Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[Axl100mph]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

I don't think anyone is denying that Rauf is fast, it's just than Umran is a natural athelete who was bowling 157 kph last year IPL and clocked 156 & 155 in limited international games. Umran has serious potential to clock 160k which even Shoaib acknowledged but he doesn't get the support from TM.

 

Kartik Tyagi is another genuine quick who consistently bowls in 144-150 range with fastest around 151/152 in IPL so far, you might remember him coz he played U-19 WC in 2020 along with Yashasvi where he was bowling accurate Yorkers at 138-144 kph.

 

However, unlike Pakistan who picks fastest bowlers first & then work in them, India go in reverse gear and reject the fastest ones. Last T20 WC our quickest was Pandya who clocked 145, and he is an allrounder.

Umran is a great fast twitch athlete but as I explained, he has already utilized most of the attractors of producing pace.

Rauf on the other hand bowls at that speed without adequate runup momentum.

 

For any fast bowling nerds out here, just take a look at his impulse stride for example; it is poor with very little momentum sequencing from the runup into backfoot contact, because of such short imbslanced strides with occassional deceleration, yet he bowls 150 plus, all through shoulder speed and power.

 

The fact that he has so quickly evolved into becoming one of our best fielders in the team after not even knowing what to do in the field 4 years ago, given his tape ball exclusive background shows the kind of athlete he is. 

 

And yes, I really like Tyagi but like many other recent Indian pacers, structure wise I feel he is built too lightly to sustain his speeds for long. Good talent though. Hope he proves me wrong. 

 

 

[Axl100mph]

12 minutes ago, the don said:

Hasnain cpl main i think 157 bi kera chuka hai.

Discount that CPL reading. That was quite off.

His fastest is 154 vs england last year. 

[the don]

50 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Rauf is top notch in white ball, quick accurate and has variations that confuses batters.

He can bowl ~150 kmph and without changing his action he can break to 125 kmph, also he has good bouncer and yorker.

 

To come from a scouting talent to become top notch fast bowler is something to appreciate.

 

Since 2019 donot know how all pak bowlers have increased their pace.  before that Rauf was not hitting 150s that often or 145+ for that matter.

But now he is 145-150 kmph bowler.

 

He had a tape ball background. Takes time to increase pace. Anyone from a tape ball background who clocks 87 kph in hard ball trials will in all likelihood develop into a 90 mph plus bowler with some work.

[Lone Wolf]

Ian bishop recent views on Haris & Umran 

 

[Suhaan]

36 minutes ago, the don said:

Naseem clocked 148 kph in that very tournament and Muhammad Wasim clocked 147 koh. Haris ki average speed was quicker than indian bowlers. Yeh kis kisam ka argument hai lol

About that particular match,Pandya was only behind Rauf

[singhvivek141]

33 minutes ago, the don said:

Naseem clocked 148 kph in that very tournament and Muhammad Wasim clocked 147 koh. Haris ki average speed was quicker than indian bowlers. Yeh kis kisam ka argument hai lol

On that day likha hai, Shaheen was trundling in that match. Naseem ka I don't remember but I think his fastest in that game was 144 (I may be wrong though), wasim didnt play that game.

Pandya bowled 145.

[Suhaan]

Umran is very quick on average as well,can't compare him with Hasnain,Shaheen or Naseem ,all of them can bowl 2-3 deliveries at best near 150

But Umran is insanely quick,i mean it is so foolish for our TM not to utilise his potential or handle him absolute care

Bowlers like him need proper coaches to perform, he's still learning infact

A proper coach like Lee,Bishop,Steyn who understand what it takes to bowl at that pace and what are benefits and risks associated with it

They chalk out plans accordingly for guys like him

I really hoped some educated pace bowling coach gets along with Umran,Tyagi etc

[Nikhil_cric]

35 minutes ago, Axl100mph said:

Umran is a great fast twitch athlete but as I explained, he has already utilized most of the attractors of producing pace.

Rauf on the other hand bowls at that speed without adequate runup momentum.

