Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[NareshK]

Pankaj has bowled 135 to 142 k in the 2nd innings. But ,his inability to get much zip off the deck is disappointing. He did not get much bounce too , considering his height. On the same pitch, all other pacers got zip and bounce. Even Bhuvi got more purchase from the pitch. His wicket was as much due to extra bounce as outswing.

There is a big difference between hit the deck bowlers and bowlers who float the ball. The former get more bounce, pace, carry and seam movement while the latter are mostly swing bowlers. Their bowling action is where the difference lies. The pace you see on the speedometer is the pace when the ball leaves the bowler's hand. When Pankaj bowls 135kph, it may reach at a slower pace after pitching when it reaches the batsman. When Aaron or Ishant bowls 135kph, it will reach 140kph on a hard surface because they are more hit the deck bowlers. Anderson and Broad mix it up by floating the ball and sometimes banging it in. Hence you see them getting more bounce, carry and pace. On SC pitches or slower pitches, even if you bang it in at 150kph it will reach the batsman at a much slower pace, hence many bowlers try to swing the ball rather than waste their energy trying to hit the deck and bowl at a pace. The speeds you see on the tv are misleading.

[vishalvirsingh]

Cook was having a wonderful net last match and this one. Technique all nice, that little forward press and playing straight and playing forward all working how worked nicely at nets. Feet and all moving great, technique that worked on pefect. Suddenly aaron comes on. First Ball rapid. It did not move and was not even that great, half volley that was straight just outside off. Cook all at sea, late on it, misses it, looks suddenly clumsy. Then aaron baowls fast bouncer, little press and moving forward all over the place, cant react quick enough and rock back quick enough, goes for pull, mistimes, hurried. OUT Balance whole series having a nice net, again getting forward at will. AAron fast bouncer. Balance suddenly has ideas in his head. Next ball length ball at 88 mph. Before nicely going forward to trundlers. Suddnely stays back cos of pace, pinned in crease, lbw with old ball late in day. OUT Why did the above 2 happened? Pace These fast bowlers like aaaron not finished product but need backing and playing, will get better and better. Players like BK will massively betnefit from fast bowlers, as work in pairs and will help get bats on back foot which will aid BK get them out. Sick of seeing us peppered by fast bowlers, time to give it back. We for first time have 2 express bowlers. FFS play them, unleash them

Seeing the 8 overs of Varun yesterday - first thing that i concluded was that HE OUTBOWLED All INDIAN bowlers even ISHANT by a BIG Margin.... I can tell u right away that HE is going to make Life hell for England Batsman today and I will not be surprised if Varun takes 4 more wickets to his tally and gets 6 in this Innings... he will injure them - he will hit their bodies- he will create chances of catches... Did you notice the THUD sound that was coming out when his balls were hitting DHONI's gloves.. if u guys did not Notice it- Watch n hear today. That 145k wide delivery looked to me as if it was a 150k ball. these 145+k balls Mentally harrass the batsman and he gets prepared to GET Out or just Save himself. i would play one Master SWING bowler like BHuvi and all other genuine FAST bowlers like UMESH and varun.. all these kohli mohit pankaj are neither swing bowlers nor fast bowlers-..not interenational MEterial. Bhuvi is a MAster swing bowler but only when he is bowling 130+ as good swing at 125k is not going to fetch him wickets in TESTS or even ODI.... All these other trundlers try to hit the SEAM and by chance if the ball hits the SEAM.. it swings ,, Sreesanth was a GENUINE Swing Bowler and bowled at 135 to 144k ...A Sprecial TALENT but you know i beleive he was FIXED...Some body played with his CAreer... out of the pacers that we have international material are only UMESH VARUN and BHUVI...Shammi too but Shammi is OUT of form more than in form. with due respect to their talent- mohit ishwar pankaj Dhawal kulkarni and even ISHANT should be BACK up bowlers and PLAYED when UMSH VARUN BHUVi are injured or are rested.... rahul shukla and pawan Suyal look good but they need a lot of time... if one is a fast bowler he should average 140+ if one is a SWING bowler he should SWING the BALL at his command...( bhuvi Does it..irfan used to do it, sreesanth used to do it)

[vishalvirsingh]

Aaron's fastest ball?

i read 145k twice... be ready to see varun getting 3 to 4 more wickets today and hitting english batsman as well. big question is whether Pankaj will get his first wicket or not?

