randomGuy Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 It would have sufficed to condemn the violence and regret the loss of life. Going to the extent of asking the government to call for an independent Palestine is extremely immature. Do they even have the slightest clue about how foreign policy works? India has always treaded a path of balance in relations between Israel and Palestine. There is no need to mediate in their affairs just as we don't expect the international community to mediate in Kashmir. Would it make you happy if Israel started meddling in the Kashmir affair and started making blanket statements like Kashmir is an independent country and India invaded it????? And yes, if they can make such blanket anti-Israel statements, then why don't they come out in the open and publish articles condemning the violence unleashed by ISIS? Or condemn the violence and forced conversions on a massive scale happening across our western border? Would that antagonize the vote-bank that they appeal to? Two nation theory is/was always India's stand afaik. India is in favor of co-existence of two nations - Israel and Palestine. I do not exactly get your point. Another main point is - every party behaves differently when in govt. to when it is in opposition. Sushma Swaraj used to say - 1 sir ke badle 10 sir (10 heads for 1 head). Modi used to criticize oil and gas price rise. You do not see them acting that way when in Govt. We can not expect AAP to always have the exact same response to the conflict in Gaza as the official response of the Indian Govt. ISIS is a declared terrorist organization. Israel is a country. Expectation from a country is different. You guys lose it totally when you compare the responses for the two.
Tiger80 Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 It is in the code of conduct of all leftists to have special soft corner for Palestine
velu Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 so now AAP is concentrating on international politics :phehehe: would be funny if Kejriwal contest against putin or morkel next time :giggle:
randomGuy Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 I totally agree with the basic assumption you talk about here. It's highhanded, no questions. But is carpet bombing an entire population in the name of killing terrorists not an example of highhandedness? According to grossly underestimated accounts of govt of pakistan, the indiscriminate bombing by paki airforce has now created 500,000 internally displaced people. 500,000 people who have left their homes and ran away simply not to die of a bomb going off. Shouldn't kejri and AAPies, who have rented themselves a permanent office on the high moral ground, commanding a presumptive view of all that exists, raise atleast a whimper against civilian casualties in pak which runs into thousands? As opposed to 250 in Israel? Look forward to hear an explanation instead of simple dismissal that the two cannot be compared. I assume you do not read news at all. see civilian and Security Personnel casualties - http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/casualties.htm
Crookbond Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 lol! and you accused me of using red herrings. Ok, serious discussion. I am not talking about individual posters. Its about AAP party's stupid/vote-bank motivated stance. Will they be happy if Israel cuts ties with India or will they be happy when tomorrow in Kashmir USA start poking its nose, due to this move? If AAP really stood for humanity, it would have outraged over other crisis as well. No ? Then its obviously just to lure votes of gullible Muslims. WTF? I was replying to S=G, reply to the earlier post. I see that leader of the pack is back after multiple bans. You can now post one liners in praise of his holiness and continue trolling. You have raised two issues are confused it yourself. It is high time you crystallize your thoughts before you hit the post button when you say "serious discussion". (1) AAP protesting the military action in Gaza/Palestine and (2) AAP making its position on the conflict public and exposing itself to unfavorable foreign policy. In case of (2), your point is well taken as it serves India's "best interests". But don't forget, next time you lose your right to call other countries on moral grounds when something similar happens to India. Examples - you can't call our US invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan or US not helping with the Kandahar Hijack. You can't have it both ways, your myopic vision is ultimately detrimental to your arguments. In case of (1), your argument is even more poor. You are once again indulging in Tu Quoque. You are taking their position and then trying to find out all other situations and expecting them to have a position on each/every one of them. Typical "Whataboutism" Soviet Union era tactic. Take the data and conjecture insane assumptions which make it seem like the person taking the position is doing it for hidden purposes. Meanwhile, BJP is indulging in anti-Israel protests in Kashmir. Vote bank politics? :winky: NC, BJP Stage Anti-Israeli Protests http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2014/07/17/NC-BJP-Stage-Anti-Israeli-Protests/article2333799.ece
Number Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 WTF? I was replying to S=G, reply to the earlier post. I see that leader of the pack is back after multiple bans. You can now post one liners in praise of his holiness and continue trolling. You have raised two issues are confused it yourself. It is high time you crystallize your thoughts before you hit the post button when you say "serious discussion". (1) AAP protesting the military action in Gaza/Palestine and (2) AAP making its position on the conflict public and exposing itself to unfavorable foreign policy. In case of (2), your point is well taken as it serves India's "best interests". But don't forget, next time you lose your right to call other countries on moral grounds when something similar happens to India. Examples - you can't call our US invasion of Iraq/Afghanistan or US not helping with the Kandahar Hijack. You can't have it both ways, your myopic vision is ultimately detrimental to your arguments. In case of (1), your argument is even more poor. You are once again indulging in Tu Quoque. You are taking their position and then trying to find out all other situations and expecting them to have a position on each/every one of them. Typical "Whataboutism" Soviet Union era tactic. Take the data and conjecture insane assumptions which make it seem like the person taking the position is doing it for hidden purposes. Meanwhile, BJP is indulging in anti-Israel protests in Kashmir. Vote bank politics? :winky: NC, BJP Stage Anti-Israeli Protests http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/2014/07/17/NC-BJP-Stage-Anti-Israeli-Protests/article2333799.ece Well, I won't complain if US doesn't help India in any conflict, crisis. US has to look after its own relations and do what is best for them. Secondly, I don't know much about symbolic logic fallacies, but in any normal discussion in the world you will be pointed out on hypocrisies and having hidden motives behind it. Thirdly, yes its totally vote bank politics from J&K BJP unit. and considering they are the ruling party in center its even more retarded than what AAP is doing.
