Yoda-esque Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Remember that the Marines can serve their penalty or sentence in Italy as well. Source please?
Crookbond Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Source please? http://www.indianexpress.com/news/if-convicted-italian-marines-can-serve-jail-term-at-home/1072376/0
Crookbond Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 IBNLiveRealtime: Clarified to Italy that marines won't be sentenced to death: Khurshid ndtv: Salman Khurshid on return of Italian marines: There was no deal struck whatsoever ndtv: Salman Khurshid on Italian marines row: Important to keep communication open; channels of communication kept open despite immense pressure IBNLiveRealtime: Italian marines trial an unusual trial: Khurshid IBNLiveRealtime: We will constitute the special court quickly: Khurshid
surajmal Posted March 22, 2013 Author Posted March 22, 2013 So SC has some life left yet. Oh, this also means that Agusta Westland deal will proceed (once the heat dies down), especially since they have found their scapegoat in Tyagi.
1983-2011 Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Italian marines’ return: 3 theories of rightwing theology What the good lord giveth, he has sadly taken away. The Italian marine debacle was a veritable blessing for UPA-haters. It was the sublime symbol of the ruling government’s most grievous sins: Manmohan’s incurable pusillanimity and Sonia Gandhi‘s nefarious Italian Connection. Conspiracy theories abounded with the pied piper of invective, Subramanian Swamy leading the way: “My friends abroad have confirmed this Italian trick on our nation is due to personal monitoring of TDK thru Ms Kaur the MoS in MEA.†But now the marines are on their way back in an unexpected diplomatic turnaround that would boggle lesser minds. What is a Congress-loather to do? Since giving credit, however modest, to the UPA government would be downright sacrilegious, the need of the hour is an Olympian jump to self-serving conclusions. A heroic act of logic-twisting triage that can repair this unwonted intrusion into the rightwing bubble. When life gives you lemons, it’s time to make some Kool-aid. Here are the top rightwing explanations as to why the return of the marines is irrefutable confirmation of the core precepts of rightwing theology. Swamy is always king Subramanian Swamy has been accused of many sins, but false modesty is not one of them. He is not one to deny credit where he insists its due — which, inevitably, to him. “The original plan was that Marines would not return, Ambassador would be expelled and Italy will not expose ‘the family,’†he explained on Twitter, a devious plot foiled singlehandedly by our superman who asked the Chief Justice of India to take suo motu cognisance of the matter and prevent the Ambassador from leaving the country. “Had I not turned up in SC and asked for restraining the Amb and an exhange of hot words with CJI, the matter would have…†Swamy tweeted, leaving us to imagine the pitiful state of nation’s honour if he had failed to intervene. As all right-thinking people know, it’s a short hop from from Swamy’s lips to the Chief Justices’ ears. No doubt, left to its own devices, the Supreme Court would have rolled over and played dead. Surely, it is no coincidence that our nation’s highest court issued a stern warning to the Italian Ambassador soon after his heroic action. His latest triumph merely confirms what all rightwingers already know: Super Swamy, tussi truly great ho! Now if only you could singlehandedly nuke Pakistan and push all those Muslims into the sea (as you once promised), all would be truly right with the world. MMS is a wimp When the Italian government refused to return the marines, it was tom-tomed as yet more damning proof of Manmohan Singh‘s ‘bended knee’ foreign policy. BJP leader Arun Jaitley accused him of being “helpless†in the face of “enemy action.†His government’s success in securing their return has not, however, earned him any redemption. If anything, it confirms yet again that our prime minister has succumbed again, though this time to political pressure from the valiant opposition party. “Our government has therefore insisted that the Italian authorities respect the undertakings they have given to the honourable Supreme Court and return the two accused persons to stand trial in India. If they do not keep their word there will be consequences for our relations with Italy,†the prime minister declared, his flailing spine valiantly bolstered by the BJP. And it’s the BJP again which ought to be credited for their return, even if it is the BJP that says so. “Must say the combined effort of the Opposition to persuade the government to carry on its diplomacy seems to have worked. The tough stand taken by the Supreme Court also had its impact,†said BJP spokesman Rajiv Pratap Rudy, careful omitting any kudos to the minions who actually engaged in the menial work of ‘diplomacy.’ The Italian hand is everywhere When the marines skipped town, BJP spokesman Prakash Javadekar was quick to allege “diplomatic collusion†with Rome, raising the ‘Maino connection’ by innuendo: “When it comes to Italy, why does the government’s stand becomes soft?