MCcricket Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Did Plunkett have a FC average of 67+? Has he been picked only because he is FAST or also because he's shown in last 15 months that he can take FC wickets? BTW in the 1st test Plunkett was bowling a lot faster on an average than he did on a helpful surface with good bounce, here he would have been around 85-86 mph occasionally hitting 90-91 mph, at Lord's he was around 88-89 and regularly hitting 90 mph. Maybe bowling FAST alone isn't the solution but accuracy (and ability to move the ball) matters a little bit as well Its about the bowler imposing himself, once the bowler has the batsmen's respect then he is always a bit wary , even Steyn is not an out n out fast bowler or even fast most occasions he bowls f/m but them always can change gears and the batsmen knows that, a complete bowler has skills to match and pace when needed not just pace alone or skills can do it, example Tait , WI bowlers and skills but no pace PK, AND MANY OTHER TRUNDLERS.
rkt.india Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Did Plunkett have a FC average of 67+? Has he been picked only because he is FAST or also because he's shown in last 15 months that he can take FC wickets? BTW in the 1st test Plunkett was bowling a lot faster on an average than he did on a helpful surface with good bounce, here he would have been around 85-86 mph occasionally hitting 90-91 mph, at Lord's he was around 88-89 and regularly hitting 90 mph. Maybe bowling FAST alone isn't the solution but accuracy (and ability to move the ball) matters a little bit as well Here difference is the pitch, not pace. It is more bouncier pitch and has more pace than Lords.
saneindian Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Here difference is the pitch' date=' not pace. It is more bouncier pitch and has more pace than Lords.[/quote'] And forget Plunkett, even Ishant would do well on such a pitch :--D Our problem is pitches abroad which do not have much help for seamers- thats where the current captain and the bowling line up looks totally confused. And in those situations, I am not sure if even Umesh with his current problems is a solution. Shami is the only one I have hopes from and hopefully will be fresh after 5-6 weeks of break Umesh though has a god sent opportunity with the India A squad, needs to use that chance to correct the issues in his FC bowling
putrevus Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Here difference is the pitch' date=' not pace. It is more bouncier pitch and has more pace than Lords.[/quote'] Common you have agree Yadav has to learn how to take wickets , he is not going shock any of the international batsmen with his pace, so he need skills too. If you look at Akash Chopra's analysis clip he posted on his twitter account which confirmed my suspicions about him not finishing his run up properly. He was just ambling in his run up with no purposeful strides and slower in his run up on his second spell than first spell so he was reaching to crease late in second spell. If it was Yadav not Binny who had 6/4 spell , you can bet your bottom dollar he would have been in England before first test. He will get his chances 5 tests is long series so let us wait and see what he can do.
saneindian Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 To be fair to Umesh, he was totally sapped in the 2nd spell due to the heat and humidity in 1st ODI and he looked almost dehydrated. 2nd match he was definitely poor, as you said a good haul there and he could have given himself a great chance of being added to the Eng tour squad.
rkt.india Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Common you have agree Yadav has to learn how to take wickets , he is not going shock any of the international batsmen with his pace, so he need skills too. If you look at Akash Chopra's analysis clip he posted on his twitter account which confirmed my suspicions about him not finishing his run up properly. He was just ambling in his run up with no purposeful strides and slower in his run up on his second spell than first spell so he was reaching to crease late in second spell. If it was Yadav not Binny who had 6/4 spell , you can bet your bottom dollar he would have been in England before first test. He will get his chances 5 tests is long series so let us wait and see what he can do. Umesh has an SR of 46 despite playing 5 of his 9 tests in India and you are saying he cannot pick wickets. Dont mix ODIs with tests. Other than that, he is nor in squad. At least needed to be in squad id not in XI. He will be in Aus during this time.
putrevus Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Umesh has an SR of 46 despite playing 5 of his 9 tests in India and you are saying he cannot pick wickets. Dont mix ODIs with tests. 5 tests is too small sample for analysis of this guy's talent and those were before his injury. It does not mean a thing in the long run and it has proven again and again this guy needs to get his act together.
rkt.india Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 And forget Plunkett, even Ishant would do well on such a pitch :--D Our problem is pitches abroad which do not have much help for seamers- thats where the current captain and the bowling line up looks totally confused. And in those situations, I am not sure if even Umesh with his current problems is a solution. Shami is the only one I have hopes from and hopefully will be fresh after 5-6 weeks of break Umesh though has a god sent opportunity with the India A squad, needs to use that chance to correct the issues in his FC bowling This pitch is no perth or Wellington. It has bounce but you need to exploit that and There are several bowlers with better performance in county but why dis they only only pick Plunkett. They looked at the pace. Plunkett 33 wickets at 26 in 10 matches, Jack Brooks has done far better, but he isnt as quick, so not picked. Regarding being effective on flat tracks, you need some pace there so that you can work out different things. We must play at least one bowler who can make things happen in such situation bowling quick, bowl bouncer, get reverse and bowl yorkers, surprise weapon when no conventional swing,like Steyn did to us at Durban.
rkt.india Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 5 tests is too small sample for analysis of this guy's talent and those were before his injury. It does not mean a thing in the long run and it has proven again and again this guy needs to get his act together. total 9 tests, 5 in India and 4 in Aus with SR 46. Problem is injury happened in late 2012 and the bowler who was our best pacer before that has not played a single test since then. He was never good in ODIs. So, why you are already judging him based on ODIs where he was never good. I would have agreed if he had played tests after that and fared poorly. A guy who got 5-6 wickets in 4 tests in Aus still being played every match. But one who gor fifer there cannot even make the squad.
