Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, MK55 said:

Why can’t we find a guy with the fitness of Starc lol. Was bowling 145k average in most of his spells in the 4th test match even when he had an injury scare just some days back.

He’s rarely injured anyways. Hopefully stays that way. 

 

I think you mean the 5th test. He was much slower in the 2nd innings. 

 

Starc is an enigma. He is the tallest and bounciest 145 k+ pacer among pacers with 100+ test wickets. Plus he swings the ball significantly and has a good yorker and bumper. Great fitness too. 376 test wickets from 94 tests @ 4 wickets per test.

 

But averages 27.8 playing half his tests in bouncy Australia. Even in this series, he averaged 28.6 and has taken just 3.6 wickets per test on such spicy pitches. For reference, Bumrah and Boland averaged 13.x with 6.4 to 7 wickets per test. 

 

Shows us how important a combination of accuracy, zip off the deck and consistent seam movement is these days. Starc lacked accuracy and consistent seam movement. 

 

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

2 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Shows us how important a combination of accuracy, zip off the deck and consistent seam movement is these days. Starc lacked accuracy and consistent seam movement. 

 

 

 

Bumrah and Cummins have all 3 qualities, which is why they are great bowlers.

 

Boland lacks zip off the deck on slower surfaces. Which is why he works mainly on faster surfaces.

 

Siraj is inconsistent in all 3 areas. On good days has all 3 and on bad days lacks all 3. Which is why he is cold and hot. 

 

Akashdeep, after losing pace, is lacking the consistent zip off the deck. Seam movement has probably reduced too. Which is why he averaged 54 in this series.

 

Harshit needs to improve his accuracy. 

[singhvivek141]

Our pace bowling stocks are depleting faster, and as usual BCCI is being careless about it. This BGT has shown us what's the importance of a good reserve is.
Shami was injured and invariably all the pressure was fallen onto Bumrah, who too broke down by 5th test.
Our options were Brainless Siraj and inexperienced Akashdeep, Prasidh, Harshit.

Our next test cycle is 6 months away in England, and we don't have any tests in India in that duration.
BCCI need to ensure that Akashdeep and Harshit must play in all the ODI games (6 or more) till the England Test series, plus some other pacers should also be earmarked as part of pace attack in England (minus Avesh, Mukesh, Unadkut). We also need to look at Vaibhav Arora or Arshdeep as a pure swing bowling for English conditions and they both are tall as well (Arshdeep's pace is an issue but beggars can't be choosers).

Akashdeep (if fit)

Shami (if fit)

Harshit

Mayank (if fit)
Arshdeep

Vaibhav Arora

 

should be the defacto pace attack for next 6 ODI's (3 vs England, minimum 3 in CT). Out of which Harshit must play in all 6 games alongside Akashdeep.
 

[singhvivek141]

19 minutes ago, tweaker said:

BCCI should look after Karthik Tyagi as he is young, tall ,has pace .

 

He should have been played in Duleep Trophy and A team.

If Tyagi is fit, BCCI should find a state team for him (if UPCA can't).
Mohsin too is injured it seems (last game vs Chandigarh he stopped bowling after 5.5 overs and Rinku completed his quota). So one spot is open. But UPCA will choose Vinit Panwar.

[MK55]

2 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Our pace bowling stocks are depleting faster, and as usual BCCI is being careless about it. This BGT has shown us what's the importance of a good reserve is.
Shami was injured and invariably all the pressure was fallen onto Bumrah, who too broke down by 5th test.
Our options were Brainless Siraj and inexperienced Akashdeep, Prasidh, Harshit.

Our next test cycle is 6 months away in England, and we don't have any tests in India in that duration.
BCCI need to ensure that Akashdeep and Harshit must play in all the ODI games (6 or more) till the England Test series, plus some other pacers should also be earmarked as part of pace attack in England (minus Avesh, Mukesh, Unadkut). We also need to look at Vaibhav Arora or Arshdeep as a pure swing bowling for English conditions and they both are tall as well (Arshdeep's pace is an issue but beggars can't be choosers).

