.