Vilander Posted January 21, 2015 Posted January 21, 2015 Ishant is the only tallest we have. So we have no choice but to play him. His height enables natural bounce. Nipples not impressed.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Starc had plenty of swing.. none of our bowlers could repeat that even under lights. Swing depends on various factors. Also, a conventional left armer will get the slightest of swing available.
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Swing depends on various factors. Also' date=' a conventional left armer will get the slightest of swing available.[/quote'] You can spin anyway you want.. there are certain bowlers can swing anywhere.. certain bowlers can't. Current lot we have need overwhelmingly swinging conditions to even slightly exploit it. That is a fact.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 You can spin anyway you want.. there are certain bowlers can swing anywhere.. certain bowlers can't. Current lot we have need overwhelmingly swinging conditions to even slightly exploit it. That is a fact. BK can swing anywhere too which means swing wasnt there and there wasnt a lot of swing available anyway even too Starc, but if you swing the balll at that pace accurately even that little swing is tough to handle. It wasn't like Starc swung the ball miles. BK did get some swing too but lacked that pace. Sometimes, extra pace also helps you with swing.
Insidious Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Swing depends on various factors. Also' date=' a conventional left armer will get the slightest of swing available.[/quote'] IF that is the case, then why starc couldn't able to find any swing with the new ball against us in test series in India. While bhuvi got 2 3-fers in that, all with new ball, even in flat condition. To me it is all about the type of ball, Bhuvi can get swing with SG or Duke in any conditions, but struggle with white Kookaburra if conditions are not conducive. Remember t20 world cup match against westIndies? Bhuvi was swinging the ball miles on a flat pitch. Even check any IPL match, you can see in every match bhuvi swings the ball, so why can't in australia?
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 BK can swing anywhere too which means swing wasnt there and there wasnt a lot of swing available anyway even too Starc' date=' but if you swing the balll at that pace accurately even that little swing is tough to handle. It wasn't like Starc swung the ball miles. BK did get some swing too but lacked that pace. Sometimes, extra pace also helps you with swing.[/quote'] Not really. BK used to be a good swing bowler. Nowadays even in swinging conditions his swing is not that prodigious. Something is not right.
CG Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 IF that is the case' date=' then why starc couldn't able to find any swing with the new ball against us in test series in India. While bhuvi got 2 3-fers in that, all with new ball, even in flat condition. To me it is all about the type of ball, Bhuvi can get swing with SG or Duke in any conditions, but struggle with white Kookaburra if conditions are not conducive. Remember t20 world cup match against westIndies? Bhuvi was swinging the ball miles on a flat pitch. Even check any IPL match, you can see in every match bhuvi swings the ball, so why can't in australia?[/quote'] Have u seen starc length those are basically full balls ,he at 140ks with his height can afford to bowl at that length.B.k bowls good length ,few balls he pitched up he got swing.
CG Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Not really. BK used to be a good swing bowler. Nowadays even in swinging conditions his swing is not that prodigious. Something is not right. These are not swinging conditions,Here u need to bowl full which pk used to do where as b.k is always on shorter side .
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 These are not swinging conditions' date='Here u need to bowl full which pk used to do where as b.k is always on shorter side .[/quote'] Exactly that is where they differ. PK, Irfan, RP, Zak, Nehra could all pitch is further up to exploit the swing. Other day Starc's deliveries were all full.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Exactly that is where they differ. PK' date=' Irfan, RP, Zak, Nehra could all pitch is further up to exploit the swing. Other day Starc's deliveries were all full.[/quote'] PK played in Aus 2008 and his wicket balls were not really full.
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 PK played in Aus 2008 and his wicket balls were not really full. He cannot possibly swing with his pace and action. Except when he attempted short balls he was slightly fuller.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 He cannot possibly swing with his pace and action. Except when he attempted short balls he was slightly fuller. Here is the pitch map mountain of BK against Aus and the highest mountain is in that perfect 6-7 meter mark most often. Dont think he could hit lengths any better than this. http://www.espncricinfo.com/carlton-mid-triangular-series-2015/engine/match/754749.html?view=hawkeye
express bowling Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 BK gets some zip off the deck when he bowls well. He is a skiddy bowler. He is not getting that now. That has affected his performances too.