 

For any fast bowling nerds out here, just take a look at his impulse stride for example; it is poor with very little momentum sequencing from the runup into backfoot contact, because of such short imbslanced strides with occassional deceleration, yet he bowls 150 plus, all through shoulder speed and power.

 

The fact that he has so quickly evolved into becoming one of our best fielders in the team after not even knowing what to do in the field 4 years ago, given his tape ball exclusive background shows the kind of athlete he is. 

 

And yes, I really like Tyagi but like many other recent Indian pacers, structure wise I feel he is built too lightly to sustain his speeds for long. Good talent though. Hope he proves me wrong. 

 

 

Yeah our bowlers have very light frames unlike a Wahab for instance.  But are you saying that Kartik can't maintain 140-145 kph pace? I don't think that's accurate at all. There have been bowlers with similar body frames who have bowled that quick.   Maybe not 150 +

[singhvivek141]

32 minutes ago, Axl100mph said:

Umran is a great fast twitch athlete but as I explained, he has already utilized most of the attractors of producing pace.

Rauf on the other hand bowls at that speed without adequate runup momentum.

 

For any fast bowling nerds out here, just take a look at his impulse stride for example; it is poor with very little momentum sequencing from the runup into backfoot contact, because of such short imbslanced strides with occassional deceleration, yet he bowls 150 plus, all through shoulder speed and power.

 

The fact that he has so quickly evolved into becoming one of our best fielders in the team after not even knowing what to do in the field 4 years ago, given his tape ball exclusive background shows the kind of athlete he is. 

 

And yes, I really like Tyagi but like many other recent Indian pacers, structure wise I feel he is built too lightly to sustain his speeds for long. Good talent though. Hope he proves me wrong. 

 

 

His slightly round arm action helps him to generate the pace, he is similar to Bumrah who also just take few steps but still bowl 145-147kph due to the catapult which they generate with the last minute thwart. Even Mitchell Johnson used the generate the same force despite not running as fast considering the uniqueness of his action.

 

Varun Aaron was another one who had a very start stop start stop action but still clocked 150+ considering the amount of force he used to generate while loading his action and the shoulders.

 

 

[singhvivek141]

6 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Umran is very quick on average as well,can't compare him with Hasnain,Shaheen or Naseem ,all of them can bowl 2-3 deliveries at best near 150

But Umran is insanely quick,i mean it is so foolish for our TM not to utilise his potential or handle him absolute care

Bowlers like him need proper coaches to perform, he's still learning infact

A proper coach like Lee,Bishop,Steyn who understand what it takes to bowl at that pace and what are benefits and risks associated with it

They chalk out plans accordingly for guys like him

I really hoped some educated pace bowling coach gets along with Umran,Tyagi etc

Umran and Tyagi would have caused havoc if they had played together in any country,

 

Umran has raw pace eith excellent accuracy which Kartik has pace, bounce, swing seam, yorkers whatever you ask for. 

It's unimaginable to see how much talent we can keeping at bay just to play these Mukesh Kumar's, Jaydev Unadkut and Avesh Khan.

 

One stint of guidance under Lee, Steyn or Bond would have done wonders.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Axl100mph said:

 

And yes, I really like Tyagi but like many other recent Indian pacers, structure wise I feel he is built too lightly to sustain his speeds for long. 

 

 

Actually, the biggest feature of recent Indian quicks, from 2016 onwards, is the ability to sustain speeds throughout the day even in tests as well as for multiple years. 

 

Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Umesh and Ishant have all done it. 

[Need4Speed]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Umran and Tyagi would have caused havoc if they had played together in any country,

 

Umran has raw pace eith excellent accuracy which Kartik has pace, bounce, swing seam, yorkers whatever you ask for. 

It's unimaginable to see how much talent we can keeping at bay just to play these Mukesh Kumar's, Jaydev Unadkut and Avesh Khan.

 

One stint of guidance under Lee, Steyn or Bond would have done wonders.

we have best bowling coach in the world Paras Mhambrey...