putrevus Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 total 9 tests' date=' 5 in India and 4 in Aus with SR 46. Problem is injury happened in late 2012 and the bowler who was our best pacer before that has not played a single test since then. He was never good in ODIs. So, why you are already judging him based on ODIs where he was never good. I would have agreed if he had played tests after that and fared poorly. A guy who got 5-6 wickets in 4 tests in Aus still being played every match. But one who gor fifer there cannot even make the squad.[/quote'] He was injured so others got his place mainly it was Ishant.He sure belongs to be on tour may be he will let us wait and see. He did play FC and he was not good there either so you have see from him also that will he is wanting to get back into team. You keep harping on how well he did in Australia no he did not that well, he was smashed in Sydney, in perth they added more than 200 runs for first wicket yes he did take 5 wickets after that it was not a great performance. In Indian tests any pacer stats you have to take with grain of salt as they have the luxury of relying on spinners to do the donkey's work which they do not have when playing overseas. That second spell starts far faster and the third spell which they don't get in India will be thrust ed on them and expect wickets from them. Thats why Zak with his fitness never could be consistent match winner abroad even though he had skills better than lot of other Indian bowlers. But let us not be under illusions that this guy once in test squad will run thru sides it is not going to happen he is not that good.
vvvslaxman Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Like RP singh walked into the side middle of the series Umesh has a chance to come back for England series. Aaron has a surprise inclusion there. Probably even he was surprised. He should grab it with both hands. Given a choice one would rather get picked for a 5 test series in England rather than 3 match ODI series in Bangladesh. He has good group of bowlers to bowl with. Shami, Bhuvan, Stuart Binny (okay kidding)... We are going to be up against a disciplined, patient England side. So you need someone to rattle them from time to time. Aaron might have to play that role.
express bowling Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Like RP singh walked into the side middle of the series Umesh has a chance to come back for England series. Aaron has a surprise inclusion there. Probably even he was surprised. He should grab it with both hands. Given a choice one would rather get picked for a 5 test series in England rather than 3 match ODI series in Bangladesh. He has good group of bowlers to bowl with. Shami' date=' Bhuvan, Stuart Binny (okay kidding)... We are going to be up against a disciplined, patient England side. So you need someone to rattle them from time to time. Aaron might have to play that role.[/quote'] Among the Indian pacers we have at this point, Aaron is the most suited to take the intimidating fast bowler's role.
gattaca Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Among the Indian pacers we have at this point' date=' Aaron is the most suited to take the intimidating fast bowler's role.[/quote'] Does he bowl any good bouncers well directed I mean. I haven't seen do that in Odis.
express bowling Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Regarding Umesh Yadav's selection, the only pertinent question is, " Is he amongst the top six test quality pacers in India ? " . The answer is a simple yes.
express bowling Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Does he bowl any good bouncers well directed I mean. I haven't seen do that in Odis. He can and does bowl well directed and quick bouncers and attacks the batsmen's body from time to time. Did that plenty of times in this year's IPL, especially when they were playing in the UAE.
moniker Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 5 tests is too small sample for analysis of this guy's talent and those were before his injury. It does not mean a thing in the long run and it has proven again and again this guy needs to get his act together. He was injured so others got his place mainly it was Ishant.He sure belongs to be on tour may be he will let us wait and see. He did play FC and he was not good there either so you have see from him also that will he is wanting to get back into team. You keep harping on how well he did in Australia no he did not that well, he was smashed in Sydney, in perth they added more than 200 runs for first wicket yes he did take 5 wickets after that it was not a great performance. In Indian tests any pacer stats you have to take with grain of salt as they have the luxury of relying on spinners to do the donkey's work which they do not have when playing overseas. That second spell starts far faster and the third spell which they don't get in India will be thrust ed on them and expect wickets from them. Thats why Zak with his fitness never could be consistent match winner abroad even though he had skills better than lot of other Indian bowlers. But let us not be under illusions that this guy once in test squad will run thru sides it is not going to happen he is not that good. You are contradicting yourself here. If 5 tests is not a good enough sample size then the last FC season alone does not reflect the guys talent either. If you want to see how he performs in the long run then take his FC stats as a whole. Averages 28.8 and strikes at every 50 balls. Shows that he's an attacking option as reflected by his test career so far, and though his average takes a slight hit due to his poor economy should be used primarily as a strike bowler.
saneindian Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Sorry, intimidation is not something Umesh/Aaron are good at. Can't remember one spell from them in international or domestic cricket where they roughed up batsmen and got a chunk of wickets Lets be realistic on what they can actually do right now.
renjith Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 Sorry, intimidation is not something Umesh/Aaron are good at. Can't remember one spell from them in international or domestic cricket where they roughed up batsmen and got a chunk of wickets Lets be realistic on what they can actually do right now. +1. lets hope aaron will do a decent job. don;t over expect like he will intimidate eng batsman. infact aaron bowling at 90 mph was taken to the cleaners by even bang batsman. none of them seem to have any sort of fear while playing aaron. some even came down the wicket and smash him like a spinner.
gattaca Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 +1. lets hope aaron will do a decent job. don;t over expect like he will intimidate eng batsman. infact aaron bowling at 90 mph was taken to the cleaners by even bang batsman. none of them seem to have any sort of fear while playing aaron. some even came down the wicket and smash him like a spinner. 90 mph on flat wicket is different with pitches that have something in it.
renjith Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 90 mph on flat wicket is different with pitches that have something in it. it is not the amount of runs which he leaked but the manner in which bang batsman treated him. even there was a CI article saying only speed and no intimidation. even if you bowl 95 mph, if you do not have direction, it will not intimidate the batsman. irrespective of pitch conditions as well.
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