Ram Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 It is quite hard to go around chest-thumping that we are the best when, a young women is mercilessly raped, brutally assaulted, stripped naked and thrown on the road to die and 100s, if not 1000s of our fellow citizens walked and drove past without even pausing to help. It is quite interesting to see fellow posters quoting stats/'liveability' indexes, when trying to compare societies. In my opinion, that is so missing the point. While quality of life is important, it is nowhere near to being the most important parameter to rank countries. In my view, the single biggest criterion to understand the moral code of a country is to see how its citizens react to injustices being perpetrated in front of their eyes, especially when the victims are minorities, under-privileged etc. We just dont fail this test, we dont even try to take it. As a country, we have simply lost our soul and our moral-marker. Long story short - Lets just say while walking on the road I encountered a terrible accident. I have two options on the locations where this accident can happen - 1) My beloved Madras and 2) Amreeka. I already know which option I am picking, thank you.
ganeshran Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Long story short - Lets just say while walking on the road I encountered a terrible accident. I have two options on the locations where this accident can happen - 1) My beloved Madras and 2) Amreeka. I already know which option I am picking' date=' thank you.[/quote'] I think you are being unfair here. If you encounter an accident on the roads in a reasonly crowded place in India, people will rush to help and call an ambulance and help you get on it. Have observed this plenty of times. the cases where people do not help are hit and run cases in remote places, or a criminal act. Both these situations tend to involve harassment by police and often an attempt to frame the person who helped them. Which is really unfortunate because people are not looking the other way because they are too lazy or can't be bothered to help, but rather because they simply cannot afford to keep going to the police or courts giving up their livelihood and income source.
akshayxyz Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 So far theme of this thread has been - my definition of greatness is better (more correct) than yours.
Muloghonto Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 The countries that are most often outside the news are the best places to live. It is no coincidence that we hardly ever hear anything going on in Scandinavia and they consistently top/place near the top in virtually every human development of factor except making more money than what we would know to do with it. So yes, they are not the best nation on the planet if your career aspiration is to accumulate billions of dollars. On virtually every other human persuit that humanity defines as positive/neutral, Scandinavias are the best nations on the planet. India has a long way to go before it can become the best nation or even in the top 20 nations in the world. Yes, India is very interesting and has a lot going for it, but best ? hardly. We still have the basic problem of lack of individual responsibility & distinction between individual and society in India. Out here(as in, west coast Canada/US), when we open the paper and read about some nutbar christian going on a killing spree of schoolchildren, we are disgusted, tell ourselves what a sick individual he is and hopefully he gets his just desserts. Back home, when we open newspapers about a muslim (or a hindu or a Christian) going beserk, people go 'these muslims/hindus/christians are a problem, we should do somehting about it' and start looking for the nearest christian/muslim/hindu to beat up on. Ie, basic failure in differentiating society from the individual. Until Indian society gets that basic aspect right, it has no business even considering itself for being 'best nation'.
punjabi_khota Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 The countries that are most often outside the news are the best places to live. It is no coincidence that we hardly ever hear anything going on in Scandinavia and they consistently top/place near the top in virtually every human development of factor except making more money than what we would know to do with it. So yes, they are not the best nation on the planet if your career aspiration is to accumulate billions of dollars. On virtually every other human persuit that humanity defines as positive/neutral, Scandinavias are the best nations on the planet. India has a long way to go before it can become the best nation or even in the top 20 nations in the world. Yes, India is very interesting and has a lot going for it, but best ? hardly. That is a very shortsighted view of looking at it. Most of these scandinavian countries (or random crapshoots like Canada/OZ/NZ) have very little impact on the world. Very few scientific breakthroughs to speak of, no space program to fire the imagination, no great companies to speak of, no great universities (Canada has a couple). All these people who do that in America aren't doing it to earn billion dollar paychecks. Aint nobody doing it better than 'Merica. Germany and England are somewhat of a competitor and so are Japan and China, but everyone else is just riding along. Talking of human pursuits, science and technology should probably rank up there, shouldn't it ? :P
gs Posted January 18, 2013 Posted January 18, 2013 Despite all its self inflicted shortcomings, America is still way ahead of the pack. India comes second to me simply because its my home country and not because of its own greatness.
anotherhawkeye Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 And, Yes am saying this sitting in the UK but I have made a decision to go back this year. I am an optimist and I hope everything turns out well. Let's see what tune you play a year after living in India.
anotherhawkeye Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 I think you are being unfair here. If you encounter an accident on the roads in a reasonly crowded place in India, people will rush to help and call an ambulance and help you get on it. Have observed this plenty of times. the cases where people do not help are hit and run cases in remote places, or a criminal act. Both these situations tend to involve harassment by police and often an attempt to frame the person who helped them. Which is really unfortunate because people are not looking the other way because they are too lazy or can't be bothered to help, but rather because they simply cannot afford to keep going to the police or courts giving up their livelihood and income source. You have a point, but Ram has one too. We have lot of decent folk in India, but Indians in general go the extra distance only when they have a stake in it.