†Swamy, however, was more blunt, if not accurate: “TDK interested because one of the marines is a special friend of her close relative.†Now that the boys are coming back, some eagle-eyed observers have once again spotted the Italian hand behind the scenes. “Italian marines have been sent back to India under the Sonia Gandhi Sasuraal Bachao Scheme,†tweeted Financial Express editor Sunil Jain. The more inspired versions of the same theory include: “So Italians have agreed to send back the 2 marines. I now wonder was this stage managed to show Sonia batting for India defying home Italy.†Irrespective of why the UPA government’s ‘diplomacy’ may have worked, it remains a shady ‘back room deal.†After all, these guys are Italian! It surely explains why our wimpy government brokered such a weak agreement. Not only have we assured Rome that the “fundamental rights†of the marines will be protected — shock, horror! — but they will be hosted at the Italian Embassy during the course of the trial, as opposed to our nasty jails. Worse, there is already talk that they may never have to even if they are found guilty, and will transferred instead to a prison back home. The upside of this latest ‘theory’ is that the verdict in the case is now moot. We can already confirm that the Italians will once again be let off the hook. Everyone has their ideological blinkers, be they leftwing or right. There is also no shortage of reasonable people on the right who don’t allow their bias to get into the way of facing facts. When the rightwing twitterati began to beat the Sonia-is-Italian drum during the marines face-off, Wall Street Journal columnist Sadanand Dhume tweeted, “Hate to be a party pooper, but you can’t blame Sonia Gandhi for this fiasco just because the absconding marines happen to be Italian.†And when Ministry of External Affairs spokesman Syed Akbaruddin broke the news of their return, Takashila director Nitin Pai responded, “Good news. Congratulations are in order.†But in the case of many Congress-haters, political beliefs have hardened into religious tautology. It doesn’t matter what the UPA government does, its actions yield the exact same conclusion. So in the end, it doesn’t matter that Italy succumbed to pressure from Delhi and the Supreme Court; or that the deal was, for better or worse, pushed through by the UPA government; or that diplomacy necessarily entails making some concessions; or that the families of the fishermen now have some hope of justice. What matters is to assure ourselves of what remains forever, irrefutably true: right-wingers are almighty; Manmohan Singh is weak; and Sonia is a foreign devil. http://www.firstpost.com/politics/italian-marines-return-3-theories-of-rightwing-theology-671429.html
Trichromatic Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Marines’ return: Why is Cong taking credit for what SC did? Even as the Congress rushes to claim credit for bringing back the killer marines from Italy, the sad truth of India is that yet again it’s the judiciary that saved the country’s honour. Honour is not a progressive expression, but in this context, let’s keep it because it makes sense. It’s about the country’s image, prestige and respectability in our backyard and elsewhere. The supercilious and glib ones in the government — foreign minster Salman Khurshid and finance minister P Chidambaram — were categorical that it’s their diplomacy that worked while Manish Tewari and Ashwani Kumar gave some credit to the Supreme Court as well. Of course, the BJP, even while sounding ludicrous, also claimed credit for the success because they had created some ruckus in the parliament. But what is so evident, that the politicians chose to ignore, is that it was the Supreme Court that told the Italian Ambassador that he can’t leave the country and that he had forfeited his diplomatic immunity by standing guarantee to his countrymen who are wanted by Indian law. By the turn of events, it was so clear that Italy, along with its Ambassador to India, had hatched this plan meticulously. It was a silly plan alright, but probably that was the country’s respect for the “diplomacy” of India that our smart men are waxing eloquent about now. Ask for a vacation, come back as good boys to win the trust of the court, and then go back again for good. The Ambassador can fool India and its courts by standing guarantor and later default by claiming diplomatic immunity. How simple was that? Read more...
yoda Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Supreme Court is ignored in our country itself, for example the Karnataka govt and cauvery water case. If you think Italy succumbed to our mighty Supreme Court, it is naive. I am pretty sure there has been back door diplomacy. Question is what was agreed to in those discussions which made Italy agree to send these guys back? May be a chance for quick trial with minimal jail time which can be reduced for good behavior, time already "served" and with the chance to complete rest of the time back home.
