Brainfade Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 add Fengshi/Vaasthu to the blind superstition bill? I will second that. Thats one of the biggest scams as well. I would add one more: not moving from a spot while watching an Indian batting partnership ... out of fear that if I moved to another location, one of them will get out.
coffee_rules Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 Strange that the 70 year old sitting duck was bumped off in an election year!
The Outsider Posted August 23, 2013 Author Posted August 23, 2013 Missing the crux of the thread again!
diga Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 How about Miracle services offered by people like Benny Hinn? Will they ban that too? http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/thscrip/print.pl?file=20050211002803700.htm&date=fl2203/&prd=fline& canonization in christianity too is based on the person being able to conduct miracles.. Mother Teresa is a saint for supposedly curing a leper in calcutta
seedhi Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 What about numerology? What about kundli/ match making? How come those are exempt? Funny part is that the Mumbai HC had declared astrology as a science a few years ago.This Bill seems to based on completely random and ill conceived. "To claim possession of supernatural powers and to advertise this claim To dispense magical remedies for curing rabies and snake bites. To dispense medical remedies with claims of assured fertility. " Aren't these already under the auspices of the "Objectionable Advertisements of the Drugs and Remedies Act? What would a Hazrat Salim Chisti or a Hazrat Nizamuddin do, if they lived today?Not only that, but the most obviously ill thought clause is this one: To sacrifice innocent animals for the appeasement of gods or spirits. I guess this covers the sacrifices made in Eid ul zuha along with the those made during Durga puja in the north-east.
Brainfade Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 Missing the crux of the thread again! Which was? I am totally confused now.
The Outsider Posted August 26, 2013 Author Posted August 26, 2013 Which was? I am totally confused now. 1. No one deserves to die for any non violent expression of opinion. 2. Advertising services which you cannot realistically provide is fraud, religious or non religious.
yoda Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 I agree it is a slippery slope however I do see a need to ban a few of the bogus practices like beating people up to drive the spirits away.
beetle Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 I think it should cover all religions,astrology,numerology ,feng shui,vastu ,tarrot readings...sab kuch ban ho jaye....:haha: But seriously...it should cover the stupid customs like branding with hot metals,standing on the chest of babies,throwing babies from a height,forcing people to put hands in hot oil to check if they are lying,tying up mentality unstable patients .
diga Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 I think it should cover all religions,astrology,numerology ,feng shui,vastu ,tarrot readings...sab kuch ban ho jaye....:haha: But seriously...it should cover the stupid customs like branding with hot metals,standing on the chest of babies,throwing babies from a height,forcing people to put hands in hot oil to check if they are lying,tying up mentality unstable patients . I guess that wont happen in your life time...
Brainfade Posted August 26, 2013 Posted August 26, 2013 I think it should cover all religions,astrology,numerology ,feng shui,vastu ,tarrot readings...sab kuch ban ho jaye....:haha: But seriously...it should cover the stupid customs like branding with hot metals,standing on the chest of babies,throwing babies from a height,forcing people to put hands in hot oil to check if they are lying,tying up mentality unstable patients . Every one of those acts is an assault, and must be banned no matter what the underlying reason is (religion/superstition/personal vendetta). The assault, not the superstition, is the crime. It's like hate-crime laws in the US. Some murders are classified as "hate crimes." I don't see why they should be any different from a murder for any other reason. Murder is murder.
King Tendulkar Posted August 27, 2013 Posted August 27, 2013 1. No one deserves to die for any non violent expression of opinion. 2. Advertising services which you cannot realistically provide is fraud, religious or non religious. Its already against the law to murder someone! Just like its already against law to rape someone! Yet people talk about new laws. Its not new laws, its implementation of the laws that is required. But we have corruption, people litterally get away with murder. kejriwal anyone?
varun Posted August 27, 2013 Posted August 27, 2013 2. Advertising services which you cannot realistically provide is fraud, religious or non religious. All religion can be classified under that. For example, the promise of swarg, jannat, heaven for faithfully following a religion cannot be proved and could be classified as fraud. Religious belief by definition is blind faith. Many people actually believe that some of these superstitions work. I remember as a kid if I touched a book with my foot, I would then proceed to touch it to my head just as a superstition. Then there was the "kaali-billi raasta kaat gayi" superstition. I doubt the wisdom in trying to do a Mao style cultural-revolution eradication of these customs or superstitions. For change to happen in a painless and sustainable manner, it should happen organically rather than be enforced from the top.
coffee_rules Posted August 27, 2013 Posted August 27, 2013 We can certainly draw a line between harmless superstition and that costs lives/livelihood. If a God-man promises salvation in return of a person's life savings, he should be prosecuted and sent to jail. Human sacrifices, black magic that is done so that something bad is intended on a third person, hurting children for their own alleged welfare. This should cover God-men of all kind and religion, not just Hindus. Why should poor people from other religions suffer, isn't that's against secularism?
