mishra Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 The very fact that we need laws to prevent people from killing their own daughters in the womb/at births ....says it all.Millions of girls killed is not rhetoric. It is a social problem. Our mentality wrt girl child needs to change. In modern day and age, participation of girls and women in general is improving. Indian Government needs to do more. However linking preferential treatment to boy child isnt related to rape. Even Chinese, have the same menatlity.
Crookbond Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 I can only present facts and fact is statistically (average wise- check the table again) India is a safer place. Unless you come with some evidence your intuitions are just as good as intuitions. There is something called "interpretation" and science when fact are concerned. Here, you are short of both. Social scientists have said that rape statistics can't be compared. There are hazaar papers on it as well as news articles. But, lets bury our heads in the sand.
beetle Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 I had always thought you were pro-choice. Selective abortion is discriminatory killing ...not pro choice. I am pro choice with in reason. Beyond a certain period...the rights of the fetus should be taken into account too....unless mother's health is in danger.
beetle Posted June 9, 2015 Posted June 9, 2015 It is a social problem. Our mentality wrt girl child needs to change. In modern day and age, participation of girls and women in general is improving. Indian Government needs to do more. However linking preferential treatment to boy child isnt related to rape. Even Chinese, have the The question is of safety. Rape is not the only offense. Killing a child because of it's sex is a bigger crime. Millions of girls are not safe in the wombs of their mother or in the parental home ...which should be the safest place for her.Rape is atleast socially unacceptable.Selective abortions are socially acceptable by a large population with explains the sex ratio.
Brainfade Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Selective abortion is discriminatory killing ...not pro choice. I am pro choice with in reason. Beyond a certain period...the rights of the fetus should be taken into account too....unless mother's health is in danger. Any elective abortion (aborting a fetus for reasons other than rape, incest of health of mother.) is killing, no? Not just gender-selective abortion? By your logic, killing female fetuses would be acceptable as long as an equal number of male abortions are also carried out. BTW, I am vehemently against selectively aborting female fetuses. I am also vehemently against electively aborting male fetuses.
CG Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 The only time i felt threatened in India is when a policeman approaches me. I live in UK and dont feel it safe to go out at night. The difference is, In India I/everyone feel secure because of society, System is secondry. In West, System is primarily responsible for your safety, else few teens will beat you to ICU cos they felt like beating someone today and society wont intervene cos they are afraid of system Good Point.Allthough Never had unpleasant Experience Personally abroad But i always had Good company.The Topic and posts are emotional and Dramatic.Talking About Standard of Living And Choices Each has their own preference.Quality of life is what should be discussed not standard of living.
Crookbond Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Any elective abortion (aborting a fetus for reasons other than rape' date= incest of health of mother.)is killing, no? Not just gender-selective abortion? By your logic, killing female fetuses would be acceptable as long as an equal number of male abortions are also carried out. BTW, I am vehemently against selectively aborting female fetuses. I am also vehemently against electively aborting male fetuses. Reminds of me of the "Worst Argument in the World" http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?p=2092320
Brainfade Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Reminds of me of the "Worst Argument in the World" http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showthread.php?p=2092320 Care to explain? I am listening. Either all elective abortions, including gender-selective ones, are OK. Or no elective abortion is OK. (Definition of elective abortion: Any termination of pregnancy for reasons other than rape, incest, health of mother or health of fetus.) Not sure why the abortion of a female fetus should be deemed illegal whereas the abortion of a male fetus for non-gender-related, but other frivolous reasons are OK.
Tiger80 Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Selective abortion is discriminatory killing ...not pro choice. I am pro choice with in reason. Beyond a certain period...the rights of the fetus should be taken into account too....unless mother's health is in danger. There are medical techniques with whom sex of foetus can be determined in 6-13 weeks.and many beileve that abortion upto 3 months is fine. If there are 2 women seeking abortion one at 8 week and due to sex selection other at 11 week due to her career.How can we say that one seeking abortion for career is perfectly O.K but the one seeking because of gender is killing
beetle Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Any elective abortion (aborting a fetus for reasons other than rape' date= incest of health of mother.) is killing, no? Not just gender-selective abortion? By your logic, killing female fetuses would be acceptable as long as an equal number of male abortions are also carried out. BTW, I am vehemently against selectively aborting female fetuses. I am also vehemently against electively aborting male fetuses. Killing for no good reason is wrong. Selecting a fetus on the basis of sex is like hunting down the babies in the womb. Selective abortion of boys is not a reality so we can worry about the ones being killed for now.A fetus is a baby irrespective of the sex. Personally,I would never ever be able to abort a fetus,no matter what the reason except probably a medical reason that would kill us both .
