Calling Sachin Tendulkar selfish is a bit unfair: Rahul Dravid

[Crookbond]

Obsession with numbers is a global phenomenon. The concept of hat-tricks and fivers and 100s and 200s etc have all been the brainchild of non-Indians. It is normal that quantitative indicators always gives you something to work with; the Australians were so obsessed with Bradman's total number of runs that they had a Post Box No. after it.

Common, it is NOT - it is a very Indian thing. I gave you two examples outside cricket - number of educational degrees defines your educational knowledge, number of MPs in a camera defines the "goodness" of a camera, number of GBs in RAM decides the "greatness" of your RAM. For a moment, think outside cricket - there's a difference between statistical knowledge and obsession. There is a very unhealthy obsession in India with regards to statistics and in that process we overlook team goals for personal milestones. NOTE - I am not saying ALL INDIANS are so. I am just making an observation about a trend. There's ton of material about it on the Internet about team work versus culture - Asians in general suck at team work.

This theory of team vs personal milestones is always a half-baked argument. There are other players who have protected their stats by playing slowly throughout (irrespective of team situation), by not farming the strike while playing with tail-enders to improve averages and even retiring suddenly so that they don't have a 'worst' wala record. It's fashionable to question Sachin's motives while conveniently ignoring the approaches and attitudes of the others.

The arguments could be half-baked or not. My point was your reply was tangential and didn't address the question which was raised. Once again rather than reply about Tendulkar you are pointing fingers towards "other players" with clever insinuations. Much that I disagree with people who just find no reason to put a blot on Tendulkar, I find this "your favorite player did X ..." a really poor rebuttal.

[Crookbond]

That ways I can point you to a few instances where he either got out trying to play a 100 or scored his 100 in a hurry. It ain't a classic case. That's what even Dravid has said, if you start nitpicking, you can always find faults. But the perceived image is as if he has ALWAYS slowed down.

Was Tendulkar selfish ALWAYS? NO Did Tendulkar sometimes make a error in judgment while having conflicting goals between the team and personal achievements? YES Anyone can make an error of judgment, Tendulkar did so some very few times. It would be stupid to call him selfish but at the same time if people try to sell me that Tendulkar NEVER EVER put his personal milestone over teams goals I would respectfully disagree. We need to learn to accept nuanced points. It is not like Black or White. The problem is that Tendulkar has been put up on such a pedestal that he either becomes a bastion of hate to rile up his facts OR he becomes a demigod whom you can't criticize.

[kosingh]

Star seems to have pulled that Sachin ad for the WC- "I had only one dream", and replaced it with the equally bad " we won't give it back" ad. Maybe Sachin's feelings are hurt again

[Cricketics]

One can blame Tendulkar for rushing his book or whatever, but one shouldn't really question is integrity ever. I believe everyone wants to achieve personal mileston, and hence every player celebrates his century or any milestone. Even Sehwag did, who is very selfless man. Let's not get too judgmental. He had this crazy passion to play cricket and went on to play for 20+ years. Not many will ever do that and not many will have such passion to continue for so long after seeing so many things in his life. I think he is a fantastic role model as a Nationalistic Leader.

[kosingh]

One can blame Tendulkar for rushing his book or whatever, but one shouldn't really question is integrity ever. I believe everyone wants to achieve personal mileston, and hence every player celebrates his century or any milestone. Even Sehwag did, who is very selfless man. Let's not get too judgmental. He had this crazy passion to play cricket and went on to play for 20+ years. Not many will ever do that and not many will have such passion to continue for so long after seeing so many things in his life. I think he is a fantastic role model as a Nationalistic Leader.

I don't think anyone would question his integrity. Or that he was a great batsman. And a great ambassador for the game and for India. Like everyone, he had weaknesses in his personality, but that's doesn't take away the fact that he was one of the greatest batsman if all time.

[Precambrian]

his hundredth 100 is a classic case slowed the game so much in the 90s that we lost to Bangladesh. his hundredth 100 came in a losing cause against Bangladesh!!!!