Akashdeep (if fit)

Shami (if fit)

Harshit

Mayank (if fit)
Arshdeep

Vaibhav Arora

 

should be the defacto pace attack for next 6 ODI's (3 vs England, minimum 3 in CT). Out of which Harshit must play in all 6 games alongside Akashdeep.
 

Gambhir was salivating over Siraj non stop in his press conference. At this point I feel he’d rather die than leave Siraj out lol.

 

So Siraj is going to be the first pick followed by Mr Deep and Bumrah. Those 3 will play the first 3 test matches in the England series. Then one of them (most probably Bumrah first) will break and some swing bowler in the squad will get the chance in the 4th test. 
 

 

[singhvivek141]

7 minutes ago, MK55 said:

Gambhir was salivating over Siraj non stop in his press conference. At this point I feel he’d rather die than leave Siraj out lol.

 

So Siraj is going to be the first pick followed by Mr Deep and Bumrah. Those 3 will play the first 3 test matches in the England series. Then one of them (most probably Bumrah first) will break and some swing bowler in the squad will get the chance in the 4th test. 
 

 

Harshit has to play.
He is the future. If anyone think Siraj is going to be the leader of attack then they're just being delusional.
Siraj is just another Umesh yadav...good performance here and there. But in totality a decentish bowler.

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Our pace bowling stocks are depleting faster, and as usual BCCI is being careless about it. This BGT has shown us what's the importance of a good reserve is.
Shami was injured and invariably all the pressure was fallen onto Bumrah, who too broke down by 5th test.
Our options were Brainless Siraj and inexperienced Akashdeep, Prasidh, Harshit.

Our next test cycle is 6 months away in England, and we don't have any tests in India in that duration.
BCCI need to ensure that Akashdeep and Harshit must play in all the ODI games (6 or more) till the England Test series, plus some other pacers should also be earmarked as part of pace attack in England (minus Avesh, Mukesh, Unadkut). We also need to look at Vaibhav Arora or Arshdeep as a pure swing bowling for English conditions and they both are tall as well (Arshdeep's pace is an issue but beggars can't be choosers).

Akashdeep (if fit)

Shami (if fit)

Harshit

Mayank (if fit)
Arshdeep

Vaibhav Arora

 

should be the defacto pace attack for next 6 ODI's (3 vs England, minimum 3 in CT). Out of which Harshit must play in all 6 games alongside Akashdeep.
 

 

For the next 6 ODIs ....

 

Harshit .. all 6 

Mayank .. 3 if fit 

Prasidh .3 

Shami .. 3

Arshdeep .. 3 

 

I don't understand Akashdeep's positioning after his loss of pace. He is neither a fast bowler, nor a swing bowler, nor a bounce bowler. Definitely not a strike bowler. 

[singhvivek141]

5 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

For the next 6 ODIs ....

 

Harshit .. all 6 

Mayank .. 3 if fit 

Prasidh .3 

Shami .. 3

Arshdeep .. 3 

 

I don't understand Akashdeep's positioning after his loss of pace. He is neither a fast bowler, nor a swing bowler, nor a bounce bowler. Definitely not a strike bowler. 

Yeah, Akashdeep's case is curious.
After loss of pace even the natural bounce that he used to get has also taken a hit.
I want to see if he can regain his pace back, that will bring his bounce back. At this moment he is going nowhere.

[ungboysj]

10 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

For the next 6 ODIs ....

 

Harshit .. all 6 

Mayank .. 3 if fit 

Prasidh .3 

Shami .. 3

Arshdeep .. 3 

 

I don't understand Akashdeep's positioning after his loss of pace. He is neither a fast bowler, nor a swing bowler, nor a bounce bowler. Definitely not a strike bowler. 

Nice to see you accepted your mistake of hyping akashdeep he was always useless

 

I think krishna looked best Indian bowler since bumrah shami he has all the weapons just needs some experience and confidence 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, ungboysj said:

Nice to see you accepted your mistake of hyping akashdeep he was always useless

 

I think krishna looked best Indian bowler since bumrah shami he has all the weapons just needs some experience and confidence 

 

I and many others here supported Akashdeep as a support pacer / backup pacer when he was bowling 133 k to 143 k with zip off the deck and more bounce.

