MCcricket Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I must apologize for my spell check as it sucks, especially with Android on Nexus 7, plus is hard to type on Tab, but m sure u guys understand
Gollum Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I mentioned test n not test series' date=' I think they won a test n India had to work hard to draw or maybe win that one, this was with young Hoggard I believe[/quote'] He captained his side in 2001(that Sachin-Giles series). We won the series 1-0. http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63961.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63962.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63963.html
adi B Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I mentioned test n not test series' date=' I think they won a test n India had to work hard to draw or maybe win that one, this was with young Hoggard I believe[/quote'] I think they toured india in 2001 amd lost the test series 1-0 .they lost the first match and then came back strongly in the next 2 but rain intervened in Bangalore.that was the time when we experimented with youhanan amd co
Marut Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 From the Home WI tour of 2011-2012 until the home series against England(the first test) Yadav was the rising star...He was amazing and then he got injured and bizarrely never came back...how do we justify that? Was it dhoni's fault that he got injured? I agree injuries screwed up both Yadav and Aaron. Hopefully they can make a comeback in future. The problem is we had a poor team over the past four years and arguing that another captain would have won or drawn the tours in SA, Eng, NZ and Aus is wishful thinking on our part. In the past, the option of drawing matches were available because players like Gavaskar, Sachin and Dravid could play for long periods of time. Recently, more and more tests are result oriented - mostly because scoring rates are faster and batsmen have lost the skill to defend dourly. Since India did not have a team capable of taking 20 wickets, a win was ruled out most of the time. Modern batsmen don't know how to draw matches because they don't know how to defend for 120 overs. So Dhoni was losing match after match, and any Indian captain in his place would have done the same. In modern cricket, you either win or lose - there is no middle ground, even a captain who is not poor can look very poor if he does not have the right team.
MCcricket Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Was it dhoni's fault that he got injured? I agree injuries screwed up both Yadav and Aaron. Hopefully they can make a comeback in future. The problem is we had a poor team over the past four years and arguing that another captain would have won or drawn the tours in SA, Eng, NZ and Aus is wishful thinking on our part. In the past, the option of drawing matches were available because players like Gavaskar, Sachin and Dravid could play for long periods of time. Recently, more and more tests are result oriented - mostly because scoring rates are faster and batsmen have lost the skill to defend dourly. Since India did not have a team capable of taking 20 wickets, a win was ruled out most of the time. Modern batsmen don't know how to draw matches because they don't know how to defend for 120 overs. So Dhoni was losing match after match, and any Indian captain in his place would have done the same. In modern cricket, you either win or lose - there is no middle ground, even a captain who is not poor can look very poor if he does not have the right team. There were a few test we could have won if not for his captaincy n selections during that period
MCcricket Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 I think they toured india in 2001 amd lost the test series 1-0 .they lost the first match and then came back strongly in the next 2 but rain intervened in Bangalore.that was the time when we experimented with youhanan amd co Yes the stats do not show that we were saved by the weather as England then gave us a run for the money, their team was very poor and everyone thought it would be a walk in the park, I think Nass was one of then best captains that I have seen, if he had a half decent side he would have a great record too, his batting was so so but captaincy was fantastic, one of the sharpest minds
Gollum Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Yes the stats do not show that we were saved by the weather as England then gave us a run for the money' date=' their team was very poor and everyone thought it would be a walk in the park, I think Nass was one of then best captains that I have seen, if he had a half decent side he would have a great record too, his batting was so so but captaincy was fantastic, one of the sharpest minds[/quote'] No doubting that. SRT in his autobiography named Nasser as the best captain he ever saw in action.
Vijy Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 No doubting that. SRT in his autobiography named Nasser as the best captain he ever saw in action. Nasser was, like most of the best Eng captains, best in Tests. In ODIs, he wasn't that great.. but that's because the Brits have never deemed ODIs as "cricket".
MCcricket Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Nasser was' date=' like most of the best Eng captains, best in Tests. In ODIs, he wasn't that great.. but that's because the Brits have never deemed ODIs as "cricket".[/quote'] Dhoni was his opposite in all ways
Marut Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 There were a few test we could have won if not for his captaincy n selections during that period We came close occasionally, we simply did not have the killer instinct to close out games. Plus there were fielding lapses in important games - Baz was dropped three times enroute his triple ton, else India could have won a test in NZ. We had a chance to beat SA at Jo'berg but our premier bowlers in Zaheer and Ishant flopped completely, allowing SA to have a shot at a fourth innings target of 450. In hindsight it appears that India had a chance to win some of the games, but our bowling always lacked the ability to deliver the knockout punch. In Australia, we came within striking distance in Adelaide, but chasing 360 is rarely accomplished. I don't think we had a realistic chance of winning any test with this bowling.