[CSK Fan]

Seeing the 8 overs of Varun yesterday - first thing that i concluded was that HE OUTBOWLED All INDIAN bowlers even ISHANT by a BIG Margin.... I can tell u right away that HE is going to make Life hell for England Batsman today and I will not be surprised if Varun takes 4 more wickets to his tally and gets 6 in this Innings... he will injure them - he will hit their bodies- he will create chances of catches... Did you notice the THUD sound that was coming out when his balls were hitting DHONI's gloves.. if u guys did not Notice it- Watch n hear today. That 145k wide delivery looked to me as if it was a 150k ball. these 145+k balls Mentally harrass the batsman and he gets prepared to GET Out or just Save himself. i would play one Master SWING bowler like BHuvi and all other genuine FAST bowlers like UMESH and varun.. all these kohli mohit pankaj are neither swing bowlers nor fast bowlers-..not interenational MEterial. Bhuvi is a MAster swing bowler but only when he is bowling 130+ as good swing at 125k is not going to fetch him wickets in TESTS or even ODI.... All these other trundlers try to hit the SEAM and by chance if the ball hits the SEAM.. it swings ,, Sreesanth was a GENUINE Swing Bowler and bowled at 135 to 144k ...A Sprecial TALENT but you know i beleive he was FIXED...Some body played with his CAreer... out of the pacers that we have international material are only UMESH VARUN and BHUVI...Shammi too but Shammi is OUT of form more than in form. with due respect to their talent- mohit ishwar pankaj Dhawal kulkarni and even ISHANT should be BACK up bowlers and PLAYED when UMSH VARUN BHUVi are injured or are rested.... rahul shukla and pawan Suyal look good but they need a lot of time... if one is a fast bowler he should average 140+ if one is a SWING bowler he should SWING the BALL at his command...( bhuvi Does it..irfan used to do it, sreesanth used to do it)

I completely agree with you. These 4 bowlers look miles apart from others Yadav, Varun. Shami and Bhuvi. All of them should form the core of our bowling and given a long rope. Bowling has been the biggest challenge for a long time so it is high time we have a long term strategy for it. These bowlers clearly have the skills and basic in place. What they need is nurturing and guidance. I was glad that Yadav and Bhuvi were given grade B contracts which show selectors think of them long term So persist with these guys and don't drop them the first chance we get. Coach them, guide them and look after their health, rotating them when needed. Let them play less useless ODIs and T20s. Include them in all tours for all kinds of experience. Only way we will have a decent attack in the long run. Most of all, Yadav and Varun should be asked to bowl as fast as possible regardless of the results initially. Never mind line, length, one side of the wicket. Bowl fast and furious, bounce batsmen, york them.

[vishalvirsingh]

All 4 England bowlers were 84-85 mph on average' date=' quickest 89-94 mph. Aaron was quicker on average than them 88 mph.[/quote'] Cheers to Varun Aroon.. wish him great Success today...

[King Tendulkar]

I completely agree with you. These 4 bowlers look miles apart from others Yadav, Varun. Shami and Bhuvi. All of them should form the core of our bowling and given a long rope. Bowling has been the biggest challenge for a long time so it is high time we have a long term strategy for it. These bowlers clearly have the skills and basic in place. What they need is nurturing and guidance. I was glad that Yadav and Bhuvi were given grade B contracts which show selectors think of them long term So persist with these guys and don't drop them the first chance we get. Coach them, guide them and look after their health, rotating them when needed. Let them play less useless ODIs and T20s. Include them in all tours for all kinds of experience. Only way we will have a decent attack in the long run. Most of all, Yadav and Varun should be asked to bowl as fast as possible regardless of the results initially. Never mind line, length, one side of the wicket. Bowl fast and furious, bounce batsmen, york them.

Hallehua. Finally. Fans seeing the light. I feel emotional, feel like crying. Touching moment.

[vishalvirsingh]

He beaten Bell a few times when he was new who looked uncomfortable' date=' should have maintained that line for longer.[/quote'] I also thought that Varun would get Bell's nick very soon as he nearly got him OUT once but then suddenly he was rested. ONly bowler who can make a mtach for us is Varun. Does Dhoni know this...

[vishalvirsingh]

Hallehua. Finally. Fans seeing the light. I feel emotional, feel like crying. Touching moment.

if Varun gets 6 wickets Possibly i will CRY bcos of Happiness...

[thongale]

with due respect to their talent- mohit ishwar pankaj Dhawal kulkarni and even ISHANT should be BACK up bowlers and PLAYED when UMSH VARUN BHUVi are injured or are rested....

That means they will be playing quite regularly:--D

[express bowling]

Aaron's fastest ball?

Aaron Fastest. 145 k Average. 142 k. Compare this with the English pacers Fastest 142/141 Average 135 to 137 k. Pankaj Fastest 140 k Average. 134 k.

[rkt.india]

TBH, Aaron exceeded my expectations. I did not really expect him bowl as well as he did straightway without much match practice and that too in less favorable conditions in comparison to what English bowlers got in the morning and afternoon sessions. He kept batsmen honest and alert throughout his 2 spells of 8 overs.

