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Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners


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22 minutes ago, AKane said:

Of the 4 who played well in the Gabba test vs Aus, Pant, Gill, Siraj, Thakur.......

 

Pant has been spared the input of Dravid but has to deal with his horrible injury.

 

The other 3 Gill, Siraj and Thakur are under the tutelage of Dravid. 4 boundaries from over 10 - 50. That is very Dravid like. He has completely stamped his character on this team and it came out in the final. Thakur in his bowling and esp batting looks in character with Dravid nowadays. Cautious.

Not just dravid, Gavaskar also blamed rohit for being over attacking,and then there was dhoni with that pathetic inning in the 2015 sf.

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13 minutes ago, express bowling said:

What is the point of choosing Mukesh and Avesh ?

 

Do they look like pacers who can win us the 2024 T20 WC  !!!

 

Why not build true bench strength and develop good quality young quicks ?

 

What is Agarkar doing ?

They are only being picked because they have been in and around the team and played in the Asian games. These selectors don't let anything beyond the last game that was played in any format inform their decisions. Whole body of SMAT performances was ignored.

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1 hour ago, express bowling said:

What is the point of choosing Mukesh and Avesh ?

 

Do they look like pacers who can win us the 2024 T20 WC  !!!

 

Why not build true bench strength and develop good quality young quicks ?

 

What is Agarkar doing ?

Pissed off seeing the bowling attack bro. No vision no clue on developing bench strength. Agarkar turned out to be another dud. 

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3 hours ago, express bowling said:

What is the point of choosing Mukesh and Avesh ?

 

Do they look like pacers who can win us the 2024 T20 WC  !!!

 

Why not build true bench strength and develop good quality young quicks ?

 

What is Agarkar doing ?

This is extremely frustrating for me..needed some hope after wcup loss..wanted to see some newer pacers to be groomed…doesnt matter if we wud hv lost…

but these losers are again showing poor vision…

Be happy with medicore bowlers and only compete against Bangladesh..Netherlands etc

you are preparing an average team for average performance..you are just steps for Aussies or England for yet another title…

LOSERS SELECTORS!

 

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3 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

They are only being picked because they have been in and around the team and played in the Asian games. These selectors don't let anything beyond the last game that was played in any format inform their decisions. Whole body of SMAT performances was ignored.

Mukesh Kumar and Avesh Khan has value where they can play against our domestic stars and upcoming batsmens..if those batters play them easily then we know they can play well against mediocre bowling or medicore teams..then we can groom them further..

But I cant imagine these bowlers to pack a punch against top level teams..No waat they are going to get us the cup..

why wasting time and matches and groom youngsters instead for gods sake..

Edited by Need4Speed
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12 hours ago, AKane said:

ODIs  vs Aus

==========

 

Shami/Bumrah vs Kapil Dev or even Agarkar

 

Kapil Dev 

Overall per wicket average 27.45

Vs Aus  45 wickets at    27.68

Vs WI    43 wickets at    28.88       (in case you say Aus was not very strong in times of Kapil)

 

Agarkar

Overall per wicket average 27.85

Vs Aus  36 wickets at   28.41

 

Shami

Overall per wicket average 23.68

Vs Aus  39 wickets at  32.00

 

Bumrah

Overall per wicket average 23.55

Vs Aus  30 wickets at  34.13

 

Maybe, maybe the greatest fast bowling pair of Shami/Bumrah is not as good as we think when the opposition is Australia.

 

The less respected Kapil Dev (as a fast bowler) and the poor poor Aggy or Agarkar are not too bad in comparison vs Australia.

Average of 27 then is like 37 today. 

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6 minutes ago, Need4Speed said:

Mukesh Kumar and Avesh Khan has value where they can play against our domestic stars and upcoming batsmens..if those batters play them easily then we know they can play well against mediocre bowling or medicore teams..then we can groom them further..

But I cant imagine these bowlers to pack a punch against top level teams..No waat they are going to get us the cup..

why wasting time and matches and groom youngsters instead for gods sake..

Mukesh Kumar was thrashed mercilessly in the Syed Mushtaq Trophy

5 game 2 wickets

Gave 30 runs in 2 overs, 54 runs in 4 over and 32 runs in 3 overs

Was looking innocuous and has no plan whatsoever.

