seedhi Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I did not keep harping about BJP - I've steadily maintained it was the BJP and SP, and this is not about these riots. It's about the mass polarization at work from both these parties in UP over the last few months - I am not the only one saying it, hazaar political analysts and local people have been saying it for months. It appears that I am harping about the BJP because there are no contradictory voices about SP. If posters start giving a clean chit to the SP, I would argue against it as vehemently as I am against the BJP. You are missing the big picture by bringing in BSP and Congress - yes, there are legislators involved from both of them as well, but from a party electoral perspective it makes zero sense for them to polarize the UP electorate along the Hindu-Muslim divide. I would have said the same thing about the BJP if there were riots between Dalits and Thakurs - it would make zero sense for the BJP to instigate such an action even if some of its legislators were involved.This is a completely flawed reading of the entire matter. The local level leaders of any party will try to get involved in such a situation to garner support. And Congress and BSP are also after the Muslim vote too. Recall that in the Durga Shakti Nagpal case, after the the mosque wall was demolished the Congress leaders had actually visited that area to rake up the issue and the SP suspended the DM to preempt the Congress. Thakur Dhirendra Singh, spokesperson for the UP Congress Committee and better known as the man on whose motorcycle Rahul rode pillion on May 11, 2011, to Bhatta, which had been hit by violent protests against the then BSP government's land acquisition policy, reached the village soon after the demolition of the wall. Singh confirmed to Mail Today over the telephone that he had rushed to the village after the wall was razed. However, he denied there was any programme involving a visit by senior Congress leaders to Kadalpur. But a letter sent by him to his party bosses on the same day (July 27) indicates that the Congress, which is gearing up for the 2014 Lok Sabha election, was set to attempt to hijack the minority vote bank from the SP by taking up this issue. "Members of the administration and police forced away the people who were offering namaz in village Kadalpur, in Dhankaur block of Gautam Budh Nagar, and destroyed the mosque," he wrote. "Sacrificing the mosque in this holy month of Ramzan is a big attack on the religious sentiments of villagers," he stated. http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/sp-aced-congress-on-muslim-card-by-suspending-ias-durga-shakti/1/298717.html No wonder the BSP, SP and Congress leaders were the first to take out the meeting on Aug 30 after the Friday prayers to exploit the situation. It is clear policy of cornering the Muslim vote that they are following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 This is a completely flawed reading of the entire matter. The local level leaders of any party will try to get involved in such a situation to garner support. And Congress and BSP are also after the Muslim vote too. Recall that in the Durga Shakti Nagpal case, after the the mosque wall was demolished the Congress leaders had actually visited that area to rake up the issue and the SP suspended the DM to preempt the Congress. Your understanding of what I said is completely flawed. I've never denied, in fact, readily accepted the involvement of local leaders from BSP and Congress for electoral gains. However, from a party strategy point of view that is self defeating. This is broadly how UP votes: 1. SP - Majority of Muslims and almost all Yadavs. 2. BSP - Almost all Dalits and a significant proportion of Thakurs and Brahmins. Some Muslim vote. 3. BJP - Almost all Baniyaas and remainder of upper caste Hindus. 4. Congress - Non Yadav OBCs and whatever remains of the Muslim vote. Some sprinkling of Thakur and Brahmin vote. Given the above reality, SP wants to corner almost all of the Muslim vote, BJP wants people to vote on religion rather than castes, BSP wants to attract more of the Thakur/Brahmin/Muslim vote and Congress wants to get more vote from anywhere. A Hindu-Muslim polarization benefits SP and BJP. A Yadav-Thakur polarization benefits BSP etc. There is no political calculus which says that BSP and Congress will benefit from a Hindu-Muslim divide, unless the SP is seen to be anti-Muslim as happened in the last elections with their alliance with Kalyan Singh, or if they strike an alliance. No wonder the BSP, SP and Congress leaders were the first to take out the meeting on Aug 30 after the Friday prayers to exploit the situation. It is clear policy of cornering the Muslim vote that they are following. Of course, Congress and BSP don't want to lose out on the Muslim vote, but creating a fractured Hindu-Muslim vote will hurt them the most, specially the BSP. Congress is anyways a side player in UP despite their impressive 20 sea tally last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 I didn't have my DVR switched on, else would have done it. http://www.dnaindia.com/india/1892091/report-denial-of-permission-to-rajnath-singh-to-visit-riot-hit-muzaffarnagar-undemocratic-bjp Ok, so Rajnath is crying Conspiracy... Crying conspiracy is hardly threatning of more violence as you were suggesting... Here's Congress crying conspiracy.. http://zeenews.india.com/news/uttar-pradesh/muzaffarnagar-riots-congress-protests-near-up-assembly-complex_876930.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Ok, so Rajnath is crying Conspiracy... Crying conspiracy is hardly threatning of more violence as you were suggesting... Here's Congress crying conspiracy.. http://zeenews.india.com/news/uttar-pradesh/muzaffarnagar-riots-congress-protests-near-up-assembly-complex_876930.html Bhaiyya, Ram Lala Hum Aayeinge Mandir Wahin Banayeinge days are gone with the increased media presence. Things are done through proxies now with expendable leaders like Uma Bharti, in case things go wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Bhaiyya, Ram Lala Hum Aayeinge Mandir Wahin Banayeinge days are gone with the increased media presence. Things are done through proxies now with expendable leaders like Uma Bharti, in case things go wrong. Oh ok, got it.. So Modi got it done through proxies like Rajnath > Uma Bharti.... And now SP has arrested the BJP MLA's I expect BJP to carry out it's threat soon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Oh ok' date=' got it.. So Modi got it done through proxies like Rajnath > Uma Bharti.... And now SP has arrested the BJP MLA's I expect BJP to carry out it's threat soon...[/quote'] Few months back when Amit Shah was placed in UP, many including me, had predicted this. When it happened there is furious activity to give him and Modi a clean chit. If I predict it's going to happen - or at least attempts will be made - multiple times till the elections, there will be more furious activity to give a clean chit to Shah and Modi. What's the point of trying to wake up people pretending to sleep? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saneindian Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 The sting exposing Azam Khan's direct involvement in escalation of the violence has been given a silent burial after a threat from him to the TV channel. Meanwhile Akhilesh Yadav has done his 'gangasnan' tour of NDTV and Tehelka studious to reaffirm his secular credentials (not sure if was needed as he proudly showed it by appearing publicly in the skullcap when Muzaafarnagar was burning) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saneindian Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 Amit Shah or no Amit Shah, UP has seen riots since Akhilesh took over, because of overt appeasement by SP to get an overwhelming support for LS polls. Remember the Mau riots under last Mulayam govt in 2005? Where were Modi and Shah then? What was common though is SP and its blind patronage to muslims don turned netas especially Mukhtar & Afzal Ansari and don Ateeq Ansari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I did not keep harping about BJP - I've steadily maintained it was the BJP and SP, and this is not about these riots. It's about the mass polarization at work from both these parties in UP over the last few months - I am not the only one saying it, hazaar political analysts and local people have been saying it for months. It appears that I am harping about the BJP because there are no contradictory voices about SP. If posters start giving a clean chit to the SP, I would argue against it as vehemently as I am against the BJP. You are missing the big picture by bringing in BSP and Congress - yes, there are legislators involved from both of them as well, but from a party electoral perspective it makes zero sense for them to polarize the UP electorate along the Hindu-Muslim divide. I would have said the same thing about the BJP if there were riots between Dalits and Thakurs - it would make zero sense for the BJP to instigate such an action even if some of its legislators were involved. I agree at this point BJP seems to be gaining most out of the situation but that doesn't mean that they orchestrate all the things they benefit from. They also benefit from all zillion scams congress ministers did, does that mean that they are behind those scams? They also benefit from dumbness that heir apprent Rahul Gandhi comes across pappu at the moment, would you blame BJP for that as well. There is nothing in these riots which can directly link BJP central leadership Modi, Shah, Rajnath to these riots, so all of these are desperate insinuations. On ground BJP is no more guilty than BSP and Congress and definitely less guilty than SP. Third time I posting in this thread. More riots happen in SP rule for 2 reasons. 1. All gunda element feels empowered and these are the ones who carry out riots - not the common man. 2. Police and Administration in interfered with massively. You can keep stirring your pot of Modi-Shah's involvement here, but no body is going to buy that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Government releases data of riot victims identifying religion http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Government-releases-data-of-riot-victims-identifying-religion/articleshow/22998550.cms Humara Congress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted September 25, 2013 Share Posted September 25, 2013 Government releases data of riot victims identifying religion http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Government-releases-data-of-riot-victims-identifying-religion/articleshow/22998550.cms Humara Congress I guess its not that bad to release such data when the casualty frm both communities is comparable like is the case in india. Otherwise, people may spread lies tht one particular comm. is suffering primarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Government releases data of riot victims identifying religion http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Government-releases-data-of-riot-victims-identifying-religion/articleshow/22998550.cms Humara Congress Why category victims on basics of religion (and why only 2 then?) in secular India by a party which believes it has a birthright on India. Next, where is the Assam riots, West Bengal riots? Are those secular riots that deserve no mention and thus perfectly justified or non existent? Somebody please answer on how our central government can continue to give a such a wrong information and yet not be questioned at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted September 27, 2013 Share Posted September 27, 2013 Why category victims on basics of religion (and why only 2 then?) in secular India by a party which believes it has a birthright on India. Next, where is the Assam riots, West Bengal riots? Are those secular riots that deserve no mention and thus perfectly justified or non existent? Somebody please answer on how our central government can continue to give a such a wrong information and yet not be questioned at all. Figures in communal states is interesting. Secularwadis who don't like facts can take note. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted September 28, 2013 Share Posted September 28, 2013 Figures in communal states is interesting. Secularwadis who don't like facts can take note. Secularwadis, they pride on misinformation and Nazi level propaganda. It doesn't look good for our central government to purposefully give such a incorrect and yet sensitive information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 dna @dna 15m Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde asks all chief ministers to ensure that no innocent person of minority community is unduly detained. so what about innocents from majority community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 so what about innocents from majority community? Ouch! And that is our central government sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 so what about innocents from majority community? Ouch! And that is our central government sadly. Some people here may say that its mere trolling by the gov. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoda-esque Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Figures in communal states is interesting. Secularwadis who don't like facts can take note. Data is powerful,isnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 so what about innocents from majority community? Statement is wrong if you look in the context of these riots only, but arrests of youths from minority community on terrorism charges is something that needs to be looked into. These large number of arrests have been complained widely and if you look at various news reports on daily basis, you would realize there are enough youths from minority community who were detained for years only to be released later as no charges were proven. That needs some attention. But I agree that has nothing to do in the case of MuzaffarNagar riots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Statement is wrong if you look in the context of these riots only, but arrests of youths from minority community on terrorism charges is something that needs to be looked into. These large number of arrests have been complained widely and if you look at various news reports on daily basis, you would realize there are enough youths from minority community who were detained for years only to be released later as no charges were proven. That needs some attention. But I agree that has nothing to do in the case of MuzaffarNagar riots. Could have been better worded "no innocent gets unduly prosecuted"... but congress has to show its secularism, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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