rkt.india Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 From what I remember in earlier series he did quite well In last few not much but did a lot with bat Firstly, you cannot compare 2 bowlers like that. Vettori has played whole his life on such pitches in NZ, so, he knew how to bowl on those pitches. Even Kumble was a failure in Aus early on. Vettori's first tour was in 1997 where he took 6 wickets at 51, then in 2001 13 at 33, in 2004 10 at 34, in 2005 1 at 111, 2008 5 at 40, 2011 2 at 44, so total 37 at 40. Other important thing is spinners effectiveness only depends how well your fast bowlers bowl in these conditions. Spinner will never be your main weapon. If you fast bowlers bowl poorly, you cannot expect spinner to bundle of wickets. On last tour, our fast bowlers' average were high, Zak 32 but high SR, Yadav averaged 39, decent SR but conceding too many runs, Ishant 90, he was useless, so, Ashwin had to struggle with pacers not taking enough wickets.
Old guy Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 I am not saying ashwin is useless but let's get few things straight Ashwin is not better bowler than vettori just because he had better strike rate and bowling all life there does not change the fact that pitches did not helped at all I will never make same argument for swann because pitches had something but new Zealand is completely different specially at time he played so comparing then on average is totally wrong Now ashwin played tests after it and still did not have any stand out performance ...I like ashwin I even said plenty of times that he can be decent captain but until he does well away from home I just cannot assume he will perform because there is not even one note worthy performance
rkt.india Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 I am not saying ashwin is useless but let's get few things straight Ashwin is not better bowler than vettori just because he had better strike rate and bowling all life there does not change the fact that pitches did not helped at all I will never make same argument for swann because pitches had something but new Zealand is completely different specially at time he played so comparing then on average is totally wrong Now ashwin played tests after it and still did not have any stand out performance ...I like ashwin I even said plenty of times that he can be decent captain but until he does well away from home I just cannot assume he will perform because there is not even one note worthy performance Which overseas spinner has really done well at these places? These places are for pacers, not spinners. I wouldn't like to depend on a spinner to win matches in Aua or NZ.
BeautifulGame Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 If Dravid had taken that catch of hussey from Ashwin the entire series last time could have changed completely He bowled well in the first test only after that his bowling collapsed
Lord Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 If Dravid had taken that catch of hussey from Ashwin the entire series last time could have changed completely He bowled well in the first test only after that his bowling collapsed Bad thing is our slip catching has only gotten worse.No captain or bowler can do much if you keep dropping slip catches regularly
vishalvirsingh Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 NO ashwin cannot be selected as purely a batsman or purely as a bowler in Australia as his Spin wont do its magic there.
Old guy Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Which overseas spinner has really done well at these places? These places are for pacers' date=' not spinners. I wouldn't like to depend on a spinner to win matches in Aua or NZ.[/quote'] Swann
Old guy Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 He was poor in Aus and didnt play in NZ Was poor in last series and retired because of it Did really well in tour before that after bad first match
Old guy Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Also you are just proving my point do not compare average of vettori and ashwin They bowled on different tracks
BeautifulGame Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Was poor in last series and retired because of it Did really well in tour before that after bad first match Was averaging 40 in the Ashes they won I think Economical yes but not much of a match winner really . Also the key the performances spinners depend solely in seamers in places like Aus Nzl or SA. That's why even someone like Murali struggled badly in Aus
Old guy Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Was averaging 40 in the Ashes they won I think Economical yes but not much of a match winner really . Also the key the performances spinners depend solely in seamers in places like Aus Nzl or SA. That's why even someone like Murali struggled badly in Aus What was average of ashwin ? And he played key role just ask any one who saw the series while ashwin did not even when seamers stuck in first 10 overs These are just excuses sorry he has not shown even once capability away from home and seamers have performed in many of those matches
Old guy Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Also hearth went to Australia and played so well in same year as ashwin on same tracks And fast bowlers did nothing he was their main bowler and literally one of the bets bowlers in match
rkt.india Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Was poor in last series and retired because of it Did really well in tour before that after bad first match On that tour when Swann did well, their whole team had done well, especially, pacers. Once your pacers dominate, it is easier for a good spinner to do well which Swann was. Our spinners are nowhere close to Swann in these conditions.
BeautifulGame Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 What was average of ashwin ? And he played key role just ask any one who saw the series while ashwin did not even when seamers stuck in first 10 overs These are just excuses sorry he has not shown even once capability away from home and seamers have performed in many of those matches Ahswin was poor doesn't make Swann's ave 40 great . Swann's role all through the series was of a containing bowler which he did very well.Even Flower mentioned that But he was never a match winner in that series as mentioned above . Yes Ashwin has been pretty poor so far in his career overseas (Joberg the worst) .I was only defending him regarding the performance in Aus tour But we have to figure out a spinner and stick with him overseas If not Ashwin then go with Karn. Even Kumble needed years before he started performing overside
Lord Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Ahswin was poor doesn't make Swann's ave 40 great . Swann's role all through the series was of a containing bowler which he did very well.Even Flower mentioned that But he was never a match winner in that series as mentioned above . Yes Ashwin has been pretty poor so far in his career overseas (Joberg the worst) .I was only defending him regarding the performance in Aus tour But we have to figure out a spinner and stick with him overseas If not Ashwin then go with Karn. Even Kumble needed years before he started performing overside agree.I'd stick with Ashwin as atleast he can contribute in batting until he develops his bowling
Crookbond Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Was averaging 40 in the Ashes they won I think Economical yes but not much of a match winner really . Also the key the performances spinners depend solely in seamers in places like Aus Nzl or SA. That's why even someone like Murali struggled badly in Aus Exactly, and that's the reason you don't look at averages. Swann won the match in Adelaide with a very good bowling performance and was good throughout the series. The definition of "doing well" for spinners in Australia starts with being economical.
Old guy Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Ahswin was poor doesn't make Swann's ave 40 great . Swann's role all through the series was of a containing bowler which he did very well.Even Flower mentioned that But he was never a match winner in that series as mentioned above . Yes Ashwin has been pretty poor so far in his career overseas (Joberg the worst) .I was only defending him regarding the performance in Aus tour But we have to figure out a spinner and stick with him overseas If not Ashwin then go with Karn. Even Kumble needed years before he started performing overside It's about moments ..swan a after first game had incredible series for off spinner and yes 40 is bad but what ever ashwin had was much much worse And what about hearth ? And I am not even saying select anyone it had to be ashwin and he is. Much better than Sharma spinner we selected but I am just stating the facts that he has been poor and everything else is excuse ..sorry if it looks and but that is because he has been bad not only in tests away from home but odis but that is another topic and hearth has shown again and again that there is no reason ashwin should not win matches that is just us making excuses
Old guy Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 Exactly' date=' and that's the reason you don't look at averages. Swann won the match in Adelaide with a very good bowling performance and was good throughout the series. The definition of "doing well" for spinners in Australia starts with being economical.[/quote'] :) Anyone who saw that series know that but ashwin did now had those moments even when we did well with ball up front
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