Crookbond Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 If initially, the Congress was blamed for the marines leaving India - they should now be credited for bringing them back. However, in reality it's the SC who botched it and it's the SC who patched it up.
Crookbond Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Supreme Court is ignored in our country itself' date=' for example the Karnataka govt and cauvery water case. If you think Italy succumbed to our mighty Supreme Court, it is naive. I am pretty sure there has been back door diplomacy. [b']Question is what was agreed to in those discussions which made Italy agree to send these guys back? May be a chance for quick trial with minimal jail time which can be reduced for good behavior, time already "served" and with the chance to complete rest of the time back home. Quick trial with no death penalty.
Yoda-esque Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Face saving exercise for both countries. Nothing is going to happen to them.Some monetary penalty will be involved.
CG Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 If initially' date=' the Congress was blamed for the marines leaving India - they should now be credited for bringing them back. However, in reality it's the SC who botched it and it's the SC who patched it up.[/quote'] I think the govt did not object to sending the marines also.
Crookbond Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 I think the govt did not object to sending the marines also. :blink: Why should the government object a SC decision? The only fault on the part of the government here is that they have't set up the special court as asked by the SC which led to the impression that the trial may take time for the Italy Marines.
1983-2011 Posted March 22, 2013 Posted March 22, 2013 Marines’ return: Why is Cong taking credit for what SC did? Read more... so why was congress blamed when SC let them go back to Italy?
Mariyam Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Indians should stop eating pizza' date=' pasta, and drinking cappuccino. Don't import Fiat or Chryssler, Dodge or Jeep cars. Pour all imported Italian wine into the Arabian sea.[/quote'] Says the guy with a Latin catch phrase below his moniker.
Mariyam Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Face saving exercise for both countries. Nothing is going to happen to them.Some monetary penalty will be involved. Why is it a face saving exercise for us? Apart from being trusting, what wrong has India done here? I agree they shouldn't have been let off to vote, but their Ambassador had given the court a written affidavit of sorts. They came, they murdered, and they were arrested. They tried to dump their GPS into the sea, to deny the investigative authorities the exact location of the crime. India, yet hasn't charged them with evidence tampering/ destruction. If anything we've already been lenient. Their ambassador lied to our court and his government went back on the promise that they had made to the court. Where we showed some kind of largese, their government was deceitful. India exerted some kind of pressure on the Italians and they were finally brow beaten into sending the 2 marines back.
The Outsider Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Looks to be a bad day in office for conspiracy theorists on the thread. Can't seem to find the right story.
EnterTheVoid Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 It was either the ambassador or the marines. Simple choice, blind Freddy and his dog could have seen it coming from a mile away.
DomainK Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 It was either the ambassador or the marines. Simple choice, blind Freddy and his dog could have seen it coming from a mile away. Not quite. They were entering a grey area and I think it would not have gone SC's way in the long run. SC has no jurisdiction whatsoever. Diplomatic immunity means the subject can not be arrested or prosecuted or interrogated regardless of the seriousness of the crime and regardless of the evidence. Even if it's murder or espionage, the worst the SC or the Indian government could have done was to expel him and send him back to Italy.
Yoda-esque Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 Why is it a face saving exercise for us? Apart from being trusting, what wrong has India done here? I agree they shouldn't have been let off to vote, but their Ambassador had given the court a written affidavit of sorts. They came, they murdered, and they were arrested. They tried to dump their GPS into the sea, to deny the investigative authorities the exact location of the crime. India, yet hasn't charged them with evidence tampering/ destruction. If anything we've already been lenient. Their ambassador lied to our court and his government went back on the promise that they had made to the court. Where we showed some kind of largese, their government was deceitful. India exerted some kind of pressure on the Italians and they were finally brow beaten into sending the 2 marines back. I mean, we did look foolish when the Italians didn't choose to send them back initially.
Texy Posted March 23, 2013 Posted March 23, 2013 So what happens now if India shows a giant ..l., to Italy after they arrive back and abolish the new deal on death penalty?
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