Australia's Ashes triumph could spell the end for some of England's senior players. - David Lloyd

[Scarves]

Talking about batting You had Mike Hussey' date=' Clarkey didn't you?[/quote'] Clarke averaged 22 and Ricky was in poor form. The best batsmen were Hussey and Haddin. Hughes played 2 games, Khawaja played one and allrounder Steve Smith played a couple. Those were dark times.

[vvvslaxman]

Clarke averaged 22 and Ricky was in poor form. The best batsmen were Hussey and Haddin. Hughes played 2 games, Khawaja played one and allrounder Steve Smith played a couple. Those were dark times.

Team itself is not bad. Form is. That can happen to any side. Imagine Clarkey went out of form this time. This would have been the worst side. It all comes down to form. On paper that team is far better than this if you add katich as well. I mean in the batting department. In the bowling that team did not have rejuvenated Johnson to bully them.

[Scarves]

I was aware of the form which is why I felt this team was better because they were all in good touch from great preparation with Shield and Ryobi and I hate to say it but those 7 ODIs in India which should have been 5. The 10/11 was terrible prep and players out of touch which was why they sucked badly.

[putrevus]

Problem is this Australian side is not that good side. Worse than the one ENgland faced last time. This one is made up of T20' date=' ODI specialists. No real spin threat. Just 3 seamers. England came in as favorites so much so some even claimed 5-0 whitewash. This Australian side will give England a run for their money if they roll out flat surfaces in ENgland. If there is no conditions for swing they could even lose a test or two.[/quote'] I Think England got complacent much like Indians got complacent after winning first test against England at home last year. When ever underdogs get confidence they become so hard to beat and incidents like Trott happen , it is like snow ball effect which only makes the slide faster.

[putrevus]

Yeah which is why people always bring up that series against Pakistan and India were considered to be a shoo in for No.1 since Australia was considered to be weak and England lost in UAE against Pakistan. The team had a better lineup and couldn't make any runs there and considering how good they were, it was nothing to do with bounce because all of those 4 players average well in Australia. Australia was piss weak in the 10/11 Ashes and were easily outclassed by a strong England, especially if you look at form and the squads. Yeah and India lost 3-1 against England as well in a 4 match series at home after leading the first test.

England lost in UAE while they were no1 and when India lost 4-0 in Australia if I am not wrong I don't think India had any chance of becoming no1. You are right Indians had no business losing that series 0-4.I think like England did this series many Indians must have underestimated Aussie team then it came to bite their behinds big time. You are right it is not that Indian batsmen were capable of playing in Australia or for that matter in England when they lost 0-4 there also, it was totally unexpected , all Indian players had excellent records in England and Australia. When visiting team is favorite like India was and England was for this series and first test they get the loss and second test home team is on a roll the whole complexion of the series changes. I disagree 2011 Ashes Aussies was not that weak they just ran into some bad luck and England team played out of their skins which they had never done before and have never done since again. Indians lost 1-2 to england.I think that is first home loss for Indian team in 12 years I would not put much stock into it . SA lost a test to SL that too at home these things happen once in while.

[vvvslaxman]

I Think England got complacent much like Indians got complacent after winning first test against England at home last year. When ever underdogs get confidence they become so hard to beat and incidents like Trott happen , it is like snow ball effect which only makes the slide faster.

Complacent is a complement. More like they were bullied, Terrified. They did not even want to face Johnson at the Gabba. At the first sight they tried to get to other end. It psychologically brought them down. It is not like England did not try. They tried all methods. Counterattacking, trying to pull Johnson bouncers, Tried to grind ( carberry). But Aussies were relentless.

[CG]

If anybody followed the ashes in england,He knows how lucky england were it was bell and lower order which saved their ass.Australia attack with harris who is clearly one of the top bowler sod the world and siddle,pattinson,johnson will be deadly in england along with lyon.Its battle to decide who the weaker batting lineup is but with the experience gained by aus batting lineup and warner inclusion it will be a good fight.

