Pace and Hype

[HippoSucks]

How you are so sure he wasn't part of it , scorecard of that match show that Srinath played in that

http://www.oocities.org/jackie_hewitt_uk/scard.html

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/icc_cricket_worldcup2011/content/records/283875.html doesn't have Srinath, although some other scorecards of this match do. 

[Vilander]

lol those guys get sick on that day or get sick for a week etc...Imran, Dennis you guys are trundlers.

[renjith]

Just saying that .....as in almost all sports which involve speed, power, time, distance etc.   bowling speeds must have improved somewhat on an average over 35 to 40 years.

agree with this.

[renjith]

oh bhai. You will have to add at least 20-30 kph if speed is measured at batsman's end. That is Ho much pace ball loses when it reaches batsman.

 

 

 

thanks for the info. 5kph was a wild guess.

Edited January 12, 2016 by renjith

[renjith]

As far as I know...all speeds measured from 1975 onwards have been release speeds.  I had posted a video earlier in this thread when scientists were comparing the speeds of Akhtar with Thomson etc. and talking about the bowling competitions of the "70s.  If they were not comparable then scientists would not compare.

Upon reaching the batsman...speed reduces in the range of 15 %   to  30 % depending on the type of pitch. whether the ball has landed on the seam, what the wind speed is and wind direction is, whether any underspin has been imparted by the pacer etc etc.

Those speeds could not have been at the batsman's end. That means Thomson had a release speed of  174 k even if we consider a 15 % reduction and  211 k if we consider a 30 % reduction . That too at a time when he was bowling slower after injury       

The reduction is roughly between 10 %  to  20 % if we consider reduction after pitching.

 

I remember Thomson mentioning in one of his interviews that the method used in 1979 competition was speed at batsman's end. I'll post it here if I can find it from YouTube. 

[HippoSucks]

I remember Thomson mentioning in one of his interviews that the method used in 1979 competition was speed at batsman's end. I'll post it here if I can find it from YouTube. 

While I do think that Thomson was probably the fastest bowler ever, I don't think he was fast enough to bowl in the 140km/h range measured from the batsman's end after his injury.

[Rightarmfast]

I guess this speed competition was held just after Diana memorial match in England which was Sirnath's first match after his injury. So if he did take part, this would be correct speed because for some time, Srinath did bowl military medium after his injury. So nothing wrong with the speeds!

[Rightarmfast]

If you guys were watching the match, Waseem Akram just mentioned Srinath as being very quick.

[express bowling]

If you guys were watching the match, Waseem Akram just mentioned Srinath as being very quick.

Exactly. Heard it too and posted on the match thread.

Said that he was quick and definitely bowled 140 k +.

[express bowling]

The WACA pitch is not as as fast and bouncy as it was in the 1970's and '80s but still has bounce.

All Aussie pacers, including Hazlewood, are bowling 130 k to 136 k.  But, because of the bounce of this wicket , some of Hazlewood's deliveries have flied through. 

Aussie commentators are trying to talk up the pace of their trundlers on seeing this.  

This is how myths of some pacers are created ....when they have the opportunity of bowling on fast and bouncy pitches match after match.

This is how bowlers like Lillee, Pascoe etc. created their reputation although they were not that quick most of the times.

 

[Rightarmfast]

Good observation!

[HippoSucks]

The WACA pitch is not as as fast and bouncy as it was in the 1970's and '80s but still has bounce.

All Aussie pacers, including Hazlewood, are bowling 130 k to 136 k.  But, because of the bounce of this wicket , some of Hazlewood's deliveries have flied through. 

Aussie commentators are trying to talk up the pace of their trundlers on seeing this.  

This is how myths of some pacers are created ....when they have the opportunity of bowling on fast and bouncy pitches match after match.

This is how bowlers like Lillee, Pascoe etc. created their reputation although they were not that quick most of the times.

 

Australian pitches in the 1970s (especially Melbourne) weren't fast or had much bounce either.

Commentators aren't influential enough to form the reputations of those bowlers being so quick by themselves. Just like we can roughly see who a truly express bowler is without speed measurements, viewers in the past would have done the same and formed their opinions about the players.

[express bowling]

Australian pitches in the 1970s (especially Melbourne) weren't fast or had much bounce either.

Commentators aren't influential enough to form the reputations of those bowlers being so quick by themselves. Just like we can roughly see who a truly express bowler is without speed measurements, viewers in the past would have done the same and formed their opinions about the players.

Most Australian pitches of that era were very fast and bouncy....especially WACA, which was really fast and bouncy right till  2000.

Don't forget...in that era very few people had the opportunity to watch TV telecasts, telecasted matches often had just one camera or maybe two ...which did not give a correct impression of speed often , there were no speed guns, bowlers were bowling bodyline because of inadequate protective gear and no limitation on bouncers, 

With most people listening to radio....commentators were far more influential than nowadays.

Fast bowlers in those days were those who could hit the batsmen on the body ....often because they had bounce and bouncy wickets....not necessarily because of high release speeds.

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Aussie commies  are over estimating our current middle order. 

[renjith]

I remember Thomson mentioning in one of his interviews that the method used in 1979 competition was speed at batsman's end. I'll post it here if I can find it from YouTube. 

Its actually not fully clear to me what hes saying. But somewhere in the lines 10% speed need to be added to those values to make it comparable to the current measurements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nol94jVqCXk

[express bowling]

Its actually not fully clear to me what hes saying. But somewhere in the lines 10% speed need to be added to those values to make it comparable to the current measurements.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nol94jVqCXk

About 10 % reduction in speed happens upon pitching...on a fast deck. About 20 % on a slow deck.

About 17 %  to  27  % reduction happens at the batsman's end depending on the pitch, the wind speed and direction. seam position on release and upon landing, underspin on the ball etc.

 

Edited January 12, 2016 by express bowling

[Shivaji bhonsle]

Renjith. That's spot on. Speed was measured at the Bateman 's end in those days, but these days they measure the release point, the arm speed. Hence, the speed you see on speed guns are not closer to what they bowled in the past.

[express bowling]

 

 

Renjith. That's spot on. Speed was measured at the Bateman 's end in those days, but these days they measure the release point, the arm speed. Hence, the speed you see on speed guns are not closer to what they bowled in the past.

 

 

Not really possible. Then most  of those release speeds would be between 160 k and 210 k.

Edited January 12, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

 

 

Renjith. That's spot on. Speed was measured at the Bateman 's end in those days, but these days they measure the release point, the arm speed. Hence, the speed you see on speed guns are not closer to what they bowled in the past.

 

 

no that is not. Nowhere speeds are measured at batsman's end. It is frivolous to do that. If Thomson was clocked 160KPH in 1976 at  batsman's end, it means his release speeds were at least anywhere between 180-190 KPH which is impossible.

[Singh bling]

If you guys were watching the match, Waseem Akram just mentioned Srinath as being very quick.

So you guys are taking words of Akram , But what about words of Imran in the video of renjith that Holding was so quick that keeper was standing very far close to boundry and they were rushing to other end to face Roberts. Can a guy with average speed of 135 and fastest 141 be so dangerous?