someone Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 There was an interesting news on Wednesday. It said that Uttar Pradesh Government, headed by a young Chief Minister Akhilesh Yadav, has given a Minister of State post to a Muslim cleric two days ago. Giving this post basically means that he was not democratically elected, but was specially appointed at the discretion of the Chief Minister. Then we heard that there were protests by BJP against this move. Most casual observers would then move on to the next news item. What’s so special in a seemingly pro-Hindu BJP protesting against a secular Government giving Minister status to a Muslim Maulana? That’s probably the thought process of a typical Left liberal person in India. Hey, wait, there’s a lot more to this. Spare a few minutes. This particular case involves a prominent Muslim cleric of Barelvi Sect, Mohammed Tauqeer Raza Khan. He’s now an adviser in Handloom Department – a Minister of State. Khan is the Itihaad-e-Millat Council president and belongs to Bareilly in Uttar Pradesh. Ultra 'Secularism' in Uttar PradeshWhy is this particular case so important to look deeper into? It’s because, this is not just a simple vote bank political move, of giving Minister status to a Muslim cleric. For understanding this, you need to go a few steps back via flashbacks, in a typical Bollywood masala movie style. Flashback 1: Mar 12, 2010 Hindu Muslim riots flare up again in Bareilly, after Tauqeer’s release. A relatively peaceful city, for Uttar Pradesh’s communal tension standard, Bareilly, witnessed yet another round of riots after this Tauqeer Raza Khan was released by Mayawati Government. Khan was ordered to be released soon after all the charges, except a milder one under Section 144 of the Indian Penal Code, were removed by the Uttar Pradesh administration and he was allowed to walk free following immense pressure from the members of his community. The important question here is, what was this ‘immense’ pressure from his community on Mayawati of BSP? Why did she yield? More importantly, why was he arrested in the first place? Flashback 2: Mar 9, 2010 A Muslim cleric arrested for communal clash in Bareilly Security was intensified in Uttar Pradesh’s Bareilly district following the arrest of a leading cleric for his alleged role in last week’s communal clash. Maulana Tauqeer Raza Khan, president of the Ittehad-e-Millat Council, was arrested. It was his “rabble rousing speech†that had led to communal tension in the district last week, officials said. “Fearing a backlash from his supporters, a heavy security cover has come up in parts of the district,†Superintendent of Police (city) Rakesh Jolly had told reporters. Now it gets interesting. So, this Muslim cleric, actually caused or intensified a communal riot in Bareilly, giving hate speeches against Hindus? Sounds like a serious problematic person for communal harmony. But wait, there’s more colourful history of this Maulana. Flashback 3: Apr 2, 2009 Congress President Sonia Gandhi lays down line as UP unit ropes in ‘Bush-haters’ Congress Party sources said that day that their President Sonia Gandhi was upset about the embarrassing episode of the party providing platform to Ittehad-e-Millat Council (IMC) president Tauqeer Raza Khan at party headquarters without checking his antecedents and credentials. AICC General Secretary in-charge of Uttar Pradesh Digvijaya Singh and State PCC chief Rita Bahuguna Joshi had roped in Khan for the election’s Muslim votes. Interesting.. so, what was this controversial Khan doing at Congress headquarters? Flashback 4: Mar 26, 2009 AIIMC to support Congress in UP On this day, Maulana Tauqeer Raza Khan, president of the All-India Ittehad-e-Millat Council (AIIMC), extended the support of his group, a part of the Barelvi sect to the Congress. The Congress planned to have seat adjustments with the AIIMC in the next Assembly elections in Uttar Pradesh, said Digvijaya Singh, General Secretary of the Congress in-charge of the State, to whom the Maulana was introduced at a press conference on this day. So far, it is clear now that this cleric was arrested and released under pressure by BSP’s Mayawati in 2010, was roped in by Congress for seat adjustments an year earlier. But it still does not help why Sonia Gandhi was ‘upset’? For which you have to revert back to the period beyond the last two years. Flashback 5: Mar 15, 2007 A Muslim body announces Rs 5 lakh for Taslima’s head On his date, President of All India Muslim Personal Board (Jadeed) Maulana Tauqeer Raza Khan announced a reward of Rs 5 lakh on Bangladeshi writer Tasleema Nasreen’s head, if New Delhi does not restrict her entry into the country. “We demand that the Government should ban her entry into the country. If it is not done, anyone who beheads her will be given a reward of Rs five lakh,†he announced. Wow! So, a person, now a Minister in 2013 in UP, under the world’s largest democracy’s much valued system, had publicly talked about medieval desert justice like beheading? Wait, there’s more. Flashback 6: Date Unknown, Feb 2006 A bounty of Rs.25 crore announced, to anyone who beheads US President George W Bush By his own admission at a later date Press conference at the Congress headquarters on 26 March 2009, Tauqeer Raza Khan had offered a bounty of Rs 25 crore to anyone who beheads Bush, just before George Bush’s Presidential visit to India in March 2006. End of Flashbacks: Now our movie has run its full course.. ending is near. Here’s a firebrand hate