[vvvslaxman]

If anybody followed the ashes in england' date='He knows how lucky england were it was bell and lower order which saved their ass.Australia attack with harris who is clearly one of the top bowler sod the world and siddle,pattinson,johnson will be deadly in england along with lyon.Its battle to decide who the weaker batting lineup is but with the experience gained by aus batting lineup and warner inclusion it will be a good fight.[/quote'] Yup They went with Ashton Agar :cantstop: for some inexplicable reason . Call it a gut feeling. But it didn't work except when Agar made 98 runs.

[putrevus]

Complacent is a complement. More like they were bullied' date=' Terrified. They did not even want to face Johnson at the Gabba. At the first sight they tried to get to other end. It psychologically brought them down. It is not like England did not try. They tried all methods. Counterattacking, trying to pull Johnson bouncers, Tried to grind ( carberry). But Aussies were relentless.[/quote'] They were bullied all right but this bullying they did not expect, they never thought Johnson would be major factor and were caught surprised. ECB like BCCI has screwed its team royally. I can guarantee you if this had happened last time Ashes in 2011 back to back Ashes would not even be considered but ECB thought it had caught Aussies in wrong time with weak teams thought it would be cake walk for its team to win Ashes again and with Ashes out of the way they can really contend for world cup next year.

[vvvslaxman]

They were bullied all right but this bullying they did not expect, they never thought Johnson would be major factor and were caught surprised. ECB like BCCI has screwed its team royally. I can guarantee you if this had happened last time Ashes in 2011 back to back Ashes would not even be considered but ECB thought it had caught Aussies in wrong time with weak teams thought it would be cake walk for its team to win Ashes again and with Ashes out of the way they can really contend for world cup next year.

If you are going to see Steve Smith walking in at 5 it is justifiable to be haughty for any side let alone England. But i am pretty sure they would not have under-estimated their bowling. Australian bowling was good even in England. They came here with elaborate preparation. They sure expected a bit of backlash. Australia rendered even SA bowling ineffective on flat pitches before getting owned in the final test.

[Switchblade]

I can understand why fans are angry but dropping KP, Swann and Anderson will not make England any better is what Nas has to say http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2525150/The-Ashes-2013-14-Dropping-Kevin-Pietersen-Graeme-Swann-James-Anderson-make-England-better--Nasser-Hussian.html. I can understand the emotions that England fans both in Australia and back home will be going through right now. They’ll feel let down after spending plenty of money to come out here and support their team – or staying up at night to watch them on TV. The knee-jerk reaction to a situation like this is that wholesale changes need to be made but I always ask the question in these circumstances: who can England bring in? Are they a better side without Kevin Pietersen, Graeme Swann or Jimmy Anderson? No. What matters is that these guys, with their impressive records, start to deliver. If I were captain, I’d be looking at each player and asking myself whether I could see mental scarring. On the evidence of England’s second innings at the WACA, I didn’t see that. But I’d also want to know whether all my players still have the hunger, the pride and the skill. Do they want it enough to play well in the next two Tests and to be around for 2015, when England will have the chance to win the Ashes back? All these guys have got two games to show that all those qualities are still there. People have asked whether the Aussies have just been hungrier than our lads. There’s no easy answer, except to say that payback is always a strong motivator. You just had to listen to the way Mitchell Johnson and Ryan Harris spoke after the game to realise that they had become fed up of losing to England. They wanted those Ashes back. And it was quite telling that Michael Clarke was the only member of that Australian side to have won the Ashes before. I just hope that some of the England guys with all those caps to their name and those fine records are not starting to think about life beyond cricket. The last thing England need is to lose this series 5-0, because then the mental scarring starts to afflict them when it’s been afflicting Australia for the previous three series. Alastair Cook has to learn from this experience. So far in his career, he’s learned very quickly – both as an opening batsman and a captain. But it will be his toughest test yet to come back from this. He needs to look at Clarke and work out when to defend and when to attack. And he has to decide how he wants this side to progress, who the players are he wants by his side as the team moves forward. In that respect, the century made by Ben Stokes was tremendous. For a while now, England have struggled to find a No 6, they’ve struggled to find an all-rounder, and they’ve struggled to find a guy who balances the side by allowing them to play five bowlers. Just as I don’t want to be too down on some of the senior players, I don’t want to build Stokes up too much and I don’t like the fact that comparisons are already being made with Sir Ian Botham and Andrew Flintoff. But I’m seriously impressed with the way Stokes has turned his career round after being sent home from an England Lions tour of Australia earlier this year for disciplinary reasons. It’s a great example of what you can achieve on the field if you turn your life around off it. Speaking of turnarounds, hats off to the Australians. The difference between the side that took the field at Trent Bridge in the summer and this one is just remarkable. They’ve been galvanised by Darren Lehmann off the field and Clarke on it, and they’ve spent the last few Ashes Tests shuffling their side around until they’ve found a formula that works. And it works. This series has basically been the same Test three times: England get blown away in the first innings, and can’t catch up. Credit to Australia. But let’s not make life even harder for England by dropping the whole lot of them