Desi Cartman Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 All of a sudden desis have become mahatma gandhi ignoring the fact Palestine has been firing rockets non stop and started this by killing innocent people Just because they are unable to cause serious damage, all of a sudden it's Israel who is evil. What are they supposed to do, disable their anti missile and allow Palestine to kill a comparable number of Israelis ?
Crookbond Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Well, I won't complain if US doesn't help India in any conflict, crisis. US has to look after its own relations and do what is best for them. Secondly, I don't know much about symbolic logic fallacies, but in any normal discussion in the world you will be pointed out on hypocrisies and having hidden motives behind it. Thirdly, yes its totally vote bank politics from J&K BJP unit. and considering they are the ruling party in center its even more retarded than what AAP is doing. In order to point out hypocrisy, you need to have two very comparable situations. For example - I say X before elections and X' after elections. There are many examples in this bracket, we don't need kaanspiracy theories that too with such ultimate conviction. All of a sudden desis have become mahatma gandhi ignoring the fact Palestine has been firing rockets non stop and started this by killing innocent people Just because they are unable to cause serious damage, all of a sudden it's Israel who is evil. What are they supposed to do, disable their anti missile and allow Palestine to kill a comparable number of Israelis ? I doubt any decent person would support what Palestine does either. The reason for outrage towards Israel because there are more casualties in their methods. Personally, I do NOT support Palestine killing innocent people just like I do NOT support Israel killing innocent people. The focus here is on "killing people" - Israel, Palestine, Pakistan or even India doesn't matter. FYI - Israel does much more than military attacks including engineering blockades of essential supplies to the Gaza strip and carefully crafted xenophobic environment. I know of an Indian who went to work at Tel Aviv and couldn't survive 30 days. Of course, this is anecdotal but I've spoken with both Jews/Palestinians alike which confirm such an environment. Now, Palestine might have done the very same if it were in Israel's place. If it did, it would (at least I would) condemn them with equal fervor just like I despise Saudi Arabia, Iran or many other such republics which indulge in similar methods.
randomGuy Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 Palestinian siblings Maria Abdel Aal and Misk cry as the body of their relative Bashir Abdel Aal, killed in an overnight Israeli missile strike in Rafah, southern Gaza Strip, is carried away from the family house, during his funeral. (AP photo)
randomGuy Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/gazaunderattack/israel-widens-ground-assault-in-gaza-as-death-toll-rises-to-299/article1-1242145.aspx#sthash.j8J6iAnZ.dpuf Israeli air strikes and shelling killed more than 25 people across Gaza on Saturday, among them children, raising the toll in 12 days of violence to 337, medics said.
Desi Cartman Posted July 19, 2014 Posted July 19, 2014 In order to point out hypocrisy, you need to have two very comparable situations. For example - I say X before elections and X' after elections. There are many examples in this bracket, we don't need kaanspiracy theories that too with such ultimate conviction. I doubt any decent person would support what Palestine does either. The reason for outrage towards Israel because there are more casualties in their methods. Personally, I do NOT support Palestine killing innocent people just like I do NOT support Israel killing innocent people. The focus here is on "killing people" - Israel, Palestine, Pakistan or even India doesn't matter. FYI - Israel does much more than military attacks including engineering blockades of essential supplies to the Gaza strip and carefully crafted xenophobic environment. I know of an Indian who went to work at Tel Aviv and couldn't survive 30 days. Of course, this is anecdotal but I've spoken with both Jews/Palestinians alike which confirm such an environment. Now, Palestine might have done the very same if it were in Israel's place. If it did, it would (at least I would) condemn them with equal fervor just like I despise Saudi Arabia, Iran or many other such republics which indulge in similar methods. Israelis cant stop till Hamas stops, what can they do ? More casualties in Palestine is not a reason for Israel to stop, its war and one party will win, its for the loser to realize and surrender or agree to ceasefire. Also when was the last time Palestine supporters posted pictures of innocent kids left without parents or parents left without kids. I am waiting to see outrage about the 3 Israelis who were killed. As for blockages, where do you think these millions of rockets coming from ? They smuggle them and Israelis try to stop it every possible way. Im so over this unjust war phenomena as only one team is supposed to be playing by the rules. Either both parties follow rules or its just war. Having said all that, I do feel bad for every child who dies or anybody who loses any family member but when Hamas had multiple chances to stop, they didnt so I dont really see how Israel can be blamed.