 

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Avesh, Mukesh and even Arshdeep has nothing special, none can bat. 

 

 Not sure what constitute as a good T20 fast bowler, Baring Malinga who was one of a Kind do not think if anyone can come up with a name which can be a template fast bowler in T20s.

 

Bhumrha is also defensive bowler, and with reoccurring injuries Ind should be v.mindful of using him.

 

IMO -T20 Fast bowler should have variations and must be able to bat/hit few 4/6 down the order.

 

Avesh, Mukesh, Arshdeep and  Krishna neither have variations nor can they bat. Plus their economy are on higher side as well .Their selection is unjustifiable for T20s.

 

Yudhvir Singh (LSG) could have a better selection

 

Edited by tapandrun
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1 hour ago, rkt.india said:

Average of 27 then is like 37 today. 

So Bumrah/Shami overall average of 23 is what of that day? An average of 15 or 16?    No.......

 

Let us see what Bumrah and Shami do in the Saffie tour....... watch. BTW away tours of Aus and Eng and NZ are coming up too.

 

Note the fact that Kapil's overall average is similar to avg vs Aus/WI. Not a difference of 10.

 

Edited by AKane
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Though well intentioned, this thread has become like the circle jerks about phaast bowling, pace is pace yaar etc. which the padosis excel in. If any of you guys were honest about the good of Indian cricket you'd all call out Mohd Siraj for being a waste of space after his initial honeymoon period. But nahi usko har match khilana padega, the only indispensable part of this Indian team. Apart from SL clowns, this guy can't win a game against anybody and y'all know it deep down. But facade banaye rahe about some mythical ability of this fast bowling Chahal. Trundlers deserve lanat but even they will be better investments in our white ball cricket future than miya bhai....imagine the confidence the captain has in him if he holds him back for 20 overs in a 240 run chase :phehe:, batting, fielding ke saath toh door door tak naata nahi hai is bande ka. Aur attitude dekho iska, but even that aggression is fake since he becomes like a scared puppy at the first hint of pressure. 

 

May still do something of note in tests, but first needs some attitude adjustment. 

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1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Though well intentioned, this thread has become like the circle jerks about phaast bowling, pace is pace yaar etc. which the padosis excel in. If any of you guys were honest about the good of Indian cricket you'd all call out Mohd Siraj for being a waste of space after his initial honeymoon period. But nahi usko har match khilana padega, the only indispensable part of this Indian team. Apart from SL clowns, this guy can't win a game against anybody and y'all know it deep down. But facade banaye rahe about some mythical ability of this fast bowling Chahal. Trundlers deserve lanat but even they will be better investments in our white ball cricket future than miya bhai....imagine the confidence the captain has in him if he holds him back for 20 overs in a 240 run chase :phehe:, batting, fielding ke saath toh door door tak naata nahi hai is bande ka. Aur attitude dekho iska, but even that aggression is fake since he becomes like a scared puppy at the first hint of pressure. 

 

May still do something of note in tests, but first needs some attitude adjustment. 

His strength is outswing ,even 3/4 ball is not always on target but still better than bumrah's inswing, has technical issues .

 

On top of that they remain support players,would you expect him to become the captain and take all the burden and lead from the front or put him in an important catching position, let alone his batting.

 

They have done well but it's not good enough to be crowned champions.

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2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Though well intentioned, this thread has become like the circle jerks about phaast bowling, pace is pace yaar etc. which the padosis excel in. If any of you guys were honest about the good of Indian cricket you'd all call out Mohd Siraj for being a waste of space after his initial honeymoon period. But nahi usko har match khilana padega, the only indispensable part of this Indian team. Apart from SL clowns, this guy can't win a game against anybody and y'all know it deep down. But facade banaye rahe about some mythical ability of this fast bowling Chahal. Trundlers deserve lanat but even they will be better investments in our white ball cricket future than miya bhai....imagine the confidence the captain has in him if he holds him back for 20 overs in a 240 run chase :phehe:, batting, fielding ke saath toh door door tak naata nahi hai is bande ka. Aur attitude dekho iska, but even that aggression is fake since he becomes like a scared puppy at the first hint of pressure. 

 

May still do something of note in tests, but first needs some attitude adjustment. 