MK55 Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Here is the pitch map mountain of BK against Aus and the highest mountain is in that perfect 6-7 meter mark most often. Dont think he could hit lengths any better than this. http://www.espncricinfo.com/carlton-mid-triangular-series-2015/engine/match/754749.html?view=hawkeye A bit off topic ..but after looking at the data and comparing it with the Australian bowlers, I guess line is a bigger problem for Umesh than length. I don't see much issues with the length
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 A bit off topic ..but after looking at the data and comparing it with the Australian bowlers' date=' I guess line is a bigger problem for Umesh than length. I don't see much issues with the length[/quote'] Yes, Umesh's problem is line.
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPE--cLn-7A]Irfan Pathan best Yorker ever to Gilchrist, 2003 04 - YouTube[/ame] Look at how he bowls with Kookaburra.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPE--cLn-7A]Irfan Pathan best Yorker ever to Gilchrist' date=' 2003 04 - YouTube[/url'] Look at how he bowls with Kookaburra. That was just one ball and was reverse swing with old ball at SCG. Exception is not norm. BK has bowled such deliveries with Kookaburra in India with new ball. In fact, most India bowlers have bowled some unplayable deliveries time to time.
vvvslaxman Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 That was just one ball and was reverse swing with old ball at SCG. Exception is not norm. BK has bowled such deliveries with Kookaburra in India with new ball. In fact' date=' most India bowlers have bowled some unplayable deliveries time to time.[/quote'] Difference is Irfan despite bowling at snail's pace could always swing the ball in most of the conditions. Bhuvaneswar is not the same i saw in India against Pakistan. Combination of some niggle and kookaburra ball he is not able to swing. Under lights it swings. You yourself said under lights bowlers will get assistance. Only bowler who is capable of exploiting it is Kumar. he is not at his best. Shami is good with the scruffed up SG ball.
rkt.india Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Difference is Irfan despite bowling at snail's pace could always swing the ball in most of the conditions. Bhuvaneswar is not the same i saw in India against Pakistan. Combination of some niggle and kookaburra ball he is not able to swing. Under lights it swings. You yourself said under lights bowlers will get assistance. Only bowler who is capable of exploiting it is Kumar. he is not at his best. Shami is good with the scruffed up SG ball. Remove minnows stats and Irfan is as bad as any. You are exaggerating everything about him. If those guys were that good they would not have gone out of the team in first place and would have had better stats. Regarding swing, low pace is always ideal for swing. The quicker you are, the less swing you will get. Both Pathan and BK have had ideal pace for swing but swing depends on various factors. Some balls swing, some don't. One Kookaburra ball might swing more than other one. Same for other type of balls. It is not as simple. Another example Sydney test, India's Ist innings, first new ball didnt swing, but suddenly 2nd new ball started swinging. In England 2010 batch duke balls swung more.
CG Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 Remove minnows stats and Irfan is as bad as any. You are exaggerating everything about him. If those guys were that good they would not have gone out of the team in first place and would have had better stats. Regarding swing, low pace is always ideal for swing. The quicker you are, the less swing you will get. Both Pathan and BK have had ideal pace for swing but swing depends on various factors. Some balls swing, some don't. One Kookaburra ball might swing more than other one. Same for other type of balls. It is not as simple. Another example Sydney test, India's Ist innings, first new ball didnt swing, but suddenly 2nd new ball started swinging. In England 2010 batch duke balls swung more. Irfan was faster in those days he was 130-140ks .B.k is a defensive bowler looking to contain he should have more deliveries be more at 4-5 mt mark to get swing .Personally i feel if we have look for guys who can pick wickets at the top.Even if we keeps runs down its not going to work when batsman get settled.Aaron was a gamble india should have taken .Ishant has to play and open the bowling
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