This match proves that Dhoni is the best captain

[bharat297]

Kohli will not be able to take us back to number 1 either. Not with a team that includes Dhawan, Rohit, Rahane, Aaron, Shami, Karn. It's almost impossible to have 11 serious test caliber players. It's natural that there will be 1-2 borderline ability test players. We had 6 borderline test players! Unless there's some serious unearthed talent waiting around, we're not going to be a very successful test team. Not even at home, for much longer.

Well Dhawan, Rohit, Rahane, Aaron and Shami are all very talented cricketers in their own right. All of them have the potential to be successful cricketers. It's purely a question of work-ethic and commitment. Kohli can potentially inspire the team with strong work ethic (from what I've read, he is a very hard worker) and he seems to have learnt to channel his aggression in to focus on the field. That's a very good characteristic of a leader. I would much rather have Kohli, with new ideas, rather than a tried and tested Dhoni who just resorts to standard defensive lethargic tactics at the first sign of counter attack. Food for thought ... Michael Clarke, Shane Watson, Steve Smith, Peter Siddle, Ryan Harris, Mitchell Johnson and Brad Haddin were all part of the Aussie side in 2010/11 that lost the Ashes series 3-1 on home soil, under Ricky Ponting's captaincy (which, much like Dhoni now, was on it's last legs) and slumped as low as 5th in the world Test rankings. Many of those players were thought of as not test cricket material, and a couple got dropped from the side. 3 years later, all of those players played an important role in Australia's 5-0 whitewash of England, under Michael Clarke's captaincy, and are now part of a side that is on the verge of returning to No.1 in the world.

[kubrickian]

Well Dhawan, Rohit, Rahane, Aaron and Shami are all very talented cricketers in their own right. All of them have the potential to be successful cricketers. It's purely a question of work-ethic and commitment. Kohli can potentially inspire the team with strong work ethic (from what I've read, he is a very hard worker) and he seems to have learnt to channel his aggression in to focus on the field. That's a very good characteristic of a leader. I would much rather have Kohli, with new ideas, rather than a tried and tested Dhoni who just resorts to standard defensive lethargic tactics at the first sign of counter attack. Food for thought ... Michael Clarke, Shane Watson, Steve Smith, Peter Siddle, Ryan Harris, Mitchell Johnson and Brad Haddin were all part of the Aussie side in 2010/11 that lost the Ashes series 3-1 on home soil, under Ricky Ponting's captaincy (which, much like Dhoni now, was on it's last legs) and slumped as low as 5th in the world Test rankings. Many of those players were thought of as not test cricket material, and a couple got dropped from the side. 3 years later, all of those players played an important role in Australia's 5-0 whitewash of England, under Michael Clarke's captaincy, and are now part of a side that is on the verge of returning to No.1 in the world.

That's still a win only in their home conditions. They got whacked 3-0 in England, 3-0 in UAE against Pak. Before that they were whitewashed 4-0 in India. They are not a consistently good test side by any means.

[bharat297]

That's still a win only in their home conditions. They got whacked 3-0 in England' date=' 3-0 in UAE against Pak. Before that they were whitewashed 4-0 in India. They are not a consistently good test side by any means.[/quote'] They defeated the world number 1 side (South Africa) on their own home soil. That's something that not many other teams can claim they have done. They struggled against spin in India and UAE but even the great Aussie sides of the 90s and 00s had the same problem. I don't read too much into the England victory in 2013. They sacked their existing coach, brought in a new coach, and chopped and changed the side until they found a winning combination. I don't think there is any doubt that Australia are a much much better side now than they were in 2010/11, with almost half of the side being the same. That was my point about the impact a captain can have.

[BeautifulGame]

They defeated the world number 1 side (South Africa) on their own home soil. That's something that not many other teams can claim they have done. They struggled against spin in India and UAE but even the great Aussie sides of the 90s and 00s had the same problem. I don't read too much into the England victory in 2013. They sacked their existing coach, brought in a new coach, and chopped and changed the side until they found a winning combination. I don't think there is any doubt that Australia are a much much better side now than they were in 2010/11, with almost half of the side being the same. That was my point about the impact a captain can have.