EnterTheVoid Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Aint nobody doing it better than 'Merica. Germany and England are somewhat of a competitor and so are Japan and China, but everyone else is just riding along. Talking of human pursuits, science and technology should probably rank up there, shouldn't it ? :P I would also give them credit for their outlook on life in general, I felt I learnt a lot from them whilst I was there. I went to Japan not long after the 2011 earthquake hit, it was incredible watching everyone help each other out and try and rebuild what was left.
Ram Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 I think you are being unfair here. If you encounter an accident on the roads in a reasonly crowded place in India, people will rush to help and call an ambulance and help you get on it. Have observed this plenty of times. the cases where people do not help are hit and run cases in remote places, or a criminal act. Both these situations tend to involve harassment by police and often an attempt to frame the person who helped them. Which is really unfortunate because people are not looking the other way because they are too lazy or can't be bothered to help, but rather because they simply cannot afford to keep going to the police or courts giving up their livelihood and income source. The response to your post lies within your post itself. How did we, as a society, let ourselves degenerate so much to the point where basic acts of humanity are subject to caveats of corruption and nepotism? And that is just one example. If you look at another fundamental responsibility of the state towards its people, ie security, our grade is beyond F. Terrorists casually ply across the ocean in boats like they are on some vacation cruise and hold our biggest city hostage for days. Today, if India is safe, its not because our law enforcement has markedly improved, its because international scrutiny on terrorism has increased so much that its not beneficial for our adversaries to mount these kind of attacks. We cannot guarantee security for our citizens, cannot provide even a semblance of dignity to the poor, homeless and destitute, cannot influence the fact that 100s of millions of people languish in abject poverty, cannot block rampant child trafficking and other human rights violations and we want to call ourselves 'the greatest country on earth'? Like I said, if you want to judge a country, dont look at the top 10%, they'll do fine no matter what. Look at the bottom 10%. If the 100 million of India's poorest people were a country by themselves, then the reality of their collective plight will shock your conscience beyond repair.
Anonymous Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 It is quite hard to go around chest-thumping that we are the best when, a young women is mercilessly raped, brutally assaulted, stripped naked and thrown on the road to die and 100s, if not 1000s of our fellow citizens walked and drove past without even pausing to help. It is quite interesting to see fellow posters quoting stats/'liveability' indexes, when trying to compare societies. In my opinion, that is so missing the point. While quality of life is important, it is nowhere near to being the most important parameter to rank countries. In my view, the single biggest criterion to understand the moral code of a country is to see how its citizens react to injustices being perpetrated in front of their eyes, especially when the victims are minorities, under-privileged etc. We just dont fail this test, we dont even try to take it. As a country, we have simply lost our soul and our moral-marker. Long story short - Lets just say while walking on the road I encountered a terrible accident. I have two options on the locations where this accident can happen - 1) My beloved Madras and 2) Amreeka. I already know which option I am picking, thank you. Who is talking about best? To me, greatest means a lot of things, doesnt always mean the best country. Again, It took the men and women of Delhi to come out and protest this incident for people like you and me (and also gave our redneck brethren some racist fodder) to notice it or would you have even bothered to look at it if it was hidden somewhere in the crime columns of the newspapers? Has America lost its moral fiber because of sandy hook? How can you tarnish a country by the action of few animals. You are no different from those dumb stereotyping yanks. I respect your personal opinion for your green card, that doesnt give you the right to belittle India. Oh and btw, I believe UK has a better (read universal) medical system than the USA and by that yardstick, I would any day take Chennai's medical care talking from personal experience.
EnterTheVoid Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Like I said' date=' if you want to judge a country, dont look at the top 10%, they'll do fine no matter what. Look at the bottom 10%. If the 100 million of India's poorest people were a country by themselves, then the reality of their collective condition will shock your conscience beyond repair.[/quote'] Thats a very good point, harsh but fair.