beetle Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 There are medical techniques with whom sex of foetus can be determined in 6-13 weeks.and many beileve that abortion upto 3 months is fine. If there are 2 women seeking abortion one at 8 week and due to sex selection other at 11 week due to her career.How can we say that one seeking abortion for career is perfectly O.K but the one seeking because of gender is killing A person seeking abortion for career is irresponsible and wrong. If you are mature enough to have sex,you should make sure you don't make babies.(this goes for both partners)and if you make a mistake ,then adjust and live with it.If it is not ok to kill your parents or sibling for a career,how is it okay to kill a baby? As for killing based on gender...how would you feel if someone got into a school,segregated the girls and killed them just because they are girls. Sounds bad?????How is gender based killing any different?Here the parents are getting into individual womb to do the killing.Is hunting them from classroom to classroom any less gruesome?
coffee_rules Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Care to explain? I am listening. Either all elective abortions, including gender-selective ones, are OK. Or no elective abortion is OK. (Definition of elective abortion: Any termination of pregnancy for reasons other than rape, incest, health of mother or health of fetus.) Not sure why the abortion of a female fetus should be deemed illegal whereas the abortion of a male fetus for non-gender-related, but other frivolous reasons are OK. Pro-Life vs Pro-choice debate. Pro-choice doesn't mean one wants to kill a baby. There are various opinions, theories about when does life begin in a foetus. In adverse cases of pregnancy, like rape and incest, abortion can be elective, if it is done within the min time among various opinions about when life begins. Because even if the baby gets to live, it would be the worst kind of life that no one wishes for anybody. As a parent, one gets to decide the wellbeing of their children. Now, pro-lifers talk about adoption and foster care. It is not a solution as there are worst experiences that child goes through in these choices that government or establishments make. Other than these, any kind of abortion should not be allowed. I have known people who accidently get pregnant and decide to get aborted, just because they didn't mean to get,or didn't plan it. Kiya hain tho nibhao. Careless people.
rkt.india Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 I am pro choice but no gender discrimination allowed.
rkt.india Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Other than these, any kind of abortion should not be allowed. I have known people who accidently get pregnant and decide to get aborted, just because they didn't mean to get,or didn't plan it. Kiya hain tho nibhao. Careless people. It is not a life till its inside. People have all rights to decide until it is not based on gender discrimination.
Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Care to explain? I am listening. Either all elective abortions, including gender-selective ones, are OK. Or no elective abortion is OK. (Definition of elective abortion: Any termination of pregnancy for reasons other than rape, incest, health of mother or health of fetus.) Not sure why the abortion of a female fetus should be deemed illegal whereas the abortion of a male fetus for non-gender-related, but other frivolous reasons are OK. There is an interesting paragraph on "Abortion is Killing" and why it is a non-central fallacy listed in the article.
Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 A person seeking abortion for career is irresponsible and wrong. If you are mature enough to have sex' date=you should make sure you don't make babies.(this goes for both partners)and if you make a mistake ,then adjust and live with it.If it is not ok to kill your parents or sibling for a career,how is it okay to kill a baby? As for killing based on gender...how would you feel if someone got into a school,segregated the girls and killed them just because they are girls. Sounds bad?????How is gender based killing any different?Here the parents are getting into individual womb to do the killing.Is hunting them from classroom to classroom any less gruesome? Birth control is not 100% effective.
Tiger80 Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 A person seeking abortion for career is irresponsible and wrong. If you are mature enough to have sex,you should make sure you don't make babies.(this goes for both partners)and if you make a mistake ,then adjust and live with it.If it is not ok to kill your parents or sibling for a career,how is it okay to kill a baby? As for killing based on gender...how would you feel if someone got into a school,segregated the girls and killed them just because they are girls. Sounds bad?????How is gender based killing any different?Here the parents are getting into individual womb to do the killing.Is hunting them from classroom to classroom any less gruesome? If you are against all abortion then I have nothing to say but anyone consider aborting foetus for gender as killing while for other reason is pro choice is double standard .its like someone segreting girls and killing them is killer but other person who kill irrespective of gender is not even a criminal
Brainfade Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 There is an interesting paragraph on "Abortion is Killing" and why it is a non-central fallacy listed in the article. Based on my training in molecular genetics, I respectfully disagree with that part of the article. Over the years, I have posted the reasons numerous times on this board. But, for argument's sake, let's grant that abortion is not killing. So, why should gender-selective pregnancy terminations be criminal, but not other elective terminations? What if it is the mother's choice to terminate because she does not want to carry a female fetus? Her body, her choice, her reasons. Please note that we are taking rape, incest, mother's health and fetus health off the table. We all agree that such abortions are unavoidable. The only point of contention is other abortions.
Brainfade Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Birth control is not 100% effective. The parties concerned know that going in and must accept the risks and consequences, no?
Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Based on my training in molecular genetics, I respectfully disagree with that part of the article. Over the years, I have posted the reasons numerous times on this board. But, for argument's sake, let's grant that abortion is not killing. So, why should gender-selective pregnancy terminations be criminal, but not other elective terminations? What if it is the mother's choice to terminate because she does not want to carry a female fetus? Her body, her choice, her reasons. Please note that we are taking rape, incest, mother's health and fetus health off the table. We all agree that such abortions are unavoidable. The only point of contention is other abortions. I never said that man. I was only responding to the "abortion is killing" argument. The non-central fallacy isn't based on molecular genetics FYI.
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