Afghanistan cricket support thread

[G_B_]

^ are you Afghani?

[velu]

Right maybe as far as batting ( Not in T20s ) or spin bowling is concerned but if we select 10 random guys from Bangladesh who are likely to be as tall and strong as a Tamim or a Mominul and select 10 random guys from Afghanistan who are likely to be as tall and strong as a Shapur or a Nabi. Then after being taught the same basics of fast bowling , which group of 10 is going to be better at bowling at faster raw speeds ?

i am not still sld about being big for pace.. fast bowling need more endurance and fitness than anything else .. lee , waqar , steyn , bond etc are on the slimmer side than heavier side :two_thumbs_up: being heavy might help in big hitting .. but again there is a jayawardane for every afridi

[div]

Right maybe as far as batting ( Not in T20s ) or spin bowling is concerned but if we select 10 random guys from Bangladesh who are likely to be as tall and strong as a Tamim or a Mominul and select 10 random guys from Afghanistan who are likely to be as tall and strong as a Shapur or a Nabi. Then after being taught the same basics of fast bowling , which group of 10 is going to be better at bowling at faster raw speeds ?

But,Mohammad Shami is quicker than Darren Sammy.

[Crookbond]

Cricket is primarily still a skill based game. You can have skills and not be fit (Ex - Sehwag) to be one of the greats. You can be supremely fit and not have the skills (Ex - Darren Sammy) while still being an average player.

[G_B_]

He does have a point when he says Afghanistan have a better physical stature to produce pacers. However physical traits are not everything. Cricket basically is a multi skilled game. Realistically India Sri Lanka Bangladesh are not going to produce world class pacers. So these teams need to compensate and produce strong batsman and spinners. Field extremely well. Be on the ball with tactics. Even within the pacer category, realistically India Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are not going to produce 90mph pacers. So you need to produce good calibre trundlers. Looking at Bangladesh in this match. They have Afghanistan 95/5. But there was no plan. Maybe the BD coaches need to do their homework and work out there to bowl to the Afghani batsman. Even Afghanistan need to compensate in other areas compared to some european team. 10 people in England or Australia are going to have better physical stature than Afghanis. Plus they are backed by much better infrastructure. I would say Pakistan have produced 4 world class seamers. Imran Wasim Waqar maybe a case can be made for Akther. You look at teams like WI, Aus, England SA and they have many more world class seamers compared to Pakistan. There in lay the problem for a team like Pakistan. They are not the world's leading seam bowler producing country (that will probably goto Aus or SA). So they have to compensate in other sectors like spin and batting and fielding.

[TNAmarkFrmIndia]

I do wish BCCI offered Afghanistan help in terms of coaching and practice, but none of that's going to happen obviously. The most that might happen is a few IPL teams going for their bowlers (unless Afghans will be barred from playing the IPL just like Pakis). They have a lot of potential and even their young players did very well in the U19 World Cup.

[rageaddict]

Lets be honest , if ICC grants Test Status to Afghanistan for 15 years they would produce a much better team ,especially better fast bowlers compared to Bangladeshi KachraPETI that has produced the likes of Mashrafe Mortaza , Syed Rasel , Rubel Hossain , Shahadat Hossain including a million Slow Left Arm bowlers. The Afghans are modelling their Cricket over the same lines as Pakistan and more importantly they have the ability to do so. 15 years ago the Afghans were nowhere near the Cricket scene even on associate level but their rise in the last few years has been so fast that they are suddenly battling it out with the Big Boys of Cricket.

[Tiger80]

Cricket is primarily still a skill based game. You can have skills and not be fit (Ex - Sehwag) to be one of the greats. You can be supremely fit and not have the skills (Ex - Darren Sammy) while still being an average player.