spewing Muslim cleric, who does not believe in any democracy as he had offered bounty to behead high profile guests, and has been picked by Akhilesh Yadav to be a Minister of State. And as a coincidence, look at his organisation’s name, which is similar to a South Indian communal political party, i.e., All India Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen, of the recent infamous Akbaruddin Owaisi hate speech episode. Both are Ittehads. Both have leaders who believe in hate speech against Hindus. Both have incidents of extreme violence threat against writer Taslima Nasreen and there could be more. So, someone who openly called for the assassination of your nation’s Presidential guest (Bush) and your female asylum seeker (Taslima), someone who was arrested for giving inflammatory hate speech against your nation’s majority population (Hindus) that resulted in bloody riots, is now a Minister of State in your largest State! And more importantly, BSP, SP and Congress, all the three self-claimed secular parties, have bowed in front of this medieval firebrand cleric. Wah India.. wah! We have to bow to your ultra ‘secular’ standards! Ultra ‘Secularism’ in Uttar Pradesh | Niti Central
FischerTal Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-06-01/india/39674129_1_minorities-amu-universities Ahead of 2014 polls, govt plans universities for minorities Congress "secularism" at display. Doesnt secularism say for government to not favor one religion over another? hindustan waalon bante rahon chewtiyon :hehe:
Sachin=GOD Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 and some people still say that vote bank politics does not matter in India anymore
Crookbond Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-06-01/india/39674129_1_minorities-amu-universities Ahead of 2014 polls, govt plans universities for minorities Congress "secularism" at display. Doesnt secularism say for government to not favor one religion over another? hindustan waalon bante rahon chewtiyon :hehe: What is your opinion on Jain "only" buildings/apartments being built?
FischerTal Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 What is your opinion on Jain "only" buildings/apartments being built? its wrong, this is exactly what sardar patel warned us against. ghettoization will lead to a fractured india
Crookbond Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 its wrong' date=' this is exactly what sardar patel warned us against. ghettoization will lead to a fractured india[/quote'] The problem - it's both sides; not just one side. Now, people will come back and say "They did it first" but that becomes a juvenile argument like when kids play in their 4th grade. Personal stand - Reduce the PDR (Public Display of Religion) nuisance. Let the people take their path-pooja, dharm etc. to their homes and do what the feck they want to do there. Reservation may be tricky but should be done on caste (not religion; there is some merit for 1-time caste based reservation) and/or economic reasons. Of course, all the former is not possible until all processes & frameworks are followed but well some thought in that direction wouldn't be a bad start.
beetle Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 SP is the most blatantly communal and castiest party in the country.
FischerTal Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 The problem - it's both sides; not just one side. Now, people will come back and say "They did it first" but that becomes a juvenile argument like when kids play in their 4th grade. Personal stand - Reduce the PDR (Public Display of Religion) nuisance. Let the people take their path-pooja, dharm etc. to their homes and do what the feck they want to do there. Reservation may be tricky but should be done on caste (not religion; there is some merit for 1-time caste based reservation) and/or economic reasons. Of course, all the former is not possible until all processes & frameworks are followed but well some thought in that direction wouldn't be a bad start. lol u should be PM of india for that to happen because our current lot of politicians nor their sons and daughter who are waiting to be the next lot of politcians will achieve that. a divided house is required for so many parties to flourish. indians have attitude that as long as my needs are met, i dont care who rules over me and screws me in the long run. Plato said it correctly, if you dont take part in democracy, you will be ruled by your inferiors. PS-not attacking you personally for not partcipating in politics,etc. i am just making argument on how most indians think and then crib about their crappy politicians
ravishingravi Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 The problem - it's both sides; not just one side. Now, people will come back and say "They did it first" but that becomes a juvenile argument like when kids play in their 4th grade. Personal stand - Reduce the PDR (Public Display of Religion) nuisance. Let the people take their path-pooja, dharm etc. to their homes and do what the feck they want to do there. Reservation may be tricky but should be done on caste (not religion; there is some merit for 1-time caste based reservation) and/or economic reasons. Of course, all the former is not possible until all processes & frameworks are followed but well some thought in that direction wouldn't be a bad start. But how can one reduce public display of religion in a country wanting to be secular ? Wouldn't that be going against freedom of religion and expression.