That is why Prasidh should have been there in the first place for a long league stage

Siraj is not a bad investment,it was bound to happen

Stupid Dravid and Rohit didn't change as they were scared of facing any other side other than 4th placed side

 

In two KO matches our spinners were farce,so including another spinner wasn't even a question

We already had one pacer short ,Siraj should have been replaced by Prasidh atleast 2 matches before SF

 

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3 hours ago, Suhaan said:

That is why Prasidh should have been there in the first place for a long league stage

Siraj is not a bad investment,it was bound to happen

Stupid Dravid and Rohit didn't change as they were scared of facing any other side other than 4th placed side

 

In two KO matches our spinners were farce,so including another spinner wasn't even a question

We already had one pacer short ,Siraj should have been replaced by Prasidh atleast 2 matches before SF

 

Siraj was fine before coach and his asst coaches worked on him. Give Prasidh a year with coach and his asst coaches......

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7 hours ago, Gollum said:

Though well intentioned, this thread has become like the circle jerks about phaast bowling, pace is pace yaar etc. which the padosis excel in. If any of you guys were honest about the good of Indian cricket you'd all call out Mohd Siraj for being a waste of space after his initial honeymoon period. But nahi usko har match khilana padega, the only indispensable part of this Indian team. Apart from SL clowns, this guy can't win a game against anybody and y'all know it deep down. But facade banaye rahe about some mythical ability of this fast bowling Chahal. Trundlers deserve lanat but even they will be better investments in our white ball cricket future than miya bhai....imagine the confidence the captain has in him if he holds him back for 20 overs in a 240 run chase :phehe:, batting, fielding ke saath toh door door tak naata nahi hai is bande ka. Aur attitude dekho iska, but even that aggression is fake since he becomes like a scared puppy at the first hint of pressure. 

 

May still do something of note in tests, but first needs some attitude adjustment. 

It's unfortunate that you think like that, but I think everyone here was talking about giving one chance to Prasidh against the match vs Netherlands...to see how in zone he is, but that didn't happen.

 

Siraj mostly lost the plot in semi's and finals, he was doing well before the knockouts..I dont think anyone predicted that tbh. Our bench was untested Prasidh & unreliable Shardul who everyone here agreed was a huge downgrade.

 

Siraj tbh was bowling well with new ball, he wasn't given the new ball in finals. Who knows he could have gotten a wicket or two as he is used to bowling with new ball..which Shami sprayed around as he struggle to control new ball.

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Siraj bowls well to left handers. Maybe Rohit should have persisted with him as new ball bowler in final as well as he may well have got a wicket.

 

I think Rohit held him back as Aussies gameplan may have been to attack Siraj as they may have seen him as the weak link especially after the Semi final in which he was expensive. Also, Shami bowled first change through all his spells in the World Cup before the final. Maybe he was not as effective in the final because he couldn't control the swing with the new ball or maybe felt the pressure of striking with the new ball and lost the rhythm which he had before.

 

Siraj is good when things are working for him but falls apart, if things are not going his way. He needs to work on his temperament and probably will learn from this as he is still young. It's a no brainer he has talent, how many young Indian fast bowlers bowled spells like the one at Lords or Sydney or in some of the ODI games.

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3 hours ago, srgadjon said:

Siraj bowls well to left handers. Maybe Rohit should have persisted with him as new ball bowler in final as well as he may well have got a wicket.

 

I think Rohit held him back as Aussies gameplan may have been to attack Siraj as they may have seen him as the weak link especially after the Semi final in which he was expensive. Also, Shami bowled first change through all his spells in the World Cup before the final. Maybe he was not as effective in the final because he couldn't control the swing with the new ball or maybe felt the pressure of striking with the new ball and lost the rhythm which he had before.

 

Siraj is good when things are working for him but falls apart, if things are not going his way. He needs to work on his temperament and probably will learn from this as he is still young. It's a no brainer he has talent, how many young Indian fast bowlers bowled spells like the one at Lords or Sydney or in some of the ODI games.

Siraj was Ind's best white-ball bowler before WC. What is noticeable is that he brings his top game when he is leader of the pack or other lead bowlers are not playing.

 

He kinds of fade away a bit when Shami and Bhumrha are playing.

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