Yes in batting you primarily need skills but apart from skills you need mental toughness and I think this is the main area where Bangladeshi's are lacking behind .Several time commentators point to few batsmen of BD who show great talent but many of them do stupid blunders .Also whenever load of expectation is put on BD to win , they loose.remember beating SA IN 07 but losing to Ireland in next match

[The Outsider]

I would say Pakistan have produced 4 world class seamers. Imran Wasim Waqar maybe a case can be made for Akther. You look at teams like WI, Aus, England SA and they have many more world class seamers compared to Pakistan. There in lay the problem for a team like Pakistan. They are not the world's leading seam bowler producing country (that will probably goto Aus or SA). So they have to compensate in other sectors like spin and batting and fielding.

Fazal Mehmood. Also, Amir and Asif might not have the long term numbers to be considered world class, but purely from cricketing abilities both were.

[maniac]

Fazal Mehmood. Also' date=' Amir and Asif might not have the long term numbers to be considered world class, but purely from cricketing abilities both were.[/quote'] I will not jump on the Aamir band wagon yet...Yes he looked like the real deal during the Eng series but prior to that he looked like a kid with immense potential. So just because he had one succesful series (i am clubbing the Aus vs Pak in Eng) and showed potential we can't assume much from that. Case can be made of Asif but then Case can be made for Aaquib Javed and sarfaraz Nawaz as well.

[Square Drive]

Congrats for the Afghanistan team and their fans :two_thumbs_up: Was keen to see them play more after their T20 WC appearance in SL. They can be a very good LOI side no doubt. But I want to see how they do in a 3-4 day match against a decent opposition before commenting on test potential.

[G_B_]

Fazal Mehmood. Also' date=' Amir and Asif might not have the long term numbers to be considered world class, but purely from cricketing abilities both were.[/quote'] ifs and buts....they IMO have not played enough cricket. I really rate Shane Bond for example. But he would not make my list of great bowlers. Fazal Mahmood fair enough. Yes you are right. so thats 5 world class pacers pakistan has produced in 60 plus years of playing cricket. By world class I mean somebody who has played more than 30 tests and averages less than 26 with the ball. Thats less than teams like WI England, and Australia. South africa since readmission have had the likes of Pollock Donald and now Steyn and Philander with good numbers. Thats 4 right there. Their legendary team of the 70s contained many awesome pacers. The point in all this is that, yes Pakistan have produced some very good pace bowlers. But lets not make them out to be this big factory of pace bowling. Nations such as England, Australia and South Africa have produced more pacers with better numbers. Now you can argue that Pakistan have produced 5 world class pacers and 2 world class spinners. (Ajmal Saqlain) which countries such as West Indies and South africa have not produced.(the spinners anyways). Afghanistan cannot simply say they have good fast bowlers. If they maintain the theory of being of similar stock to Pakistan. They will need to develop their spin and batting in equal measure.

[Square Drive]

Agree cricket is mainly a skill based game (no argument for batting specially). But when it comes to bowling I think some qualities (strength, size or suppleness) of the wrist, palm and fingers help some guys to control the seam better and transfer maximum force to the delivery during the release (applies to both spinners and fast bowlers). For example some bowlers can bowl extremely fast with lighter practice balls with amazing arm speeds, but when tried with a proper cricket ball most of that speed get vanished at the release point. Even then I think there are exercises to get stronger in those finer muscle areas in the hand (like they do in martial arts, not other means :giggle:). Another important area of the bowling action that genetics might have an effect is how you land your front leg. Bowlers like Jeff Thomson and Bret Lee landed their front leg with a locked knee which helps the bowler to get maximum pace and bounce from their bowling action. But SC fast bowlers can hardly survive without serious injuries if they emulate similar bowling actions. But then again bowlers like Malinga or Akram bamboozled the batsmen with basically upper body based actions.

[maniac]

ifs and buts....they IMO have not played enough cricket. I really rate Shane Bond for example. But he would not make my list of great bowlers. Fazal Mahmood fair enough. Yes you are right. so thats 5 world class pacers pakistan has produced in 60 plus years of playing cricket. By world class I mean somebody who has played more than 30 tests and averages less than 26 with the ball. Thats less than teams like WI England, and Australia. South africa since readmission have had the likes of Pollock Donald and now Steyn and Philander with good numbers. Thats 4 right there. Their legendary team of the 70s contained many awesome pacers. The point in all this is that, yes Pakistan have produced some very good pace bowlers. But lets not make them out to be this big factory of pace bowling. Nations such as England, Australia and South Africa have produced more pacers with better numbers. Now you can argue that Pakistan have produced 5 world class pacers and 2 world class spinners. (Ajmal Saqlain) which countries such as West Indies and South africa have not produced.(the spinners anyways). Afghanistan cannot simply say they have good fast bowlers. If they maintain the theory of being of similar stock to Pakistan. They will need to develop their spin and batting in equal measure.

