Why Tendulkar must retire now

[The Outsider]

I subscribe to that theory but which "must win" game in the league stage did Tendulkar perform in? Just curious.

India needed to win this match against NZ to stay in the competition: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65144.html Not the best performance of the innings, but a decent score in the match against Pakistan: http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65226.html

[The Outsider]

That was a very good catch and Oram is a tall man. If there was any other fielder there' date=' that would have been six.[/quote'] What's your point?

[BeautifulGame]

Is there a more important and must win Game for India than this in terms of pressure ? http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/engine/current/match/433605.html

[Crookbond]

wasnt game against Pak in 2003' date='a must win for us?Just asking[/quote'] Was it? I don't think so but despite not being a must win - there was quite a lot of pressure.

[ravishingravi]

I was watching WC final highlights. They were carrying the great man on his shoulders. Tears in my eyes. My hero finally gets the team and the farewell he deserves. 2 years down the line I want him "kicked" out. Sad.

[rkt.india]

More subjectivity. Only thing is which way does this coin flip. Dravid significantly superior or Tendulkar?

SRT. Both are as important for Indian batting history, have played important innings but as a batting prodigy, ability, range of shots, SRT is much superior.

[The Outsider]

Yes - true but what I was trying to say is that we should make a list of such must-win matches and check if Tendulkar has performed. I guess it will be a 50-50 scenario.

Which might be true, but the success rate(let's say a 40+ score though it's subjective and an arbitrary) of even the best batsmen will be less than 50-50 overall. For example, Tendulkar has 176 40+ scores in 452 innings, Ponting 140 in 365 innings, Lara 103 in 289 innings. So if a batsman has a 50-50 success rate in must win matches he is doing significantly above par than the average success of great batsmen overall.

[Texan]

Is there a more important and must win Game for India than this in terms of pressure ? http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/engine/current/match/433605.html

In 24 years of cricket, he is bound to perform in some pressure games. But, the point most people are making is that he hasn't performed well in most of the high pressure games. This includes the 2 World Cup finals he's played in. He also did perform well in the final in Sharjah in 1998 and the CB Series final (I forget which year, but I believe it was the 2007-08 one). Besides, don't forget, the match you have mentioned was probably the luckiest innings Sachin has ever played, with 3 or 4 dropped catches!

[Dumbbells]

I dnt wat he is waiting for....pls retire wid dignity. Indian cricket is bigger den u enjoying ur cricket. We undrstnd u r enjoyin all d attention on d field. Its time u let it go now.

[Number]

...

you didn't reply to this earlier.

He has done well in SFs and quite well in Quarters of world cup. His avg in tournament finals is 55, 10 more than his overall avg of 45 (which itself is towering). Also while chasing in tournament finals his avg is even better. OK he is not retiring but don't think there is any need of badmouthing his past achievements.

In 24 years of cricket, he is bound to perform in some pressure games. But, the point most people are making is that he hasn't performed well in most of the high pressure games. This includes the 2 World Cup finals he's played in. He also did perform well in the final in Sharjah in 1998 and the CB Series final (I forget which year, but I believe it was the 2007-08 one).

he has 3 MOTMs in 5 high pressure world cup games against Pakistan.

[Texan]

Indian cricket is bigger den u enjoying ur cricket.

Yeah, like he cares about the greater good.

[Crookbond]

Which might be true, but the success rate(let's say a 40+ score though it's subjective and an arbitrary) of even the best batsmen will be less than 50-50 overall. For example, Tendulkar has 176 40+ scores in 452 innings, Ponting 140 in 365 innings, Lara 103 in 289 innings. So if a batsman has a 50-50 success rate in must win matches he is doing significantly above par than the average success of great batsmen overall.

But, weren't you not saying that you will choose Richards over Tendulkar? On a side note, the title and the discussion topic on this thread is totally tangential.

[The Outsider]

But' date=' weren't you not saying that you will choose Richards over Tendulkar? On a side note, the title and the discussion topic on this thread is totally tangential.[/quote'] Yeah, I would because I consider Richards and Tendulkar to be equal otherwise, and so as a tie breaker I would pick Richards on the basis of his performance in WC finals. However, if it was Tendulkar and Ponting for example, I rate Tendulkar the better batsman anyways so Ponting's superior record in WC finals does not enter the picture.

[BeautifulGame]

Yeah' date=' I would because I consider Richards and Tendulkar to be equal otherwise, and so as a tie breaker I would pick Richards on the basis of his performance in WC finals. However, if it was Tendulkar and Ponting for example, I rate Tendulkar the better batsman anyways so Ponting's superior record in WC finals does not enter the picture.[/quote'] Honestly there isnt much difference btw Sachin and Ponting in ODIs imo. Tests - Yes. But in ODIs i think he is better than Lara and not much inferior to Sachin imo

[Texan]

He has done well in SFs and quite well in Quarters of world cup. His avg in tournament finals is 55, 10 more than his overall avg of 45 (which itself is towering). Also while chasing in tournament finals his avg is even better. OK he is not retiring but don't think there is any need of badmouthing his past achievements.