MCcricket Posted August 25, 2015 Posted August 25, 2015 Like a sculptor or artist a captain, coach has an opportunity to build their own team n strengthen the one they have inherited, not having the attack to win also means captain hasn't developed a team after such a long sting not even one Bowler? We do not have any potential fast bowlers? I believe we will see positive changes under Kohli n Dhoni being the master of excuses was a poor planner, thinker n did not have a vision or take risk, a Bowler will always tell u how much captaincy plays a big part in their success, Dhoni did most things wrong in this role, youngsters were sitting out for year n more on the benches n not given chances, fast bowlers were ridiculed, add to it poor selection, it would take a miracle to stumble upon a good Bowler then or making a decent attack.
Shivaji bhonsle Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Kohli so far has been mostly talk. Nothing much has changed from previous regime. It's just a classic case of short term memory and living in the present, because India won, Kohli is now talked off as "aggressive" , etc. After the 1st test defeat, people were bashing Kohli's captaincy. India will only go as far as VJ, Rahane and Ashwin take them in test cricket and to a lesser extent Kohli as batsman. Not really. Going with 5 bowlers is a great start. He is new to test captaincy at the age of 26. Give him some time.
rkt.india Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Dhoni was a fantastic ODI player but not the G.O.A.T even in the WK-bat category in ODI's leave alone as a standalone batsman... Dhoni is the greatest WK/batsman in ODIs, can even make ODI wold XI just as a pure batsman.
Vijy Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Dhoni is the greatest WK/batsman in ODIs' date=' can even make ODI wold XI just as a pure batsman.[/quote'] He is probably the greatest regular keeper-batsman in ODIs ever. Amongst irregulars, ABDV has been outstanding.
swatpulla Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Kohli so far has been mostly talk. Nothing much has changed from previous regime. It's just a classic case of short term memory and living in the present, because India won, Kohli is now talked off as "aggressive" , etc. After the 1st test defeat, people were bashing Kohli's captaincy. India will only go as far as VJ, Rahane and Ashwin take them in test cricket and to a lesser extent Kohli as batsman. Or maybe you haven't paid any attention to the matches. It isn't just about this win, Kohli has won people ever since he decided to go for a win in the 1st Aussie Test. Since then, from Bangladesh series to Lankan Test, he has carried on with that attitude, which is a welcome change from the dull Dhoni era.
swatpulla Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 He is probably the greatest regular keeper-batsman in ODIs ever. Amongst irregulars' date=' ABDV has been outstanding.[/quote'] Even if ABDV was a regular, he has never been close to Dhoni when it comes to taking the pressure and rising to occasion. He has only bashed WI and minnows like a beast, while his performances against other sides haven't been of the same level.
Vijy Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Even if ABDV was a regular' date=' he has never been close to Dhoni when it comes to taking the pressure and rising to occasion. He has only [b']bashed WI and minnows like a beast, while his performances against other sides haven't been of the same level. Avg of 63 against Oz, 46 against Ind, 55 against NZ, 62 against Pakis and 54 against SL. If this is how you define a minnow basher, you have (ridiculously) high standards. Besides, ABDV averages 75 in Oz, 64 in Ind, 143 in NZ, 57 in Pak, 51 in SA and 44 in SL and UAE. All of them are very god figs. His only failures have been against Eng (and in Eng) and I expect him to rectify it soon. That's like calling Dhobi a SC basher... in Eng, Aus, NZ, SA and WI against the top teams (excluding Zim, Bang and associates) he averages 43 as opposed to career avg of 52. Roles played by both have been different too. ABDV is a top order bat whose job is to score runs upfront, while MSD has played a finisher role a la Bevan. This is why the SRs are very different as well. All I can say is that it's disappointing to see MSD fanboys fail to accept that there are great ODI batsmen other than him (MSD is ATG, but there are others as well).
jusarrived Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 ^ its nothing to do with Dhoni , but AB for all his talents has underachieved which stats wont tell you . He has played very few games which he has won highhandedly , even in comparison to Virat whos a Top order batsmen . AB is superior to both Virat and Dhoni , but I wold not trust him when the pressure is on , not counting the IPL
jusarrived Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Btw for some one who mentioned that Virat will be concentrating on pure training . http://sports.ndtv.com/sri-lanka-vs-india-2015/news/247572-virat-kohli-leads-as-team-india-enjoy-badminton-tuk-tuk-ride
jusarrived Posted August 26, 2015 Posted August 26, 2015 Coming back to topic I heard Rahul could be opening as well as keep ?
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