I rate Qadir over Ajmal but yeah Ajmal is good...so that makes 3...As far as Fazal Mahmood goes-it is a case of the Bradman Syndrome but anyways let us assume he was world class too. But on Topic I think Afghanistan have made the strongest case for an associate ever since the days of Srilanka and Zimbabwe maybe.....Don't remember anything of Srilanka before they were test playing nation...Same with Zimbabwe who became a full member in 92 and from vague memories when they were an associate I remember they were fairly decent. Bangladesh who i think did not deserve a test status when they got it...In recent times they have improved as they can be decent at home and given the revenue they can genrate thanks to the following fair enough that they are a test playing nation. So leaves us with the 3 associate sides that have made a certain level of impact Afghanistan,Kenya and Ireland. Afghan and Ireland are superior than any associate side I ever saw and I have questions about the pool of players in Ireland with ECB poaching their decent players.SO in the end I think Afghan are very good,the game is popular there and I think it's only up from here and if they can play it smart like running the trade from their Pak neighbors by playing in their domestic leagues and being good to BCCI that will open them up to a lot more oppurtunities,I think we will see some surprises in the future

[alexander]

Its always funny to see Bangladesh lose. :hysterical:

[The Outsider]

I think maniac and GB missed the context of my post. It is not to say Asif and Amir would break into some all time XI. The context was that they had/have the fast bowling ingredients to be world class. Flipping it around in the Indian context, if Kohli was to end his career today for some reason, it would most likely disqualify him from being finding a spot in an all time Indian XI, due to lack of numbers. However, it is safe to say that Kohli is a world class batsman from India, measured on ability.

[keith]

He does have a point when he says Afghanistan have a better physical stature to produce pacers. However physical traits are not everything. Cricket basically is a multi skilled game. Realistically India Sri Lanka Bangladesh are not going to produce world class pacers. So these teams need to compensate and produce strong batsman and spinners. Field extremely well. Be on the ball with tactics. Even within the pacer category, realistically India Sri Lanka and Bangladesh are not going to produce 90mph pacers. Even Afghanistan need to compensate in other areas compared to some european team. 10 people in England or Australia are going to have better physical stature than Afghanis. Plus they are backed by much better infrastructure.

Sorry, I completely disagree with everything you've posted here. India and Sri Lanka aren't going to produce 90mph pacers? They already have. Multiple times. The genetic diversity between two individuals of the same ethnic group is far, far greater than the genetic diversity across two different ethnic groups. So even if one group might be characteristically bigger and stronger (Polynesians, African Americans perhaps), the outliers within the groups are going to contribute far more heavily in a sporting context. And when you're talking about large populations there is without doubt the physical characteristics present. Even ignoring that whole argument, India isn't comprised of one ethnic group. I'd bet that there's as much genetic diversity in India as there is across half or Europe. Far more important than any perceived genetic inferiority is the grassroots culture and conditioning in producing this talent. If Bangladesh continues to produce the pitches that they have for this Asia cup, then yes, they will never produce a decent fast bowler. Similarly, if they continue to only play 1 seamer in test cricket, they will go backwards.

[Asim]

They should be given some fair chances of playing Int cricket in Aus/NZ before next world cup though.

[Sir john]

@velu :orderorder: i support zim/windies/kenya onlyz :two_thumbs_up: dont give a damn about othere now days i support PNG/ZIM/WIN/UAE onlyz :yoyo: :bye:

[tweaker]

I was impressed by Afghanistan performance.Inspite of so many hurdles,they are formidable team.Their bowling is good.