Not all finals are equal. There's a huge difference between playing the WC Final as against playing some unknown Compaq :idunno: Cup final. He's played 2 WC Finals and failed in both of them despite being in good form throughout both the tournaments. Now, some may say that the sample size is small, but then playing WC finals is rare. Even the great WI team of the 70s and 80s only played 3 WC finals. However, the question here is not his performance in pressure games. It is whether he should retire or not. Even his biggest fans agree that he is terribly out of form and is only damaging his reputation now. His average hadn't dropped below 54 since Feb 1999, a gap of 14 years (currently, it is below 54). He should have retired from all forms of the game at the end of the 2011 World Cup, when his Test average was 56. A final won at home on his home ground would have been a fitting finale!

[harmuk]

In 24 years of cricket' date=' he is bound to perform in some pressure games. [b']But, the point most people are making is that he hasn't performed well in most of the high pressure games. This includes the 2 World Cup finals he's played in. He also did perform well in the final in Sharjah in 1998 and the CB Series final (I forget which year, but I believe it was the 2007-08 one). Besides, don't forget, the match you have mentioned was probably the luckiest innings Sachin has ever played, with 3 or 4 dropped catches!

Don't expect any cricket related answers to that, because there aren't any excepting he failed when it mattered more than perhaps a player with some 450 odd games should. That is where in ODI's players like Viv, Gilly, Bevan and even MSD (in certain conditions) are of high value given they can finish games better than Tendulkar, most certainly. There is a reason why India failed in so many tournament finals (17 or so under Ganguly) which only turned around under MSD post 2008, at the advent of players like GG, MSD, Raina and YS's finishing ability and of course Virat off late which also helped us get the WC after almost 30 years, once the RD's and SG's are out of the ODI team.

[Vanarp22]

Kallis's 50s against Pattinson & Co is nowhere the callibre of scoring a 50 against OZ in the late 90s/early 2000s period. Check out par scores on those pictches back then and the quality of OZ attack. In the whole 95-2005 period, perhaps only a handful of batsmen have done well against the OZ. That is the peak of OZ bowling prowess (though they are shaping up to be a major force again in the next year or two) and that is where Kallis & Dravid fell flat. That is where the difference between Kallis/Dravid/Ponting/Miandad & the Lara/Tendy/Viv is : the latter did well against the best bowling attacks of their time and much better bowling attacks than the former. Ultimately, the better batsman is the one who succeeds against the best of bowling, not who makes more hay against the highschool team. In the latter aspect, Kallis is equal to, if not greater than Tendy (beating up on B level bowling). In the former aspect, the gulf between Tendy/Lara and the rest, atleast the ones who've debuted after 1990, is significant.

:hysterical: I wish there was a way for the mods to move an individual post to the Jokes section. This is just too funny.

[rkt.india]

Leave Tendulkar alone and let him retire on his own terms: Rajeev Shukla

Rajeev Shukla has echoed the voice of the likes of Sunil Gavaskar and BCCI chief N Srinivasan and has made it clear that Sachin Tendulkar himself will decide when he wants to bid adieu to the Test cricket. According to Shukla, Sachin contributed a lot to Indian Cricket and has made the whole nation proud and that’s why he deserves to take retirement on his own terms rather than under pressure from his critics. According to the reports in Times of India, Rajeev Shukla was quoted saying, "His immense contribution not just for Indian cricket but to the entire cricketing world is something for which everybody respects him. We are in no hurry to take a decision on his retirement and personally I feel that he knows it better than anybody else about his retirement.†Tendulkar’s poor form continued in the third successive home series and in the recent series against Australia he managed to cross the fifty run mark just once but Rajiv Shukla was unmoved by the fact. He was quoted by Indian Express saying, "As far as records are concerned, nobody in the cricketing world has a better record than him. Judging a class batsman of his caliber on the basis of one or two series is nothing but immature behaviour. We can’t let him go without a well-deserved farewell.†Shula’s views resonate with the BCCI President, N Srinivasan who last week came out in support of Sachin Tendulkar and dismissed the rumors of his retirement. N Srinivasan made it clear that a batsman of Tendulkar’s class should not be forced on the decision of his retirement. On the participation of Sri-Lankan players in the sixth edition of IPL, Rajiv Shukla was quoted by The Hindu, saying, “Security of Lankan player is our primary concern and that’s why the decision of not allowing them for Chennai matches has been taken. There was no sort of pressure and we had taken a middle path by taking into the consideration the sentiments of the State (Tamil Nadu) government as well as the security of the players.†"Changing the venues over-night is not possible and that’s why we are sticking to our schedule and venues. A lot of time is required to prepare the stadium to host these matches and that’s why the decision of not shifting the matches from Chennai has been taken. Sri-Lankan board has also supported this decision and has finally agreed with the decision of IPL governing council.â€

http://www.indiansportsnews.com/from-newspapers/21058-leave-tendulkar-alone-and-let-him-retire-on-his-own-terms-rajeev-shukla.html

[vamos_rafa]

I think you need to invest more time into reading people's posts than chime in with meaningless smileys. Aren't you the guy who muttered something about Ganguly, without even following a Test series properly. http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=2309300&postcount=62 http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=2309710&postcount=78 At least get your facts right, if you were going to laugh at others.

:hysterical: Someone's angry over there! I wrote it out of memory. Does not mean I did not follow it properly.

[diga]

blast from the past :--D