zen Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 Chalo bro...beggars hi sahi. I had opened the thread to apologise to you, so let me say sorry for harsh words. I can't stand the generalized proclamations like 'India is unsafe for women' and coming for our own people settled abroad (the NRIs), it sounds 10 times worse. Anyways, you are free to say whatever you want and I will just end with a sorry for the harsh words. Well, no need to apologize as I don't take things personally on the internet I understand, but Ind is unsafe for women. Read the papers, tourists get raped in Rajasthan, Delhi, etc. A women from Nepal was cruelly raped and then killed in Punjab or Haryana, In UP the two sisters were hanged, .... ....Young kids were abused in Banglore by teachers, ..... This is just one aspects of bad India, there are so many other as well. Can you imagine a society with over 5000s years of history does not have proper waste management in place? How disorderly a population can be when they can drive properly on road? When I was living in India, I usually used to travel by car or on plane. Once I was in a train in traveling 2nd class sleeper, iirc. At night, many people started farting one after the other in the compartment. There were so many weird noised, and it was very awkward being in the compartment. From that day, I never traveled by train The pollution is actually very bad. People who have lived both in India and abroad are amongst the best to see the difference. These are the valid issues that NRIs (or people of Indian origin) criticize, hoping that the country that they love will improve It is constructive criticism. People who have advanced degrees from developed countries realize the importance of constructive criticism / feedback .... Usually people who care provide such criticism And as I said Ind (and Indians) should be criticized for the right issues and will be criticized
zen Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 No one disagrees that there are good and bad in all countries. We have many threads in both CC and Politics section where we all have criticized India and continue to do so. However, what does a thread on NRI parents and other issues have to do with BJP donations, Modi, pollution, infrastructure, traffic jams,etc ? Come on dude :two_thumbs_up: Because the purpose of this thread is to unnecessarily malign NRIs And if Ind was that great why would it want to be a developed country? This is what you wrote, not me: This is prompted by another thread on an NRI woman using excuse of India being unsafe for her daughter ( same India where she presumably grew up and again presumably was safe enough to sit on a plane to US ) to defend her decision ( which was always hers to make - just that the silly excuse was unwarranted ). Just wanted to expand the discussion. No one questions the right of an individual to make a move that makes economic sense. However, the issue is hypocrisy of many NRIs ( not all ) where they try and justify their ( perfectly understandable ) decision for their own well-being on external factors like XYZ is safe, pollution free, I am helping India through remittances,etc.
zen Posted June 10, 2015 Posted June 10, 2015 PS I hv been both an Ind and an NRI. And now a foreign national, however love for Ind stilll as strong as ever When discussing issues inPak, we say why dont moderates stand up against hardliners. This thread is probably an example of what they would be facing from hardliners in Pak In Ind, i was visiting a famous temple. I parked my car in a general area. Some goondas came asking for toll. I said there is no toll for parking here. They said if you want to park here you will hv to pay us a toll. I refused and they said something could happen to my car. I told them if anything happens to my car, i ll hv you guys thrown out of this town. I m going to the temple now. After I come back I dont want to see you guys here. Have I made myself clear. The goondas were shocked by my attitude. I spent some time in the temple and forgot about these guys. When i was heading back to my car, i saw some ppl running away and hiding from me. They were the goondas. They probably thought if i see them, i ll throw them out of the town. i also acted like I was searching for them. I probably solved the unauthorized toll collection problem in the area In Ind, you hv to stand up to solve problems. Otherwise things will not change. Criticizing NRIs is not the solution
beetle Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 I know a couple of who sent their kids to India for 6-8 months when their kids were only 2-4 months old. We (my wife and I) were shocked but they have their own choices, I may never do this but why do we judge others? Maybe they really need money to take care of themselves and their family back home. Maybe their parents are ok with it and maybe from their POV they are making the bigger sacrifice by being away from their kid just to help their families back home. The point is that its what people do everywhere, I cant imagine going on a vacation to hawaii without my little kids but people want alone time with their spouses and do go. Are they all bad people? I have seen kids in India who are being raised by grandparents as both parents leave early for work and come back late at night. Some parents dont really even care and their kids spend most of the time with the domestic help, how is it different from people in USA who drop their kids at childcare at 7 and pick them up at 6? People have their own issues, agenda, goals and thinking. Its very difficult to judge. People leaving daughters behind for 'sanskari living' while themselves choosing the 'asankari country' for whatever reason is just sick. Anyways...why have kids if you don't have space in your life or life style for them? Children are human beings, not the morning dump that people have to have. Agree...who are we to judge.....but when their children judge them later in life,they should not bring up the sacrifices they made....
