Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[tapandrun]

Saw some highlights on ACC YT channel, Looked like nd -U19 fast bowling had no sting.

[singhvivek141]

9 hours ago, Mosher said:

None of the U19 bowlers look excting. Previous editions had promising quick bowlers Tyagi, Nagarkoti, Mavi, Hangargekar, Sushant. This lot of fast bowlers are poor in comparison. Where are the quick bowlers?

 

This was bound to happen when preference is given to likes of Mukesh Kumar over a Mayank Yadav or Kartik Tyagi.

 

[tapandrun]

14 hours ago, Mosher said:

None of the U19 bowlers look excting. Previous editions had promising quick bowlers Tyagi, Nagarkoti, Mavi, Hangargekar, Sushant. This lot of fast bowlers are poor in comparison. Where are the quick bowlers?

There was a guy Sakib Hussain (not sure exactly) had hyper-extension , discussed here as well, Was he U19 

[nsareen]

1 hour ago, tapandrun said:

There was a guy Sakib Hussain (not sure exactly) had hyper-extension , discussed here as well, Was he U19 

he is U19, however not selected in  any junior squads this year, however he maybe quick but very short , that’s been a pattern with upcoming quick bowlers, since nagarkoti , mavi only short bowlers come into limelight, the rest like mayank yadav harshit rana take time to shine and they cross 19’s till the time they are recognised 

[harpicP]

6 hours ago, nsareen said:

he is U19, however not selected in  any junior squads this year, however he maybe quick but very short , that’s been a pattern with upcoming quick bowlers, since nagarkoti , mavi only short bowlers come into limelight, the rest like mayank yadav harshit rana take time to shine and they cross 19’s till the time they are recognised 

I'd you are short then better have secondary skills like batting and more skill

[tapandrun]

If Ind U-19 are proper U-19 then its okay if they are not racing the speedometer.

 

The investment should be in right direction, Invest in Tall , relatively quick bowlers who could bat. Focus should be on development.

Ind has won 5/6 U19 WCs, but this needs to be translated in Intnl level. Ind invested in Mavi and Nagarkoti both were not so tall and now they can-not be developed into Intnl bowlers, they should have been asked to add batting skills.

 

Mavi has a let-down  he was bowing 140+kmph in age groups and in Intnl and at his prime he is bowling sub 135 kmph- not sure if he was injured or this is now his natural pace.

 

NCA, BCCI should not let that happen. The good thing Nagarkothi and Mavi did was to bring the pace into attention of Ind fans and they got to know Ind bowler are also bowling at high pace and there are quite a few. Umran also did the same in IPL and few intnl he got.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2023 by tapandrun

[tapandrun]

7 hours ago, nsareen said:

he is U19, however not selected in  any junior squads this year, however he maybe quick but very short , that’s been a pattern with upcoming quick bowlers, since nagarkoti , mavi only short bowlers come into limelight, the rest like mayank yadav harshit rana take time to shine and they cross 19’s till the time they are recognised 

Looks alright here , may not be as tall as Rana, bt certainly taller than Mavi and Nagarkoti

 

[tapandrun]

14 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

 

This was bound to happen when preference is given to likes of Mukesh Kumar over a Mayank Yadav or Kartik Tyagi.

 

Should not be fixated on high speeds in T20Is, variations are more required. Plus need to have batting/hitting skills.

We have seen Cummins, Styen, Broad and other top class bowler go for runs in T20s as they become predictable and batters are able to line them up.

 

Prblm with Ind's so-called specialist T20 bowlers is that they do not posses any T20 ability. All 3/4 who played last series are no good with bat and they do not have much variations.

[singhvivek141]

20 hours ago, tapandrun said:

Should not be fixated on high speeds in T20Is, variations are more required. Plus need to have batting/hitting skills.

We have seen Cummins, Styen, Broad and other top class bowler go for runs in T20s as they become predictable and batters are able to line them up.

 

Prblm with Ind's so-called specialist T20 bowlers is that they do not posses any T20 ability. All 3/4 who played last series are no good with bat and they do not have much variations.

A bowler who bowls at 145k, his slower one AR 115k is more likely to deceive the batters than a trundler who bowls at 130k and has a slower one at 110k.

 

T20 has always been unforgiving for bowlers and we supposedly have the conception that slow, slower slowest is the best way to go forward.

 

Best T20 fast bowler has been historically Malinga who was a 140-150 pacer for major part of his career combined with an unique action which was hard to pickup by the batters. While our response has been a conventional action bowling Bhuvi who is a 123-133 kph bowler, or a 24 slower deliveries Harshal Patel whose slower ones oscillate from 100 to 115kph...bar Bumrah no one is even close to be called as a T20 bowler in our setup (talking about the pacers).

