India no longer producing readymade talent - Dhoni

[bharat297]

^ Dravid will never say stupid things like this... That's the difference... Check out recent comments by Dravid regarding Indian cricket..

Is it stupid to say that the standard of cricket in the Australian FC comps is higher than India's FC comps? Because that was the point Dhoni was making.

4-5 years is pushing it too much. Even prior to the Oz series, Dhobi was averaging around 52.5 in ODIs.

Yeah you're right. Probably last year or so as a batsman but has been running out of steam as a captain for a few years.

[rkt.india]

Is it stupid to say that the standard of cricket in the Australian FC comps is higher than India's FC comps? Because that was the point Dhoni was making.Yeah you're right. Probably last year or so as a batsman but has been running out of steam as a captain for a few years.

He said we arent producing readymade cricketers anymore? So it means we were producing them before?

[tweaker]

Bumrah has also shown our domestic cricket is strong enough .A player who was choosen as a replacement for a injured player straight away showed his calibre.

The onus is on selectors to choose players when they are in form.Manish Pandey had also shown by scoring a match winning century in chasing a 300 + score.

Selectors have different criteria for different players.Manish Pandey & Kedhar Jadhav were dropped inspite of good performance in Zimbabwe series.How can the selectors explain the logic of dropping a player after scoring a 100 in winning cause in overseas match.

Selectors have also this tendency to select certain player overseas & if they are successful also ,they drop them & select their favourite players for home series who are repeated failures.

[Vijy]

He said we arent producing readymade cricketers anymore? So it means we were producing them before?

Exactly my point earlier. We never produced a stream of ready made cricketers. Our best period as a team was during the mid and late-2000s but that relied on 3 eras (Kumble and Tendu from the early 90s), Dravid, Ganguly and VVS (from the mid 90s), and Gambhir (for a short period), Sehwag and Zak (the three from the early 2000s) followed by Dhobi. So, at most, in any given 5 year period, we produced 2-3 "ready made" cricketers. Hardly a lot. And if one considers the periods before and after that, it was even lesser.

 

Dhobi is indulging in the age-old nostalgic fallacy of how everything was better in the good 'ol days.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Vijy

[bharat297]

He said we arent producing readymade cricketers anymore? So it means we were producing them before?

Thats a fair point. I don't think we were producing many in the first place. 

I'm just disappointed that we are not taking the actually relevant point out of this, which is that out current FC system is so bad and desperately needs to be addressed. 

[Vijy]

Thats a fair point. I don't think we were producing many in the first place. 

I'm just disappointed that we are not taking the actually relevant point out of this, which is that out current FC system is so bad and desperately needs to be addressed. 

Our FC system has always been bad. It's one of the reasons why we never dominated WC for any extended period of time.

[bharat297]

Our FC system has always been bad. It's one of the reasons why we never dominated WC for any extended period of time.

Yes and that's the critical point out of Dhoni's comments that needs to be focused on. 

[Vijy]

Yes and that's the critical point out of Dhoni's comments that needs to be focused on. 

These days, everyone is out for Dhobi's blood (and mostly for good reasons), but they run the risk of missing the few good point that he does make.

[asterix]

Yes and that's the critical point out of Dhoni's comments that needs to be focused on.

Dhoni can complain as much as he likes, at the fag end of his career... What has he done from his end? He was the most powerful captain in Indian cricket for so many years....

[bharat297]

Dhoni can complain as much as he likes, at the fag end of his career... What has he done from his end? He was the most powerful captain in Indian cricket for so many years....

I agree that Dhoni hasn't done enough to improve Indian cricket domestically given his power but coming out in the media and declaring that there is an issue with FC cricket in India seems like a step in the right direction yeah?

These days, everyone is out for Dhobi's blood (and mostly for good reasons), but they run the risk of missing the few good point that he does make.

Exactly.

[Vijy]

I agree that Dhoni hasn't done enough to improve Indian cricket domestically given his power but coming out in the media and declaring that there is an issue with FC cricket in India seems like a step in the right direction yeah?

True. But, his tone verged on the defeatist (which is fine for us armchair critics), and as the captain he needs to convey the same message differentl.

[bharat297]

True. But, his tone verged on the defeatist (which is fine for us armchair critics), and as the captain he needs to convey the same message differentl.

Yeah and that's what I mean by separate what's being said from who is saying it. The message for the administrators is that the FC system is broken.

[Vijy]

Yeah and that's what I mean by separate what's being said from who is saying it. The message for the administrators is that the FC system is broken.

Just like the captain. And the bowlers. And the fielding. And the lower middle order batting. But not the top order and middle order batting.

[rkt.india]

Problem is dhoni used this line as an excuse. Good leaders always find ways to improve their team and cricket. He says he can only look at players, selectors give. Read his post match PC yesterday.