[JourneyMan]

I can understand England being disappointed with the manner in which they lost the Ashes but when one looks at their overall performance this past year then it really has been very good. You don't end careers just over one tour, even less so when it's against a fierce competitor on home turf. I was surprised that Finn wasn't given a go, he looked really good not too long ago. You can't be too quick in writing off a player, especially when they show the kind of promise Finn did.

[diga]

I can understand why fans are angry but dropping KP' date= Swann and Anderson will not make England any better is what Nas has to say http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-2525150/The-Ashes-2013-14-Dropping-Kevin-Pietersen-Graeme-Swann-James-Anderson-make-England-better--Nasser-Hussian.html. The knee-jerk reaction to a situation like this is that wholesale changes need to be made but I always ask the question in these circumstances: who can England bring in? Are they a better side without Kevin Pietersen, Graeme Swann or Jimmy Anderson? No. Credit to Australia. But let’s not make life even harder for England by dropping the whole lot of them

no mention of Prior by Nasser.. Bairstow, get ready

[cowboysfan]

this is blown completely out of proportion,most of these guys are still young or have many years left in them.the batsmen have not performed like they did last time they were in Australia,this doesnt mean they are in terminal decline and it also doesnt mean the aussies are suddenly world beaters.

[diga]

this is blown completely out of proportion' date='most of these guys are still young or have many years left in them.the batsmen have not performed like they did last time they were in Australia,this doesnt mean they are in terminal decline and it also doesnt mean the aussies are suddenly world beaters.[/quote'] KP-33/prior-31/Swann-34/Anderson-31/Carberry-33/Bell-31/Trott-33/Tremlett-32... they will be the dad's army for the next ashes

[cowboysfan]

KP-33/prior-31/Swann-34/Anderson-31/Carberry-33/Bell-31... they will be the dad's army for the next ashes

this series would have been vastly different had the poms managed to limit the aussies in the first innings of every match where they let them off the hook,most of these guys have atleast one more Ashes left in them and it will be in England and i guarantee they will be favorites to win.

[diga]

this series would have been vastly different had the poms managed to limit the aussies in the first innings of every match where they let them off the hook' date='most of these guys have atleast one more Ashes left in them and it will be in England and i guarantee they will be favorites to win.[/quote'] Some will surely play the next Ashes in England,but not all.. If Eng dont start rebuilding, then Eng are in for more pain. And what better time to rebuild the side than in the 2 dead rubber matches of this Ashes

[cowboysfan]

Some will surely play the next Ashes in England' date='but not all.. If Eng dont start rebuilding, then Eng are in for more pain. And what better time to rebuild the side than in the 2 dead rubber matches of this Ashes[/quote'] arent they already rebuilding? Root,Stokes and Carberry are new and they are not going anywhere.

[CG]

arent they already rebuilding? Root' date='Stokes and Carberry are new and they are not going anywhere.[/quote'] carberry is no longterm prospect,its better to give nick compton a chance or some others a chance.