Detonator Posted August 27, 2013 Posted August 27, 2013 Exactly. When I said "why not ban that?" I was being facetious. Of course, you cannot take away people's right to practice religion. You also must not take away people's right to believe in superstition unless it harms another person (e.g., human sacrifice). And in case another person is harmed or killed, it is the harmful act that is punishable, not the superstition itself. Bottom line? The anti-superstition act is a joke. This. The crux may be "Ignorance is curable, stupidity is forever.". The motive of this thread's and the other thread with "Narendra we deserve" is height of stupidity.
The Outsider Posted August 28, 2013 Author Posted August 28, 2013 All religion can be classified under that. For example, the promise of swarg, jannat, heaven for faithfully following a religion cannot be proved and could be classified as fraud. Religious belief by definition is blind faith. Many people actually believe that some of these superstitions work. I remember as a kid if I touched a book with my foot, I would then proceed to touch it to my head just as a superstition. Then there was the "kaali-billi raasta kaat gayi" superstition. I doubt the wisdom in trying to do a Mao style cultural-revolution eradication of these customs or superstitions. For change to happen in a painless and sustainable manner, it should happen organically rather than be enforced from the top. The point is not about "kaali billi raasta kaat gayi" kind of superstitions. It's about people being hoodwinked out of their money and savings after being sold services which cannot be realistically provided. I would imagine it's reasonably straightforward to differentiate between touching a book to your head and someone trying to convince you that you will crack an interview if you make a donation of some amount. How is that different from a Ponzi scheme for which people go to jail, but don't when they carry out fraud in some other guise?
varun Posted August 28, 2013 Posted August 28, 2013 The point is not about "kaali billi raasta kaat gayi" kind of superstitions. It's about people being hoodwinked out of their money and savings after being sold services which cannot be realistically provided. Ok, this boils down to unkept promises based on monetary transactions (religious or otherwise). Trouble is, many people actually believe that whatever the "hoodwinker" did helped them. How do you deal with that ? If a person feels hoodwinked, he goes to court and gets justice. Don't we already have a law for that. What is the purpose of this law ? I would imagine it's reasonably straightforward to differentiate between touching a book to your head and someone trying to convince you that you will crack an interview if you make a donation of some amount. How is that different from a Ponzi scheme for which people go to jail, but don't when they carry out fraud in some other guise? IMO, the worst kind of scheme is not just looting money from people, but looting their whole life due to religious fantasies. Would you make a law to make religion illegal ?
The Outsider Posted August 29, 2013 Author Posted August 29, 2013 Ok' date=' this boils down to unkept promises based on monetary transactions (religious or otherwise). Trouble is, many people actually believe that whatever the "hoodwinker" did helped them. How do you deal with that ? [b']If a person feels hoodwinked, he goes to court and gets justice. Don't we already have a law for that. What is the purpose of this law ? When people give money to a Ponzi scheme, they do it willingly as well. But when they realize that they have been hoodwinked they have a legal recourse. However, I can't seem to recall any major convictions under the existing laws for being hoodwinked under superstitious guise. Even if a separate law is not needed, more convictions under existing laws are needed which can come only through awareness. How are people allowed to advertise taveezes worth thousands of rupees designed to cure all their ills on television? Would the law allow me to advertise an ordinary laptop as something that is going to do all household chores for you? I doubt it. IMO, the worst kind of scheme is not just looting money from people, but looting their whole life due to religious fantasies. Would you make a law to make religion illegal ? Yeah, but correcting that is much more tricky. Most people get inducted into religion by their parents at a very early age. Surely, the solution is not to throw parents into jail or putting children under social security if parents are teaching them about religion. That appears to be more detrimental to the society than being taught religion. On the other hand I don't see any downside of putting people in jail who are swindling people under the pretext of superstition.
seedhi Posted August 29, 2013 Posted August 29, 2013 How is homeopathy different from blind faith ? In a country where homeopathy is legal it is the height of hypocrisy to have a law against superstition. By the way the argument about people getting hoodwinked is tricky. This can lead to a pandora's box. For example, I have some illness and I go to a doctor who prescribes medicine and also takes payment, but suppose he fails to cure me - can I then sue him for fraud ? And what about clinical psychology? - there is a lot of controversy over its effectiveness. I think it is better if the law restricts itself to banning practices that cause physical harm to the patient/customer.
Crookbond Posted December 13, 2013 Posted December 13, 2013 Maharashtra Assembly passes anti-superstition bill http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/maharashtra-assembly-passes-anti-superstition-bill-458538
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