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by singhvivek141

[tapandrun]

50 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

A bowler who bowls at 145k, his slower one AR 115k is more likely to deceive the batters than a trundler who bowls at 130k and has a slower one at 110k.

 

T20 has always been unforgiving for bowlers and we supposedly have the conception that slow, slower slowest is the best way to go forward.

 

Best T20 fast bowler has been historically Malinga who was a 140-150 pacer for major part of his career combined with an unique action which was hard to pickup by the batters. While our response has been a conventional action bowling Bhuvi who is a 123-133 kph bowler, or a 24 slower deliveries Harshal Patel whose slower ones oscillate from 100 to 115kph...bar Bumrah no one is even close to be called as a T20 bowler in our setup (talking about the pacers).

 

 

Fair point -Yes a proper 145+ kmph bowler with good yorker, bouncer and a slower-one (with disguise ) will trouble batters- Kind of Rauf-Pak. intnl.

But Ind does not have that kind of bowler, not in term of pace but the variations, v.few has a good disguised slower-ones. Most of them look like they give a 24 hour prior notice before bowling a slower one.

 

Would keep Malinga out of comparison he was special, have seem many other emulating his action  with no to bad results at that requires lot of practice and natural dip in the ball. If no mystery to the action no other team has been able to find a template t20 bowler, so variations are needed.

 

Only Pak team has some what found a formula, but Pak team and PCB has put more emphasis on T20s. And most their bowler are coming from that mind-set too and tape-ball experience.

 

Ind does not have any kind of mystery in their bowling which is making it easier for batter to line them up. And there are none in domestic to pick from. The next best option is get allrounder who can bowl with variations -Guys like Charak (LSG) can bowl at decent pace and has hitting ability should be considered. 

 

We are seeing this with Eng and Aus where system produces bowlers with cleanest action adding allrounders and big hitters in their side.

 

Also T20i has been the worse format for Ind and specially to Ind's high potential bowler, would be better if given a chance in ODI first where they have chance to recover.

 

If Ind T20i bowler are going for 2+ boundaries in an over then they must have batting/hitting capabilities.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by tapandrun

[express bowling]

Our T20I pacers are so innocuous. 

[tapandrun]

54 minutes ago, express bowling said:

Our T20I pacers are so innocuous. 

Left arm / right arm nothing bowler, Ind bowlers have no variations and can not bat not sure why these are specialist T20i bowler.

 

Their sub 140 kmph balls are setting up nicely to hit any where. In T20i that's okay if bowlers are not that quick but need variations and can not go for 2+ boundaries.

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by tapandrun

[TellTheTruth]

lol I remember ICF posters talking about not needing bumrah due to asrhdeep and sirajs superior New ball wicket taking ability. The pace bowlers in IPL (Sen, prasidh, Tyagi ect) need to take more initiative and bowl more with the new ball and at the death. from what i see they only bowl in the easier middle overs. These guys are in their mid 20s and cant expect things to be handed to them on a silver plater, they have to force selectors to pick them.until they start bowling in the dificulat overs india will have to tolerate medium pace 'swing' bowlers.

[express bowling]

30 minutes ago, tapandrun said:

Left arm / right arm nothing bowler, Ind bowlers have no variations and can not bat not sure why these are specialist T20i bowler.

 

Their sub 140 kmph balls are setting up nicely to hit any where. In T20i that's okay if bowlers are not that quick but need variations and can not go for 2+ boundaries.

 

 

 

Slower balls become more effective if a pacer can bowl quick balls before that.

 

Most of our T20I pacers dish out innocuous balls and then slower balls. 

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, TellTheTruth said:

lol I remember ICF posters talking about not needing bumrah due to asrhdeep and sirajs superior New ball wicket taking ability. The pace bowlers in IPL (Sen, prasidh, Tyagi ect) need to take more initiative and bowl more with the new ball and at the death. from what i see they only bowl in the easier middle overs. These guys are in their mid 20s and cant expect things to be handed to them on a silver plater, they have to force selectors to pick them.until they start bowling in the dificulat overs india will have to tolerate medium pace 'swing' bowlers.

 

The Indian quick bowlers are not given the new ball as it is perceived that the "swing" bowlers can bowl only with the new ball and have to be "hidden" there. 

[TellTheTruth]

4 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

The Indian quick bowlers are not given the new ball as it is perceived that the "swing" bowlers can bowl only with the new ball and have to be "hidden" there. 