Crookbond Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Israelis cant stop till Hamas stops, what can they do ? More casualties in Palestine is not a reason for Israel to stop, its war and one party will win, its for the loser to realize and surrender or agree to ceasefire. Also when was the last time Palestine supporters posted pictures of innocent kids left without parents or parents left without kids. I am waiting to see outrage about the 3 Israelis who were killed. As for blockages, where do you think these millions of rockets coming from ? They smuggle them and Israelis try to stop it every possible way. Im so over this unjust war phenomena as only one team is supposed to be playing by the rules. Either both parties follow rules or its just war. Having said all that, I do feel bad for every child who dies or anybody who loses any family member but when Hamas had multiple chances to stop, they didnt so I dont really see how Israel can be blamed. I'm not saying that Israel should stop war but just randomly killing people in the Gaza isn't doing themselves any favors. The Israel attacks are completely disproportionate in response and hence, there is an outrage towards Israel more than there is to Palestine (not that there's no outrage over Palestine actions). I am talking about blockages of essential supplies - food, milk, electricity etc. These "outages" are in areas where Palestine population lives and not Israel citizens. Meanwhile, Israel is building housing colonies in the Gaza which is a clear cut violation of norms - in case you don't know. Israel's policy is not an eye for an eye but a heart, brain, kidney, liver and eye for an eye.
seedhi Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I'm not saying that Israel should stop war but just randomly killing people in the Gaza isn't doing themselves any favors. The Israel attacks are completely disproportionate in response and hence, there is an outrage towards Israel more than there is to Palestine (not that there's no outrage over Palestine actions). I am talking about blockages of essential supplies - food, milk, electricity etc. These "outages" are in areas where Palestine population lives and not Israel citizens. Meanwhile, Israel is building housing colonies in the Gaza which is a clear cut violation of norms - in case you don't know. Israel's policy is not an eye for an eye but a heart, brain, kidney, liver and eye for an eye.Actually no. Israel has dismantled all of its settlements in Gaza unilaterally in 2005 itself. I have not heard of any settlements being built in Gaza after that.
Crookbond Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Actually no. Israel has dismantled all of its settlements in Gaza unilaterally in 2005 itself. I have not heard of any settlements being built in Gaza after that. I was talking historically. In any case, there are now new plans to build Jewish settlements in the West Bank. Israel Expands Settlements to Rebuke Palestinians http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/06/world/middleeast/new-israeli-settlement-plans-draw-swift-condemnation.html
seedhi Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I was talking historically. In any case, there are now new plans to build Jewish settlements in the West Bank. Israel Expands Settlements to Rebuke Palestinians http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/06/world/middleeast/new-israeli-settlement-plans-draw-swift-condemnation.htmlYou wrote that Israel is building settlements in Gaza, that is not a historical observation. On the settlements in West Bank, Israel has clearly learned that unilateral concessions (like exiting Gaza in 2005) are not going to help. So, like any dominant power, it is helping itself to territories in West Bank so that it can have a bigger chip to bargain with when the two-state solution materializes.
Crookbond Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 You wrote that Israel is building settlements in Gaza, that is not a historical observation. On the settlements in West Bank, Israel has clearly learned that unilateral concessions (like exiting Gaza in 2005) are not going to help. So, like any dominant power, it is helping itself to territories in West Bank so that it can have a bigger chip to bargain with when the two-state solution materializes. I gave a link to why I mentioned the present. I have given a link to why I was factually correct. Israel indeed is building settlements in the West Bank. The very fact that you are justifying it proves my point.
seedhi Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 I gave a link to why I mentioned the present. I have given a link to why I was factually correct.You wrote in post#54, Meanwhile' date=' [b']Israel is building housing colonies in the Gaza which is a clear cut violation of norms - in case you don't know. which is not factually correct. Israel indeed is building settlements in the West Bank. The very fact that you are justifying it proves my point.Yes, in West Bank, and not Gaza as you claimed in post#54. Unless you believe - and this would be weird - that Gaza and West Bank are the same.
jalebi_bhai Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 so now AAP is concentrating on international politics :phehehe: would be funny if Kejriwal contest against putin or morkel next time :giggle: Imagine those jokers doing a dharna outside the reichstag......all wearing mufflers.....
gattaca Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Imagine those jokers doing a dharna outside the reichstag......all wearing mufflers..... No dharnas they will be packed to Siberia
Crookbond Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 You wrote in post#54, which is not factually correct. Yes, in West Bank, and not Gaza as you claimed in post#54. Unless you believe - and this would be weird - that Gaza and West Bank are the same. I see, I stand corrected. It should have read as "West Bank".
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