flamy Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Some top posts by desi, and a brilliant one by beetle :hatsoff: I just wanted to drop in my two cents paise that for me personally, it is not really about the money. Maybe because I'm single and still rent :--D For me really it is about the lifestyle. I won't get to sit in medicine ceremonies, interact with high-level qigong masters, learn Capoeira on Thursday and Gaelic on Monday etc. USA is a melting pot of cultures from all over. This is what makes it worth living here for me. And I absolutely love proudly being an Indian here. I get to delve into the purity of Indian culture (really ironic) without the noise of modern India, which is busy copycatting USA. I adore India, it is where I am from. I love USA, it is where I am now. I don't really harbor much nationalistic feelings. I am born Indian, and I am happy to be recognized as one. If I stay some more time in the USA, there will be GC etc. But, that won't make me American. I don't make such associations. At the core, I am an earthling. Mama Gaia
Kalia_Test Posted June 11, 2015 Author Posted June 11, 2015 Because the purpose of this thread is to unnecessarily malign NRIs And if Ind was that great why would it want to be a developed country? This is what you wrote, not me: Selectively highlighting stuff and trying to put words in someone's mouth helps nobody. Your barrage of responses on lines of " see India is bad too " is no different from typical Pakistani responses BTW.
FischerTal Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Some top posts by desi, and a brilliant one by beetle :hatsoff: I just wanted to drop in my two cents paise that for me personally, it is not really about the money. Maybe because I'm single and still rent :--D For me really it is about the lifestyle. I won't get to sit in medicine ceremonies, interact with high-level qigong masters, learn Capoeira on Thursday and Gaelic on Monday etc. USA is a melting pot of cultures from all over. This is what makes it worth living here for me. And I absolutely love proudly being an Indian here. I get to delve into the purity of Indian culture (really ironic) without the noise of modern India, which is busy copycatting USA. I adore India, it is where I am from. I love USA, it is where I am now. I don't really harbor much nationalistic feelings. I am born Indian, and I am happy to be recognized as one. If I stay some more time in the USA, there will be GC etc. But, that won't make me American. I don't make such associations. At the core, I am an earthling. Mama Gaia Same here. I'm slowly becoming like this as well :icflove:
Kalia_Test Posted June 11, 2015 Author Posted June 11, 2015 The dilemma of NRIs - http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/open-page/the-nris-a-life-of-dilemma/article2376883.ece Good article on academic and other expectations that NRIs seem to put on their children The Never Return is a unique breed of people. Their uniqueness lies in the fact that they think they are the most fortunate people in this world. For them India is a third world country which is confined to those once-in-a-few-years visits for the sake of completing the formality of seeing their loved ones. For them India is a chaotic, unhygienic and polluted place where they can't live for a second without Bisleri water and where the sound of honking is noise pollution. Having said this, they don't take the Indianness out of them because it will make them look out of sync with their identity — with their colonial masters — once they go back to their “holy†land. As such, anything to do with Indian “culture†needs to be imbibed — oops culture which suits their convenience, not culture in its purest form. Essentially, for this bunch of people being Indian is an opportunistic tool to sustain and increase their economic and social status in the land of the colonial masters. One among the many issues is excessive academic expectations confronting the children — courtesy their NRI parents. Whether it is getting into Harvard or being the top in the school, there is no dearth of obsessive competition. The poor second generation kid is subject to immense pressure and his/her talents is more or less confined to the narrow path of engineering and not other streams of study. Not only does this reduce the appetite for the children, it makes their options and mindset for the future narrow. It is more of the NRI parent imposing what “they†want to be rather than what the “children†want to be. The main issue is the massive expectation they have from their children and therein lies the crux of the next issue confronting the NRIs. For example, there is no point in the NRI parent living in a country for 20 years and then expecting the children to grow up the way “they want†and marry the person whom they think is good enough. Expectations such as marital affairs are a crucial part of the illusion that is confronting the NRIs. It is very crucial that they come to terms with the reality and set their priorities straight in life. Essentially, the crux of the issue confronting all NRIs is the weight of expectation one thrusts on the younger generation and the illusion with which they subject themselves oblivious of the practical consequences of the choices that they have made in their lives. Whether one is in the Never Return or Now Return category, the NRIs need to confront issues head on rather than live in a illusion of their own!