I don't agree, but let's say for benefit of doubt we accept. 1 out of what? A gazillion ODIs? Nobody remembers that cup or series, I vaguely recollect it was an Asia cup. Examine any player with a reasonable career, he'd have such an instance. The great Sunil Gavaskar ****ed us up in the most grandest of stages - in a World Cup match, crawling to 26 off 180 deliveries. Dravid has played so many "Dravidian" innings in the late 90s and till he became reasonably good in ODIs. Any player would've had such a match.

[goose]

Imagine if Tendulkar got 300 or 400 or even 500 in a test....his reputation would be in tatters.

[riya]

For me the biggest selfish Sachin innings was Sydney 2008 where he exposed our tail in the pursuit of getting a not out,and came up with an unconvincing explanation too..

[HippoSucks]

What do you guys think about Gavaskar? Was he too selfish as well? Every cricketer cares about their own statistics and if they are almost sure they can't win, then what is the harm in trying to maintain your batting average?

[PBN]

One can blame Tendulkar for rushing his book or whatever, but one shouldn't really question is integrity ever. I believe everyone wants to achieve personal mileston, and hence every player celebrates his century or any milestone. Even Sehwag did, who is very selfless man. Let's not get too judgmental. He had this crazy passion to play cricket and went on to play for 20+ years. Not many will ever do that and not many will have such passion to continue for so long after seeing so many things in his life. I think he is a fantastic role model as a Nationalistic Leader.

B->

[Precambrian]

I only asked to measure the following ratio. Batsman's strike rates while moving from 90 to 100/ Career Strike rate Let personal milestones have their importance. But if a batsman is slowing down unusually during the nervous 90s, compared to other batsmen, then it is clear that he is playing more for himself than the team.

How different it is from a team perspective how many deliveries a batsman takes from 90-100, than from 0-10? Or from 10-20? From a team's perspective only 1 thing matter, how many runs were scored in the match from the allocated overs. Tendulkar averages as well as enjoys a much higher strike rate than Dravid, which irrefutably evidences that from a team perspective, the former was a much valuable player than the latter. It isn't rocket science dude.

[Gambit]

For me the biggest selfish Sachin innings was Sydney 2008 where he exposed our tail in the pursuit of getting a not out' date='and came up with an unconvincing explanation too..[/quote'] Where he and the tail went from 345/7 to 532 all out?

[vamos_rafa]

For me the biggest selfish Sachin innings was Sydney 2008 where he exposed our tail in the pursuit of getting a not out' date='and came up with an unconvincing explanation too..[/quote'] When Steve Waugh or Laxman did it, it's called the art of playing with the tail. When Sachin does it, it's called selfishness. Is that the rule here?

[vamos_rafa]

Was Tendulkar selfish ALWAYS? NO Did Tendulkar sometimes make a error in judgment while having conflicting goals between the team and personal achievements? YES Anyone can make an error of judgment, Tendulkar did so some very few times. It would be stupid to call him selfish but at the same time if people try to sell me that Tendulkar NEVER EVER put his personal milestone over teams goals I would respectfully disagree. We need to learn to accept nuanced points. It is not like Black or White. The problem is that Tendulkar has been put up on such a pedestal that he either becomes a bastion of hate to rile up his facts OR he becomes a demigod whom you can't criticize.

+ 1. For us he's more like Captain America isn't it? Flawless hero who can never do any wrong. He had his share of mistakes/errors and also has pursued his aspirations, no denying to that. As I said, his career is so huge that if you nitpick, you can find all sorts of things but broadly what you are saying makes sense.

[CasualVisitor]

Was Tendulkar selfish ALWAYS? NO Did Tendulkar sometimes make a error in judgment while having conflicting goals between the team and personal achievements? YES Anyone can make an error of judgment, Tendulkar did so some very few times. It would be stupid to call him selfish but at the same time if people try to sell me that Tendulkar NEVER EVER put his personal milestone over teams goals I would respectfully disagree. We need to learn to accept nuanced points. It is not like Black or White. The problem is that Tendulkar has been put up on such a pedestal that he either becomes a bastion of hate to rile up his facts OR he becomes a demigod whom you can't criticize.

This.