I agree ultimately its a flaw in indian Cricket Culture but if these fast bowlers want to get to the next level they need to do more. I dont think Ajit agrakaker not want to pick a genuine fast bowler that consistently bowls well with the new ball and at the death like a starc.

[express bowling]

19 minutes ago, TellTheTruth said:

I agree ultimately its a flaw in indian Cricket Culture but if these fast bowlers want to get to the next level they need to do more. I dont think Ajit agrakaker not want to pick a genuine fast bowler that consistently bowls well with the new ball and at the death like a starc.

 

True.

 

Just look at our domestic cricket. Tyagi bowled well in VHT and picked loads of wickets. But new ball was given to Bhuvi and Dayal. 

 

Mayank Yadav, 150 k+ and accurate, gets the older ball for Delhi too.

 

Thankfully, Harshit Rana gets the new ball. 

[TellTheTruth]

31 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

True.

 

Just look at our domestic cricket. Tyagi bowled well in VHT and picked loads of wickets. But new ball was given to Bhuvi and Dayal. 

 

Mayank Yadav, 150 k+ and accurate, gets the older ball for Delhi too.

 

Thankfully, Harshit Rana gets the new ball. 

Lol, this is why India will probably never produce a player like starc. Before starc took 3 wickets in both semi final and finals of the world cup,  he was he was 0-89, 2-66 and 1-70 in his previous 3 bowling innings. An Indian coach would have played him only in the middle overs if not dropped him entirely for a medium pace trundler. The fact that Indians cant even tolerate a fast bowler being expensive even in a domestic game is very telling.

[tapandrun]

59 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

True.

 

Just look at our domestic cricket. Tyagi bowled well in VHT and picked loads of wickets. But new ball was given to Bhuvi and Dayal. 

 

Mayank Yadav, 150 k+ and accurate, gets the older ball for Delhi too.

 

Thankfully, Harshit Rana gets the new ball. 

 

Most Ind swing bowlers are reduced to PP bowlers be it Bhuvi, D.Chahar, Singh etc. IPL teams do nt give new ball to younger bowlers as they do not have full confidence in them plus there are bowler whose quota has to be finished when the bowl is moving.

 

Yadav was lucky to get games in Del. side they are packed with fast bowler - Sani and Ishant not going anywhere. Do not want high potential bowler like Yadav, Sen, Umran, Rana to be included into T20i first just to go for runs and then branded as useless bowlers with pace and no skills- Ind commentators are quick to reject genuine Ind pacer. They just want them to have one bad day. ODIs should have been preferred format so that these new guys have time to make-up if anything goes wrong in 1 of the spell.

 

Ind should have sent Yadav, Sen, Umran, Rana and Tiyagi to SF for ODIs and once they settle down in ODI format bring them to T20Is.

 

1 trick pony can not fit into t20Is, all Ind specialist T20I bowler do not know how to stop runs neither can they bat and hardly they are good fielders.

Batters are able to hit them 2+ boundaries in an over. The set-up is wrong here if T20 bowlers are going for runs then they should be able to bat.

Ind t20 bowlers are selected on just 1 skill which they are not good at. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by tapandrun

[singhvivek141]

5 hours ago, tapandrun said:

 

Most Ind swing bowlers are reduced to PP bowlers be it Bhuvi, D.Chahar, Singh etc. IPL teams do nt give new ball to younger bowlers as they do not have full confidence in them plus there are bowler whose quota has to be finished when the bowl is moving.

 

Yadav was lucky to get games in Del. side they are packed with fast bowler - Sani and Ishant not going anywhere. Do not want high potential bowler like Yadav, Sen, Umran, Rana to be included into T20i first just to go for runs and then branded as useless bowlers with pace and no skills- Ind commentators are quick to reject genuine Ind pacer. They just want them to have one bad day. ODIs should have been preferred format so that these new guys have time to make-up if anything goes wrong in 1 of the spell.

 

Ind should have sent Yadav, Sen, Umran, Rana and Tiyagi to SF for ODIs and once they settle down in ODI format bring them to T20Is.

 

1 trick pony can not fit into t20Is, all Ind specialist T20I bowler do not know how to stop runs neither can they bat and hardly they are good fielders.

Batters are able to hit them 2+ boundaries in an over. The set-up is wrong here if T20 bowlers are going for runs then they should be able to bat.

Ind t20 bowlers are selected on just 1 skill which they are not good at. 

Pitches need to change in India for that.

SRH, CSK, KKR, DC, RR, LSG all are spin dependent teams and play on slow and low turning pitches which "suit" their bowlers. RCB anyway plays on flat patta so 7 out of 10 teams don't help quick bowlers in any way.

 

The result, we get the same bowlers who will cease to perform well when the pitches take them "out of equation".