[tapandrun]

Ind could easily field fastest bowling attack in the world rt. now. Problem is the choices made by cap, and coach

 

Umraan --145+ kmph

Sen --145+ kmph

Tiyagi --145+ kmph

Rana -- 142+ kmph

M.Yadav -140+ kmph

 

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by tapandrun

[express bowling]

6 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Ind could easily field fastest bowling attack in the world rt. now. Problem is the choices made by cap, and coach

 

Umraan --145+ kmph

Sen --145+ kmph

Tiyagi --145+ kmph

Rana -- 142+ kmph

M.Yadav -140+ kmph

 

 

 

I won't be surprised if M Yadav turns out to be 145 k+ too.

 

And we have Bumrah who can be 145 k+. 

 

And Umran can be 150 k+.

[Suhaan]

1 minute ago, express bowling said:

 

I won't be surprised if M Yadav turns out to be 145 k+ too.

 

And we have Bumrah who can be 145 k+. 

 

And Umran can be 150 k+.

Tyagi has the ability to match almost Umran

I'm so disgusted, gutted not to see him taken care of, should have been groomed as "The Next Big Thing" for us

Need a foreign modern fast bowling coach asap,Indian cricket legends are just not cut out for Modern cricket

[express bowling]

We have the biggest pool of quick bowlers now .... but not utilizing them to the fullest extent.

 

145 k+ etc. means the speeds of the quicker balls in their innings 

 

150 k+ ....

 

1. Umran

 

 

145 k+ ....

 

1. Bumrah

2. Tyagi

3. Sen

4. Mayank Yadav

5. Harshit

6. Saini

7. Nagarkoti 

(  Umesh and Aaron used to be here )

 

 

142 k+ ....

 

1. Siraj

2. Prasidh

3. Shami

4. Hardik 

5. Mohsin 

6. Simarjeet

7. Deshpande

8. Asif 

( Ishant used to be here ) 

 

 

140 k+ ....

 

1. Hangargekar ( potentially )

2. Mukesh Chaudhary ( not Koomar ) 

3. Khaleel

4. Avesh ( if fit )

5. Thampi

6. Sushant 

 

 

This is why it pains to see Mukesh C, Unadkat, Shardul, Bhuvi, Chahar, Harshal etc. play in tandem for us. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

11 minutes ago, express bowling said:

We have the biggest pool of quick bowlers now .... but not utilizing them to the fullest extent.

 

XYZ k+ means the speeds of the quicker balls in their innings 

 

150 k+ ....

 

1. Umran

 

 

145 k+ ....

 

1. Bumrah

2. Tyagi

3. Sen

4. Mayank Y 

5. Harshit

6. Saini

7. Nagarkoti 

 

 

142 k+ ....

 

1. Siraj

2. Prasidh

3. Shami

4. Hardik 

5. Mohsin 

6. Simarjeet

7. Deshpande

8. Asif 

 

 

140 k+ ....

 

1. Hangargekar ( potentially )

2. Mukesh Chaudhary ( not Koomar ) 

3. Khaleel

4. Avesh ( if fit )

5. Thampi

6. Sushant 

 

 

This why it pains to see Mukesh C, Unadkat, Shardul, Bhuvi, Chahar, Harshal etc. play in tandem for us. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tag Agarkar on Twitter brother,crucial for our plans and highlight importance of someone like Steyn,Lee,Bishop like coach for these guys

[Suhaan]

Just now, Suhaan said:

Tag Agarkar on Twitter brother,crucial for our plans and highlight importance of someone like Steyn,Lee,Bishop like coach for these guys

And we'll retweet the same

[Axl100mph]

11 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Actually, the biggest feature of recent Indian quicks, from 2016 onwards, is the ability to sustain speeds throughout the day even in tests as well as for multiple years. 

 

Bumrah, Shami, Siraj, Umesh and Ishant have all done it. 

I am talking about the younger lot. Most of them are always on the injury ward in Bangalore. 

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, Axl100mph said:

I am talking about the younger lot. Most of them are always on the injury ward in Bangalore. 

 

That has more to do with extremely poor injury management by the NCA.