[rkt.india]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/964761.html

[New guy]

8 years in top and he still wants readymade talent. He was given immense power. He has players he supports who played for years. How muc hdid they develop? He has supported trundlers why did they not develop under him?

He has not developed a single talent like a good captain does. Ganguly is known for this. However Dhoni always got ready made talent. Even teh good talent we have, Kohli, Rahane were groomed by Sachin Dravid and not him. He has not developed a single bowler or batsman who has improved under him

 

[Vijy]

8 years in top and he still wants readymade talent. He was given immense power. He has players he supports who played for years. How muc hdid they develop? He has supported trundlers why did they not develop under him?

He has not developed a single talent like a good captain does. Ganguly is known for this. However Dhoni always got ready made talent. Even teh good talent we have, Kohli, Rahane were groomed by Sachin Dravid and not him. He has not developed a single bowler or batsman who has improved under him

 

Agree with this for the most part. However, one must note that certain players have made sufficient strides in the past couple of years - Nohit Sharma in ODIS is an example; Shikhar Dhawan (despite his clear failings) in ODIS is another. Now, I'm not claiming that Dhobi unearthed and/or mentored them, but it's true that these 2 have proven to be pretty successful in their latest avatars (Dhawan since his re-entry and Nohit as an opener).

[moniker]

I find this funny that everyone is against Dhoni for saying something we all knew anyway. It shows an inability from people to separate what is being said from who is saying it.

Dhoni has been struggling as a captain and batsman for the past 4-5 years (no doubt about it) but anyone who looks at the Australian FC tournaments can see its a better standard than Indian FC tournaments. Because Dhoni said it, people are going crazy.

If say Dravid said this, I doubt people would have had this reaction.

Dhoni didn't just say that Australian FC cricket is of a better standard than India's. He said that it is high quality and that it provides ready made international cricketers. There's a difference there.

Quality of cricket in the Sheffield Shield cricket has been declining for years now. The likes of Ponting have blamed the poor FC structure for Australia's poor ashes performances in England. It's not too long since they tried 15 spinners after Warne's retirement before settling down with Lyon. Heck, they haven't even found a replacement for Simon Katich yet, let alone Ponting and Clarke.

India's FC structure is still providing us with good batsmen. Our away batting performances in the past few years have been excellent.

We just have a lack of lower order hitters that's resulting in poor LOI performances. The test team is doing just fine.

[Vijy]

 

 

 

 

Dhoni didn't just say that Australian FC cricket is of a better standard than India's. He said that it is high quality and that it provides ready made international cricketers. There's a difference there.

 

Quality of cricket in the Sheffield Shield cricket has been declining for years now. The likes of Ponting have blamed the poor FC structure for Australia's poor ashes performances in England. It's not too long since they tried 15 spinners after Warne's retirement before settling down with Lyon. Heck, they haven't even found a replacement for Simon Katich yet, let alone Ponting and Clarke.

 

India's FC structure is still providing us with good batsmen. Our away batting performances in the past few years have been excellent.

 

We just have a lack of lower order hitters that's resulting in poor LOI performances. The test team is doing just fine.

 

 

 

 

Batting-wise, yes. As for the bowling, do you need to be reminded of that 450 chase in SA, the McCullum-Watling partnership, and of course the pathetic bowling in Oz?

[express bowling]

Our FC system has always produced good batsmen and rarely produced good bowlers. 

Everyone connected to cricket and even interested in cricket know this fact.

i actually feel that our current lot of batsmen are  better at playing pace and bounce than their predecessors barring  Sunil Gavaskar. Their problem is playing swing and that is because they don't get to play county cricket any more...not because of our domestic cricket.

We are producing lots of power hitters too...but somehow they are not being taken .

We have produced just 3 pacers with under 30 test average and no one with under 25 test average...so our problem with pacers is nothing new. We are actually producing more fast bowlers these days...and hopefully we will find a good fast bowler out of them soon.

Our current spinners are also as good or as bad as they used to be in the past. Very good in the sub-continent and average outside.

 

Two biggest steps needed for improvement of our domestic cricket are --

• Increasing the number of zonal matches and competitions being played ...so that the standard of opposition improves a lot. I don't think this will happen practically because individual state level officials wield a lot of power and don't like this concept as this will make them less relevant.
• Make sporting pitches with decent bounce in some matches, instead of mandatory green tops with lowish bounce that we find in most domestic games. These continuous green tops are giving rise to dibbly-dobbly  swing bowlers as big wicket takers in Ranji Trophy instead of bowlers who bowl with effort.  This step is possible practically.

Giving every prospective batsman at least one season of county cricket stint should be thought of too ...but won't really happen in practice due to the IPL.