Crookbond Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 lol u should be PM of india for that to happen because our current lot of politicians nor their sons and daughter who are waiting to be the next lot of politcians will achieve that. a divided house is required for so many parties to flourish. indians have attitude that as long as my needs are met' date= i dont care who rules over me and screws me in the long run. Plato said it correctly, if you dont take part in democracy, you will be ruled by your inferiors. PS-not attacking you personally for not partcipating in politics,etc. i am just making argument on how most indians think and then crib about their crappy politicians I am in 100% in agreement with you here. I just wrote what I felt was logically correct. All I wanted to say was Raita har baaju se pehel gaya hai. Btw, the quote of Plato is highly misinterpreted. Being a political leader is not the only way to "take part in democracy". You can be an average John Smith with a 9-5 job and still "take part" in democracy in various capacities.
Crookbond Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 But how can one reduce public display of religion in a country wanting to be secular ? Wouldn't that be going against freedom of religion and expression. If PDR is making a nation divisive and creating security & myriad other problems I am for it to be curbed. I took PDR as an example; you can replace anything out there. Secularism comes with rights and responsibilities. If the responsibilities are abused, the state should have enough control to curb the rights.
FischerTal Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 I am in 100% in agreement with you here. I just wrote what I felt was logically correct. All I wanted to say was Raita har baaju se pehel gaya hai. Btw, the quote of Plato is highly misinterpreted. Being a political leader is not the only way to "take part in democracy". You can be an average John Smith with a 9-5 job and still "take part" in democracy in various capacities. fair enough, but impact of person has to be noted as well. you can take part in democracy at the local level and try to change things there, but seeing the indian system, not much changes. We have enough activists working at the local level, but unless you hold power at the top, systemic changes are hard to accomplish
FischerTal Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 But how can one reduce public display of religion in a country wanting to be secular ? Wouldn't that be going against freedom of religion and expression. dude most of the riots between hindus and muslims go on because of public display of religion. i know in gujarat how many times muslims would get pissed at a ganesh visarjan procession and then riots would start. same would happen during eid for hindus. one good thing modi has done is made sure this nonsense stopped for the most part.
Crookbond Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 fair enough' date=' but impact of person has to be noted as well. you can take part in democracy at the local level and try to change things there, but seeing the indian system, not much changes. We have enough activists working at the local level, but unless you hold power at the top, systemic changes are hard to accomplish[/quote'] I think "indirect democracy" in particular will work both ways; top-down and bottom-up. There's a Chinese proverb which I like a lot - "If everyone cleans the space in front of their house; the whole street remains clean." In a large country like India, my hypothesis is that it will work very well.
FischerTal Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 I think "indirect democracy" in particular will work both ways; top-down and bottom-up. There's a Chinese proverb which I like a lot - "If everyone cleans the space in front of their house; the whole street remains clean." In a large country like India' date=' my hypothesis is that it will work very well.[/quote'] hmm true. thats one thing that separates india from usa. in india, people are much more connected at local level, whereas they will have gatherings with their neighbors and everyone in the mohallah and to some extent, there is a feeling of togetherness. america fails in this department. having lived here for 13 years, its a very individualistic country where not many people interact with their community members on a regular basis. so what i am saying is that 'indirect democracy" could work, but i still believe top-to-bottom is a more efficient approach and achieves long-lasting results
Number Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 UP people deserve all these crooks when they vote for them, though don't have much of choices either.
zumi Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 UP is just a sh!tehole and will continue to be India's cease pit.
FischerTal Posted June 2, 2013 Posted June 2, 2013 UP is just a sh!tehole and will continue to be India's cease pit. bihar takes objection to that :orderorder:
zumi Posted June 3, 2013 Posted June 3, 2013 bihar takes objection to that :orderorder: no it doesn't, likes of Bihar and MP have moved on, developing on both economic and social parameters. but UP, India's most populous state, on so many fronts it is messed up without any desire to move forward.
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