They also lost to the same SA side at home.SA was similar conditions as well. They couldn't win a single test in England .Even with the inexperienced team we managed a win. Heck even Srini Lanka and NZL have managed draws in Pak but Aus were thrashed hopelessly.Changes no.3 every match Even Dhoni or cook isn't stupid enough play someone like Maxwell as no.3 test cricket.Making a mockery of it . How is this an achievement ?

[bharat297]

They also lost to the same SA side at home.SA was similar conditions as well. They couldn't win a single test in England .Even with the inexperienced team we managed a win. Heck even Srini Lanka and NZL have managed draws in Pak but Aus were thrashed hopelessly.Changes no.3 every match Even Dhoni or cook isn't stupid enough play someone like Maxwell as no.3 test cricket.Making a mockery of it . How is this an achievement ?

Errr ... They lost to South Africa 1-0 in a 3-Test series two years before earlier. My entire point was about the team improving. There is a reason they are No.2 in the Test rankings. There's no doubt they struggle against spin in dusty conditions but regardless, they are still a very good side. I'm sure they will win the Ashes in 2015. Even in a 3-0 loss in 2013, they were quite competitive (much more than India were in 2014). They were very very very close to winning the 1st test match, and the 3rd Test match England were saved by the rain. Playing Maxwell at No.3 was a strange move but a bold move. He is a good player of spin and Australia needed to try something. But seriously, if you honestly believe that Australia and India are equal at Test level OR that Dhoni and Clarke are equal as captains, then I look forward to seeing when India become No.1 in the world again. I can almost bank on the fact that Australia will get there soon.

[BeautifulGame]

Errr ... They lost to South Africa 1-0 in a 3-Test series two years before earlier. My entire point was about the team improving. There is a reason they are No.2 in the Test rankings. There's no doubt they struggle against spin in dusty conditions but regardless, they are still a very good side. I'm sure they will win the Ashes in 2015. Even in a 3-0 loss in 2013, they were quite competitive (much more than India were in 2014). They were very very very close to winning the 1st test match, and the 3rd Test match England were saved by the rain. Playing Maxwell at No.3 was a strange move but a bold move. He is a good player of spin and Australia needed to try something. But seriously, if you honestly believe that Australia and India are equal at Test level OR that Dhoni and Clarke are equal as captains, then I look forward to seeing when India become No.1 in the world again. I can almost bank on the fact that Australia will get there soon.

Dhoni is a poor captain Clarke is an average captain.Still Dhoni kept India as no.1 much longer than Clarke could manage with Aussies Aussies are currently better than us becoz they have better bowlers in Johnson and Harris .Nothing to do with Clarke the captain We will improve as well once the the likes of Bhuvi Umesh and Aaron gain experience . Also we will soon overtake Aussies in the rankings becoz all our tough overseas tours are over.Considering our schedule over next 2-3 years we will be very close to no.1 whether Dhoni or Kohli is captain

[kubrickian]

Errr ... They lost to South Africa 1-0 in a 3-Test series two years before earlier. My entire point was about the team improving. There is a reason they are No.2 in the Test rankings. There's no doubt they struggle against spin in dusty conditions but regardless, they are still a very good side. I'm sure they will win the Ashes in 2015. Even in a 3-0 loss in 2013, they were quite competitive (much more than India were in 2014). They were very very very close to winning the 1st test match, and the 3rd Test match England were saved by the rain. Playing Maxwell at No.3 was a strange move but a bold move. He is a good player of spin and Australia needed to try something. But seriously, if you honestly believe that Australia and India are equal at Test level OR that Dhoni and Clarke are equal as captains, then I look forward to seeing when India become No.1 in the world again. I can almost bank on the fact that Australia will get there soon.