zen Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Selectively highlighting stuff and trying to put words in someone's mouth helps nobody. Your barrage of responses on lines of " see India is bad too " is no different from typical Pakistani responses BTW. Arre bhai I m suggesting that NRIs write negative about Ind because there are valid points that need to be addressed. It should be taken as constructive criticism as now they have experiebced more than 2 ebvironments. ..... And I gv examples of areas that need to improve including safety for women
Kalia_Test Posted June 11, 2015 Author Posted June 11, 2015 Arre bhai I m suggesting that NRIs write negative about Ind because there are valid points that need to be addressed. It should be taken as constructive criticism as now they have experiebced more than 2 ebvironments. ..... And I gv examples of areas that need to improve including safety for women Bhai - You are assuming many things about the intention of this thread. In my view and others also , that NRI lady decision had nothing to do with India and safety. We felt it was just to satisfy herself . This was our view . We made these same points in that thread and left it alone. This thread is different. I am not sure why people are getting defensive . Are NRIs and their problems, issues immune to discussion? Why should conditions in India come into picture here? The entire forum has threads about violence, lack of Infra, Pollution, Corruption and other stuff in India. Do we really have to bring all that here? Even I have been an NRI and I mentioned in this thread also. It does not mean I keep comparing all the time in all threads. It gets boring and repetitive. You can look at all articles I quoted and the points I was trying to bring up. They all were about issues that NRIs face ( and it is possible that the author might have referenced India here and there in narration ) and even some ways in which they are being tackled. If people are hell-bent on making this an NRI vs resident India debate - I can't help.
zen Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Bhai - You are assuming many things about the intention of this thread. In my view and others also , that NRI lady decision had nothing to do with India and safety. We felt it was just to satisfy herself . This was our view . We made these same points in that thread and left it alone. This thread is different. I am not sure why people are getting defensive . Are NRIs and their problems, issues immune to discussion? Why should conditions in India come into picture here? The entire forum has threads about violence, lack of Infra, Pollution, Corruption and other stuff in India. Do we really have to bring all that here? You can look at all articles I quoted and the points I was trying to bring up. They all were about issues that NRIs face ( and it is possible that the author might have referenced India here and there in narration ) and even some ways in which they are being tackled. If people are hell-bent on making this an NRI vs resident India debate - I can't help. Because the OP mentions that many/some NRIs are hypicrates. Why are the hypicrates? Because in your opinion, they write bad abiut Ind where they grew up and became good enough to go abroad I suggested why they do it as explained in the last post. On some of the issues being discussed here, they could be applicable to all type of scums whether living in Ind or abroad. I dont find many of the issues duscussed here to be only NRI specific
Kalia_Test Posted June 11, 2015 Author Posted June 11, 2015 Because the OP mentions that many/some NRIs are hypicrates. Why are the hypicrates? Because in your opinion, they write bad abiut Ind where they grew up and became good enough to go abroad I suggested why they do it as explained in the last post. On some of the issues being discussed here, they could be applicable to all type of scums whether living in Ind or abroad. I dont find many of the issues duscussed here to be only NRI specific Ok baba - All NRIs are demi-Gods. Even some can never be hypocrites. I get told what my own opinion is :facepalm: . There are no NRI issues. All issues are applicable everywhere. NRIs cannot have any issues you see. Why discuss? India has so many problems, fix roads first...:two_thumbs_up:
Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Well, no need to apologize as I don't take things personally on the internet I understand, but Ind is unsafe for women. Read the papers, tourists get raped in Rajasthan, Delhi, etc. A women from Nepal was cruelly raped and then killed in Punjab or Haryana, In UP the two sisters were hanged, .... ....Young kids were abused in Banglore by teachers, ..... This is just one aspects of bad India, there are so many other as well. Can you imagine a society with over 5000s years of history does not have proper waste management in place? How disorderly a population can be when they can drive properly on road? When I was living in India, I usually used to travel by car or on plane. Once I was in a train in traveling 2nd class sleeper, iirc. At night, many people started farting one after the other in the compartment. There were so many weird noised, and it was very awkward being in the compartment. From that day, I never traveled by train The pollution is actually very bad. People who have lived both in India and abroad are amongst the best to see the difference. These are the valid issues that NRIs (or people of Indian origin) criticize, hoping that the country that they love will improve It is constructive criticism. People who have advanced degrees from developed countries realize the importance of constructive criticism / feedback .... Usually people who care provide such criticism And as I said Ind (and Indians) should be criticized for the right issues and will be criticized NO NO NO, it is NOT. I lived for 10 years in some midwest village in the US and there was this one time I read in the news paper someone was raped. Clearly, US is WORSE than India for women. Sorry, I have to go now - need to call my sister who is returning from home late night in India to check if she's ok.
Kalia_Test Posted June 11, 2015 Author Posted June 11, 2015 Clearly this thread touched a few raw nerves....Ouch :cantstop: Only truth hurts that much IMO :agree:
Crookbond Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 The truth hurt so much that I had to create a separate thread. :winky2:
Kalia_Test Posted June 11, 2015 Author Posted June 11, 2015 The truth hurt so much that I had to create a separate thread. :winky2: What's the use though? Bunch of insecure posters are hell-bent on mixing up things so that they can feel better :winky:
zen Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 Ok baba - All NRIs are demi-Gods. Even some can never be hypocrites. I get told what my own opinion is :facepalm: . There are no NRI issues. All issues are applicable everywhere. NRIs cannot have any issues you see. Why discuss? India has so many problems' date=' [b']fix roads first...:two_thumbs_up: The fact is that your thread has not gone well with many so if it is not the intent, it could be the presentation .... in either case, there is no point in suggesting how things have been misconstrued and how insecure or whatever are NRIs If Ind offered suitable career opportunities to all, a healthy environment, and a disciplined society, people would not go abroad and thus thread such as these could be Indians doing this or that, and which is exactly how this topic should have been presented (not just NRIs but Indians which would include NRIs) Also NRI problems have two dimensions to them - a) the effects on their families in Ind, and b) the effects on those immigrating to the new country (including having to build life from scratch in a new environment) .... which is why an NRI in Iraq would have different issues to deal with than an NRI in say USA. And ofc there is the aspect of understanding and agreements within the extended families as well And I agree with you on scums who use people in India including their family to go abroad and than forget their families. But the mentality of these people is such that they would do something or the other anyways whether they go abroad or stay in Ind. Say how many times you see a son ignoring his parents after getting married? To me, such problems fall in to the same parameters as someone going abroad and ignoring his parents Enough said
punjabi_khota Posted June 11, 2015 Posted June 11, 2015 PS I hv been both an Ind and an NRI. And now a foreign national, however love for Ind stilll as strong as ever When discussing issues inPak, we say why dont moderates stand up against hardliners. This thread is probably an example of what they would be facing from hardliners in Pak In Ind, i was visiting a famous temple. I parked my car in a general area. Some goondas came asking for toll. I said there is no toll for parking here. They said if you want to park here you will hv to pay us a toll. I refused and they said something could happen to my car. I told them if anything happens to my car, i ll hv you guys thrown out of this town. I m going to the temple now. After I come back I dont want to see you guys here. Have I made myself clear. The goondas were shocked by my attitude. I spent some time in the temple and forgot about these guys. When i was heading back to my car, i saw some ppl running away and hiding from me. They were the goondas. They probably thought if i see them, i ll throw them out of the town. i also acted like I was searching for them. I probably solved the unauthorized toll collection problem in the area In Ind, you hv to stand up to solve problems. Otherwise things will not change. Criticizing NRIs is not the solution :hysterical: Rett the great
Kalia_Test Posted June 11, 2015 Author Posted June 11, 2015 The fact is that your thread has not gone well with many so if it is not the intent, it could be the presentation .... in either case, there is no point in suggesting how things have been misconstrued and how insecure or whatever are NRIs If Ind offered suitable career opportunities to all, a healthy environment, and a disciplined society, people would not go abroad and thus thread such as these could be Indians doing this or that, and which is exactly how this topic should have been presented (not just NRIs but Indians which would include NRIs) Also NRI problems have two dimensions to them - a) the effects on their families in Ind, and b) the effects on those immigrating to the new country (including having to build life from scratch in a new environment) .... which is why an NRI in Iraq would have different issues to deal with than an NRI in say USA. And ofc there is the aspect of understanding within the extended families as well And I agree with you on scums who use people in India including their family to go abroad and than forget their families. But the mentality of these people is such that they would do something or the other anyways whether they go abroad or stay in Ind. Say how many times you see a son ignores his parents after getting married? To me, such problems fall in to the same parameters as someone going abroad and ignoring his parents Enough said On bolded, given that this board is >70% NRIs ( I don't have the exact number but my guess from my few years of interaction here ) and since the topics are touchy - I would have been a fool if I did not expect some outrage and attempts to sidetrack it. However, I have to admit that I was not aware that people are so sensitive here. On the issues, say parents - we are trying to discuss the ones specific to NRIs. If we go by your logic, when a bomb blast happens in say Afghanistan, do you discuss that and how Afghanistan should handle such stuff or go about saying it is not Afghan problem, there was a bomb blast in London too, some in Syria, Iraq? Get the drift? If you want to discuss parents not being taken care in India - you can easily open a thread. My next topic will be on Indian Ghettos in US ( maybe other countries too) and the 'Island' within a nation. I have some good links in another comp so maybe I will post that aspect of NRIs tomorrow or so :two_thumbs_up:
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