Ram Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Who is talking about best? To me' date=' greatest means a lot of things, doesnt always mean the best country. Again, It took the men and women of Delhi to come out and protest this incident for people like you and me (and also gave our redneck brethren some racist fodder) to notice it or would you have even bothered to look at it if it was hidden somewhere in the crime columns of the newspapers? Has America lost its moral fiber because of sandy hook? How can you tarnish a country by the action of few animals. You are no different from those dumb stereotyping yanks. I respect your personal opinion for your green card, that doesnt give you the right to belittle India. [/quote'] Talk about missing the point entirely. The essence of my posts seem to have completely flown over your head like a kite on a windy day. And that is because my friend, you can afford it. I am not talking about people like you. I am talking about people who are come from less privileged backgrounds. In India, if you have the resources, then the world's your oyster. If you are not so fortunate, then your fortunes depend almost entirely on the whims and fancies of fate. The only medical insurance a majority of Indian people can afford is HOPE. P.S; The lord above knows what the US green card has got to do with any of this discussion. I am not speaking from the perspective of a resident of the United States. I did not bring the US' name into the discussion even once. Plus, its not like I am some white dude who knows a about India only thru what he has seen on Travel Channel. I have lived there, I know what the reality is.
Swing_n_Speed Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Has to be the Scandinavian states. Yep. But they somewhat willingly screwing themselves with some redundant immigration policies. Then there's Austria, then Canada. Many say Australia? It that good? America is pretty awesome too, but for some reason I get the feeling is going downhill fast. Indian is the home of culture and all that jazz. But sadly our greed and selfishness will never allow us to build decent cities. Just look at Goa. One of the most beautiful cities in the world. And look at how effing pathetic city planning has turned Goa into a disaster.
someone Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 I guess if you want to "see life", India is the greatest country. But if you want to "enjoy life", India may not be that country. Really, the answer to answer this question depends on your very own definition.
Sachin=GOD Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Right now no country in this world is anywhere near being great, let alone being greatest.
Rohit S. Ambani Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Canada actually has very good weather, I can't stand hot weather of India and Australia. Actually North Indians don't even feel much cold in Canada, it's the South Indian who can't tolerate Canada. Plus Canada has very good heating system everywhere. Places like Calgary, Surrey, Brampton, Mississauga are awesome. I adjusted to Canadian weather quickly. Also you will feel at home in Canada, millions of desi here.
Clarke Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 China followed by North Korea, Cuba, Iran & Venezuela in that order. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/06/north-korea-global-happiness-index-china-happiest-place_n_871784.html :winky:
Crookbond Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Like I said, if you want to judge a country, dont look at the top 10%, they'll do fine no matter what. Look at the bottom 10%. If the 100 million of India's poorest people were a country by themselves, then the reality of their collective plight will shock your conscience beyond repair. Appropriate and very fair point coming from none other than Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.
Muloghonto Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 That is a very shortsighted view of looking at it. Most of these scandinavian countries (or random crapshoots like Canada/OZ/NZ) have very little impact on the world. Very few scientific breakthroughs to speak of, no space program to fire the imagination, no great companies to speak of, no great universities (Canada has a couple). All these people who do that in America aren't doing it to earn billion dollar paychecks. Aint nobody doing it better than 'Merica. Germany and England are somewhat of a competitor and so are Japan and China, but everyone else is just riding along. Talking of human pursuits, science and technology should probably rank up there, shouldn't it ? :P You are kidding me, right ? Sure, America dominates in the field of scientific discoveries, primarily due to brain drain and the fact that they have over ten times the number of faculty and universities than any other developed nation but make no mistake, virtually every other western nation is competetive with America(once per capita scale is adjusted) for scientific research. Microprocessor devices is a dead heat between USA and Taiwan, mobile phone technology has far bigger contributions to it from Scandinavian countries and Japan than USA, in medical research EU leads the way, etc. Yes, USA has a space program, whopee ding. But seriously, if your career aspirations are to be a successful scientist/engineer, practically anywhere in the western world can give you a fulfilling and satisfying career with plenty of scope of development. Ultimately, the only thing USA does better than rest of the western world, is to cater to the 0.001%, the top echelon of any field, better than the rest, by throwing oodles of money their way. As far as society goes, USA is by no means a shining example of the western world and if living somewhere is your objective, which is not just career aspirations (nevermind the fact that none of us here are the 99.999th percentile in our fields), but also social and societerial issues, USA is far, far behind Scandinavian countries, Germany,New Zealand, Canada, etc.
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