That's funny. So they play like minnows in subcontinent and England but they are still a good side ? If India dont do well in seamer friendly conditions, they are a bad side ? Hypocrisy at its worst. Fact of the matter is Australia is a very inconsistent side at test level who are no better than India in unfamiliar conditions.

[Marut]

That's funny. So they play like minnows in subcontinent and England but they are still a good side ? If India dont do well in seamer friendly conditions, they are a bad side ? Hypocrisy at its worst. Fact of the matter is Australia is a very inconsistent side at test level who are no better than India in unfamiliar conditions.

Only South Africa has the team that can play well under all conditions. With no Kallis now, I am not sure whether this is still true. No other team even comes close. Australia is a home bully, and they also know how to flourish under similar conditions in SA.

[express bowling]

People need to understand that Dhoni is a great captain not just for India but also CSK he is one of the best captains ever, he's won us a World Cup a World T20 got India to number 1 in Test Cricket and won multiple IPLs and champions leagues titles lest we forget. Kohli is a talented batsman who is going to break a lot of records but he showed a great deal of immaturity today. 300-6 16 overs to go when we have a weak tail and he tries to hit a 6 that is absoltely ridiculous behavior. I find it disgusting that some people here don't rate Dhoni as captain one of the worlds best ever captains yet are all praise for Kohli. Kohli was amazing in scoring 2 100s but he has undone all of that with one idiotic shot to make matters worse he apparently told his players to keep going for it including Rohit! That worked really well didn't it!! I don't believe in pure defence but you have to play the situation, at 205-2 at Tea we were in a winning position but once we lost a few poles a good skipper woudk have realised its time to shut up shop and play for a draw. Dhoni would have done this Virat didn't, that's why Dhoni is a great captain and Virat a brainless one.

A few points --- 1) Dhoni's India captaincy can be divided into 2 parts (a) Till 2011 when he was doing really well. ( b ) 2012 to 2014 -- He has been really very bad. Everything comes with an expiry date and Dhoni the captain is way past his selling date. This fact should be recognized. He now looks tired, overworked, bereft of ideas, lost. Gavaskar was once our best test batsman but we don't play him now. 2) Dhoni's test captaincy is beyond comprehension now. Intolerable to put it mildly. He has always been more of a LOI player at heart. His brief good performance in tests as captain , till 2011, is largely due to lack of challenging foreign tours against quality opposition. When he faced quality opposition overseas , he became abysmal. 3) As an Indian fan, I am not really bothered about which player is doing what in the IPL. We are bothered about their performance when they play for our country. 4) Kohli is captaining in his first test. You guys have already decided that he is no good ...but Dhoni's overseas test captaincy in the last 3 years .. 1-13 ...does not move you !!!! Wow !! Very fair indeed !

[Lord]

A few points --- 1) Dhoni's India captaincy can be divided into 2 parts (a) Till 2011 when he was doing really well. ( b ) 2012 to 2014 -- He has been really very bad. Everything comes with an expiry date and Dhoni the captain is way past his selling date. This fact should be recognized. He now looks tired, overworked, bereft of ideas, lost. Gavaskar was once our best test batsman but we don't play him now. 2) Dhoni's test captaincy is beyond comprehension now. Intolerable to put it mildly. He has always been more of a LOI player at heart. His brief good performance in tests as captain , till 2011, is largely due to lack of challenging foreign tours against quality opposition. When he faced quality opposition overseas , he became abysmal. 3) As an Indian fan, I am not really bothered about which player is doing what in the IPL. We are bothered about their performance when they play for our country. 4) Kohli is captaining in his first test. You guys have already decided that he is no good ...but Dhoni's overseas test captaincy in the last 3 years .. 1-13 ...does not move you !!!! Wow !! Very fair indeed !