[express bowling]

There is a big difference between hit the deck bowlers and bowlers who float the ball. The former get more bounce, pace, carry and seam movement while the latter are mostly swing bowlers. Their bowling action is where the difference lies. The pace you see on the speedometer is the pace when the ball leaves the bowler's hand. When Pankaj bowls 135kph, it may reach at a slower pace after pitching when it reaches the batsman. When Aaron or Ishant bowls 135kph, it will reach 140kph on a hard surface because they are more hit the deck bowlers. Anderson and Broad mix it up by floating the ball and sometimes banging it in. Hence you see them getting more bounce, carry and pace. On SC pitches or slower pitches, even if you bang it in at 150kph it will reach the batsman at a much slower pace, hence many bowlers try to swing the ball rather than waste their energy trying to hit the deck and bowl at a pace. The speeds you see on the tv are misleading.

First off, a ball ALWAYS loses pace after release and on reaching the batsmen, no matter how fast or deck hitting the bowler is. A fast bowler releasing the ball at 135 k will have the ball reach the batsmen between 115 k to 105 k roughly, depending on the type of bowler, release, pitch, atmospheric conditions etc. . I believe you are talking about pacers who lose less speed on pitching and Pankaj is not one of them. His deliveries become sort of lifeless after pitching and lose more speed perhaps. Also, he does land the ball on the seam when hitting the deck , by design, to get seam movement.... that maybe a factor too. His pitched up floaty deliveries, intended to swing ,have better seam position.

[FischerTal]

TBH' date=' Aaron exceeded my expectations. I did not really expect him bowl as well as he did straightway without much match practice and that too in less favorable conditions in comparison to what English bowlers got in the morning and afternoon sessions. He kept batsmen honest and alert throughout his 2 spells of 8 overs.[/quote'] hopefully he rips through the english with cloud cover

[express bowling]

Aaron bowls Moeen Ali with a huge quick outswinger ( inswing to lefty ). This was setup by some quick bouncers. Wonderful test bowling. Aaron and Bhuvi are forming a good pair.

[Lord]

In test matches, the biggest performance of a bowler is taking wickets. Because, that is what wins matches. But, we often gauge it by economy rate, number of no balls, a few wayward deliveries etc. Nobody expects a bowler to go on playing tests if he can't take wickets. But, if he can, especially compared to the other bowlers in the team, then he should not be dropped or discouraged because of the factors I mentioned above. That is my point. A good quality fast bowler usually has more impact in tests than a good quality medium pacer. But, they normally take some more time to mature in terms of economy etc.

I'm talking about performance in respect of wickets only. See this series,BK has been taking wickets while Shami wasnt so he was rightly dropped despite him being faster.Pankaj was retained bcoz he created more chances than Shami last match,again being slower. You can't carry non performers irrespective of whether they are fast or not. Varun was poor in NZ,got dropped then worked with Donald in IPL and has looked better bowler since.Dropping a work in progress is not always bad.

[Lord]

Wrong. No other country does this. They wont say drop the fats bowler and put in 5ft 6 inch 6 stone 76 mph bowler, only in India We have no idea how to develop pacers 3 years ass rapes and you talk about not sacrificiying winning!!!

Huh did you even read my post?If the 5 feet 6 inch and 76 mph bowler is like BK and taking wickets,then there's no reason he should be dropped for a faster,taller bowler as long as hes taking wickets.I know you hate it that BK has cemented his place by performing but it is what it is. Again,Steyn and Johnson were both dropped when they bowled poorly and they came back better.No one carries a non performer no matter how fast he is.

[FischerTal]

Huh did you even read my post?If the 5 feet 6 inch and 76 mph bowler is like BK and taking wickets,then there's no reason he should be dropped for a faster,taller bowler as long as hes taking wickets.I know you hate it that BK has cemented his place by performing but it is what it is. Again,Steyn and Johnson were both dropped when they bowled poorly and they came back better.No one carries a non performer no matter how fast he is.

Why are you arguing with him? Deewar pe sar phodne se khud ka hi nuksaan hota hain

[rkt.india]

after 14 overs in the innings, averaging 87.6 with fastest 92.4. Still quickest on average in this match.

[rkt.india]

I Varun was poor in NZ,got dropped then worked with Donald in IPL and has looked better bowler since.Dropping a work in progress is not always bad.

Aaron was not exactly poor in NZ. If he was poor than BK and Shami were also poor. BK did not have wickets to show, Shami had more wickets but higher ER than Aaron.

[Lord]

Aaron was not exactly poor in NZ. If he was poor than BK and Shami were also poor. BK did not have wickets to show' date=' Shami had more wickets but higher ER than Aaron.[/quote'] He was poorer in terms of control.Even in Asia Cup he was ineffective. Even he said he made a few adjustments after that