 

I compared him to Andy Bichel then. Not the first pick but a solid backup to cover for injuries. This type is needed.

 

This Akashdeep, after dengue, of late 2024 and early 2025, is not the same bowler. Less pace, zip and bounce. 

 

He was always a seam bowler primarily and and not really a genuine swing bowler. And this needs more effort bowling than what he is doing now.

 

Prasidh. apart from bouts of loss of confidence, has another issue of not completing his action in many cases. Needs to work on both aspects. But he always had a higher ceiling than many others due to his natural bounce at sharp pace and wicket taking knack.  

Edited January 5, 2025 by express bowling

[Suhaan]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Harshit has to play.
He is the future. If anyone think Siraj is going to be the leader of attack then they're just being delusional.
Siraj is just another Umesh yadav...good performance here and there. But in totality a decentish bowler.

Siraj was good up untill Asia Cup or mid WC 23

But then fame,pride got into his head,he stopped working hard

Messes with his runup as well,he's more concentrated to consolidate as being part of the clique rather honestly improving and setting examples for upcoming pacers like Bumrah or even Shami

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, MK55 said:

Also another good thing about Umran is that he said recently in one of his interviews that he wants to perform and bowl high pace spells in test matches and win matches for the team. I like that attitude. And attitude is the first thing u need.

People need to understand it's not the pace but movement that brings wickets. Pace of even 135-145 is fine if you are hitting right areas consistently, getting seam movement.

[express bowling]

15 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

People need to understand it's not the pace but movement that brings wickets. Pace of even 135-145 is fine if you are hitting right areas consistently, getting seam movement.

 

 

 

Combining different aspects is the key.

 

....  Hurrying ability ( pace in the air or zip off the deck or steep bounce or all of them )

.... Accuracy

.... Consistent movement 

 

All 3 combined. 

 

Seam movement is better than swing as

.. it is available more often ( much more often in most places )

.. can't be spotted from the hand as often

.. easier to control and hence maintain accuracy

.. easier to combine with bounce.

[Suhaan]

28 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

People need to understand it's not the pace but movement that brings wickets. Pace of even 135-145 is fine if you are hitting right areas consistently, getting seam movement.

And you think Umran who has played competitive cricket doesn't know the importance of seam movement?

By the way why were you upset when Mayank wasn't able to hit 150 more than once vs BDt20s?

Edited January 5, 2025 by Suhaan

[vignesh12345]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2016/dec/09/pat-cummins-australia-need-for-pure-speed

 

cricket in Australia is heaven. 

Australia is where handsome fast bowlers grow. Where fast bowlers have zero swing but complete bounce. 

Where batsmen can hit through the line.

 

Australia is a form of cricketing Valhalla.

Conditions in Asia and England are the cricketing hell. 

[CG]

I think there is sameness in the Indian pace attack we need a genuine outswing bowlers for England.Bunrah is more seam,bounce bowler,Siraj is an inswing bowler,Shami Seam bowler .We need someone who bowls outswing or left arms pacer for England may be try khalil or Arshdeep consistently Success of zak and rp singh in previous tours.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

And you think Umran who has played competitive cricket doesn't know the importance of seam movement?

By the way why were you upset when Mayank wasn't able to hit 150 more than once vs BDt20s?

High Pace is much more important in T20 cricket. Tests are different. You should have high gear but you can't operate at high pace all the time in tests. 

[Number]

 

He could be Indian Boland in Australia.

[Suhaan]

10 minutes ago, Number said:

 

He could be Indian Boland in Australia.

Boland was extracting bounce from good length via his height

[singhvivek141]

20 minutes ago, Number said:

 

He could be Indian Boland in Australia.

He was lucky, else Travis Head would have made him Vinay Kumar 2.0 and buried his career 10 feet under the ground.