Agree with everything except the bolded. We won in NZ and drew in SA before 2011 but couldnt do it since.Thats because our batting was very good and allowed us to put good totals most times and Zaheer and Harbhajan were good too.Post 2011,both batting and bowling collapsed horribly.Even our young team has same problems.The batting is inconsistent and struggles even vs spin,fast bowlers are wayward and less said about the spinners the better.Plus there's new problem of dropping catches nowadays Obviously thats not too say Dhoni isnt to blame,but we have other basic areas whereas unless we improve,we will not win consistently.Even the greatest captain would have his work cut out with that

[express bowling]

Agree with everything except the bolded. We won in NZ and drew in SA before 2011 but couldnt do it since.Thats because our batting was very good and allowed us to put good totals most times and Zaheer and Harbhajan were good too.Post 2011,both batting and bowling collapsed horribly.Even our young team has same problems.The batting is inconsistent and struggles even vs spin,fast bowlers are wayward and less said about the spinners the better.Plus there's new problem of dropping catches nowadays Obviously thats not too say Dhoni isnt to blame,but we have other basic areas whereas unless we improve,we will not win consistently.Even the greatest captain would have his work cut out with that

If Dhoni actually did well in a couple of away tours 4 years back and is doing the way he is doing now for the last 3 years ... it proves even more that he is tired, burnt out , negative, nepotistic and bereft of ideas now. A team's performance is always dependant on the players .... even more than the captain actually. This applies to both good as well as bad results. Our test team is going through a transformation now. At a time like this the importance of a good captain is felt even more . A captain who is positive, proactive, aggressive, motivating and astute at picking proper players. Not someone who is jaded , lost and nepotistic.

[dragonfly]

All the match proved is that our bowlers/tail and lower middle order is shyte.

Didn't really need this match to prove that.

[bharat297]

Dhoni is a poor captain Clarke is an average captain.Still Dhoni kept India as no.1 much longer than Clarke could manage with Aussies Aussies are currently better than us becoz they have better bowlers in Johnson and Harris .Nothing to do with Clarke the captain We will improve as well once the the likes of Bhuvi Umesh and Aaron gain experience . Also we will soon overtake Aussies in the rankings becoz all our tough overseas tours are over.Considering our schedule over next 2-3 years we will be very close to no.1 whether Dhoni or Kohli is captain

You think having good bowlers and good captaincy are mutually exclusive? Remember Ryan Harris and Mitchell Johnson played in 2010/11 during the losing Ashes series too. Your point about Dhoni keeping India as No.1 longer than Clarke, as if that somehow proves a point is ridiculously ignorant. You've completely ignored where they played, who they played, away performances, and just taken 1 metric (time spent as No.1) as a measure of captaincy. Yet at the same time, you refused to give credit to Clarke for winning the Ashes 5-0 at home saying "that was at home". Well Dhoni's led Indian team got to No.1 without playing a single Test match away from home. From the time Dhoni took over in 2008 to the time India became No.1 in the world in mid-2010, India played all their Tests at home. Once India had some overseas matches in 2010-11 onwards, we all saw what happened. At least Michael Clarke's Australian team beat the World No.1 team in their own backyard. That is something not many captains in the world can boast.

[KFC_Zinger]

He won us the final with one of the great ever knocks in a final and even brought himself up the order! It shows he is a big match player.. Out of form yet played a match winning innings to win us the World Cup!

I dont think he alone won us the final... we lost two early wickets and then Gambhir and Kohli steadied the ship and gave India the advantage.... After that Gambhi / Dhoni took the match away from them.... Moreover Dhoni batting was nowhere to be seen throughout the world cup So how did Dhoni alone win it for us, the guys who actually did well are Sachin / Viru / yuvi / Zak etc etc....

[kruiser]

we missed Dhoni the batsman, not Dhoni the captain..

[bulbul]

we missed Dhoni the batsman' date=' not Dhoni the captain..[/quote'] In overseas tests both are same :giggle:

[Switchblade]

In overseas tests both are same :giggle:

:haha: