Random God-Religion discussion thread

[panther]

So is Pak an enemy of Islam too? It has killed muslims in AFG, BD, along with supporting Kafirs such as US which has waged war on Islamic countries and which also supports Israel and Ind? 

 

China does not allow muslims to do Ramadan and fights against Ugurs, so is it an enemy of Islam too, along with Pak for supporting it? 

 

And also please answer my previous questions esp on Ahamedis, etc.

Put it this way Pakistan is not Islamic in reality although on paper some may try to convince you otherwise.

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[zen]

2 minutes ago, panther said:

Put it this way Pakistan is not Islamic in reality although on paper some may try to convince you otherwise.

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So if Pak is killing people of other Muslim sects, people of other Islamic countries, giving a bad name to Islam, etc., it is the true enemy of Islam? 

 

If ppl fight against this evil country that is misusing Islam, why should you have problems? 

[panther]

So if Pak is killing people of other Muslim sects, people of other Islamic countries, giving a bad name to Islam, etc., it is the true enemy of Islam? 

 

If ppl fight against this evil country that is misusing Islam, why should you have problems? 

I care less if Pak dissolves tomorrow but not at the hands of RSS fanatics like modi, no matter bad Pak is it is still better than RSS chadiwalas.

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[zen]

16 minutes ago, panther said:

I care less if Pak dissolves tomorrow but not at the hands of RSS fanatics like modi, no matter bad Pak is it is still better than RSS chadiwalas.

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What is RSS? 

 

PS and this brings us back to the question - why/how are Jews and idol worshippers clear enemy of Islam? 

Edited October 8, 2016 by zen

[panther]

What is RSS? 

Those calling for the break up of Pak want the country to resemble Syria or Iraq where outside powers meddled and destroyed the country, when a RSS fanatics calls for break up of Pakistan he should be careful for what he wishes for.

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[mishra]

50 minutes ago, panther said:

Baseless assumptions to say the least

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You only, have justified my logical conclusion. After my comments you took Sufi shield while cussing Sufi, shia, ahmedis and others ( but one you know who) sects in same thread.  After interacting with you in icf, If i am a Muslim parent i wont let my child anywhere near you, You probably now know why, may be you genuinely dont know why. God help you. 

[zen]

2 minutes ago, panther said:

Those calling for the break up of Pak want the country to resemble Syria or Iraq where outside powers meddled and destroyed the country, when a RSS fanatics calls for break up of Pakistan he should be careful for what he wishes for.

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Again I will ask - what is RSS? 

 

2nd, you said you have no prob if Pak breaks up. I want Pak to break up too. I m not RSS

 

3rd, this brings us back to the question - why/how are Jews and idol worshippers clear enemy of Islam? 

[panther]

Again I will ask - what is RSS? 

 

2nd, you said you have no prob if Pak breaks up. I want Pak to break up too. I m not RSS

 

3rd, this brings us back to the question - why/how are Jews and idol worshippers clear enemy of Islam? 

Ask modi he's one of their top students.

Not at the hands of outside powers who want Pak to resemble Syria,

Thirdly it is Zionist jews and Hindus who are meddling in Muslim countries and killing Muslims that is clear enough.

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[zen]

Just now, panther said:

Ask modi he's one of their top students.

Not at the hands of outside powers who want Pak to resemble Syria,

Thirdly it is Zionist jews and Hindus who are meddling in Muslim countries and killing Muslims that is clear enough.

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You are the one mentioning RSS? Not Modi who was awarded the highest honor by Saudi Arabia which runs Mecca and Medina

 

But Pak is an enemy of Islam so it appears as if you have no problem with supporting an enemy of Islam as long as it is Pak. Isn't Pak interfering in Islamic countries such as BD, AFG, etc. 

 

So what is meddling? Are Jews and Hindus stopping Muslims to go to mosque in Islamic countries? How are people of other religion and other Islamic sects treated in the Islamic countries?

[panther]

You are the one mentioning RSS? Not Modi who was awarded the highest honor by Saudi Arabia which runs Mecca and Medina

 

But Pak is an enemy of Islam so it appears as if you have no problem with supporting an enemy of Islam as long as it is Pak. Isn't Pak interfering in Islamic countries such as BD, AFG, etc. 

 

So what is meddling? Are Jews and Hindus stopping Muslims to go to mosque in Islamic countries? How are people of other religion and other Islamic sects treated in the Islamic countries?

Saudi kings are America lapdogs, irrelevant point.

Where did I say Pak is an enemy of Islam, the leaders are corrupt and incompetent but not enemies of Islam like modi or nentanyahu.

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[zen]

15 minutes ago, panther said:

Saudi kings are America lapdogs, irrelevant point.

Where did I say Pak is an enemy of Islam, the leaders are corrupt and incompetent but not enemies of Islam like modi or nentanyahu.

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If Saudi Kings are America's lapdogs, what is Pak whose economy and military is supported by American aid?

 

Muslims communities such as Ahamedis and Shaia suffer in Pakistan. 

 

"Shia: Caught in the Regional Cross Hairs

In 1974, under Zulfiqar ali Bhutto, Pakistanset up a cell within Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) to undertake covert operations.  Mohammed Daoud Khan had just ousted King Zahir Shah in Afghanistan and begun a liberalization program under Soviet patronage.  Afghan Islamists opposed this, and Daoud violently repressed them.  Many of these Islamists fled to Pakistan, where the ISI developed them for covert operations in Afghanistan.  Once Zia ul Haq seized the Pakistani government in a coup in 1977, he began to shape Pakistan into a Sunni Islamist state.  Some of his efforts, such as imposing the payment of zakat, were specifically antagonistic to Pakistan’s Shia who do not accept Sunni interpretations of zakat.  As Shia came under pressure, they began to mobilize.

Next door, Iran was convulsing into its Shia Islamic Revolution. Not only did Iran seek to export its revolution, it also saw itself as the key protector of Shia across the world.  Iran began supporting Shia militant groups fighting Zia’s efforts to render Pakistan a Sunni Islamic state.  When Iran and Iraq fell into war, Iraq involved itself in Pakistan’s emerging sectarian conflict.  As rival Sunni militant groups—most of which were Deobandi—began to mobilize against Shia in Pakistan, Iraq began resourcing anti-Shia militant organizations.  Soon the Arab Gulf states joined in to help marginalize Pakistan’s Shia, who were seen as Iran’s pawn in the region.  Thus Pakistan soon became the site of an elaborate sectarian proxy war between Shia Iran and its Sunni strategic competitors.

The Christmas day Soviet invasion of Afghanistan further catalyzed events that cultivated Pakistan’s sectarian killing fields.  Zia’s efforts to make Pakistan a Sunni Islamist state dovetailed with the growing need for (mostly) Sunni militants in Afghanistan.  (Zia preferred Sunni Islamist militants to fight a “jihad” in Afghanistan rather than an ethno-national insurgency against Soviet occupation.  He feared that the latter would precipitate renewed ethnic conflict in Pakistan, principally among its restive Pashtun populations who lived on the border with Afghanistan.)  Once President Carter left office, U.S. and Pakistani policy aligned.  President Reagan threw the weight of his government behind the Zia regime.  The Saudis also funded the manufacturing of jihadis by matching the U.S. contribution dollar for dollar.

When the Soviets finally left Afghanistan in 1989, the United States withdrew from the region.  However, Pakistan continued to use its well-developed stock of Sunni militants to help forge a pro-Pakistan disposition in Afghanistan.  At the same time, Indian mismanagement and malfeasance in Kashmir gave rise to an indigenous insurgency there.  Pakistan deployed the battle-hardened militants from the Afghan theatre to Kashmir.  By the early 1990s, Pakistani militants had overtaken the local insurgency and transformed the conflict from a local insurgent movement into one of international terror."

 

PS Ahmedias in Pak

 

"For the five million Ahmadis,^[8][9] religious persecution has been particularly severe and systematic inPakistan, which is the only state to have officially declared that Ahmadis are non-Muslims.^[10] Pakistani laws prohibit the Ahmadis from identifying themselves as Muslims, and their freedom of religion has been curtailed by a series of ordinances, Acts and constitutional amendments.^[11] When applying for a Pakistani passport, Pakistanis are required to declare that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was an impostor prophet and his followers are non-Muslims.^[12]

As a result, persecution and hate-related incidents are regularly reported from different parts of the country. Ahmadis have been the target of many violent attacks by various religious groups in Pakistan.^[13] Madrasahs of all sects of Islam in Pakistan prescribe reading materials for their students specifically targeted at refuting Ahmadiyya beliefs.^[14]"

Edited October 8, 2016 by zen

[panther]

If Saudi Kings are America's lapdogs, what is Pak whose economy and military is supported by American aid?

 

Muslims communities such as Ahamedis and Shaia suffer in Pakistan. 

 

"Shia: Caught in the Regional Cross Hairs

In 1974, under Zulfiqar ali Bhutto, Pakistanset up a cell within Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate (ISI) to undertake covert operations.  Mohammed Daoud Khan had just ousted King Zahir Shah in Afghanistan and begun a liberalization program under Soviet patronage.  Afghan Islamists opposed this, and Daoud violently repressed them.  Many of these Islamists fled to Pakistan, where the ISI developed them for covert operations in Afghanistan.  Once Zia ul Haq seized the Pakistani government in a coup in 1977, he began to shape Pakistan into a Sunni Islamist state.  Some of his efforts, such as imposing the payment of zakat, were specifically antagonistic to Pakistan’s Shia who do not accept Sunni interpretations of zakat.  As Shia came under pressure, they began to mobilize.

Next door, Iran was convulsing into its Shia Islamic Revolution. Not only did Iran seek to export its revolution, it also saw itself as the key protector of Shia across the world.  Iran began supporting Shia militant groups fighting Zia’s efforts to render Pakistan a Sunni Islamic state.  When Iran and Iraq fell into war, Iraq involved itself in Pakistan’s emerging sectarian conflict.  As rival Sunni militant groups—most of which were Deobandi—began to mobilize against Shia in Pakistan, Iraq began resourcing anti-Shia militant organizations.  Soon the Arab Gulf states joined in to help marginalize Pakistan’s Shia, who were seen as Iran’s pawn in the region.  Thus Pakistan soon became the site of an elaborate sectarian proxy war between Shia Iran and its Sunni strategic competitors.

The Christmas day Soviet invasion of Afghanistan further catalyzed events that cultivated Pakistan’s sectarian killing fields.  Zia’s efforts to make Pakistan a Sunni Islamist state dovetailed with the growing need for (mostly) Sunni militants in Afghanistan.  (Zia preferred Sunni Islamist militants to fight a “jihad” in Afghanistan rather than an ethno-national insurgency against Soviet occupation.  He feared that the latter would precipitate renewed ethnic conflict in Pakistan, principally among its restive Pashtun populations who lived on the border with Afghanistan.)  Once President Carter left office, U.S. and Pakistani policy aligned.  President Reagan threw the weight of his government behind the Zia regime.  The Saudis also funded the manufacturing of jihadis by matching the U.S. contribution dollar for dollar.

When the Soviets finally left Afghanistan in 1989, the United States withdrew from the region.  However, Pakistan continued to use its well-developed stock of Sunni militants to help forge a pro-Pakistan disposition in Afghanistan.  At the same time, Indian mismanagement and malfeasance in Kashmir gave rise to an indigenous insurgency there.  Pakistan deployed the battle-hardened militants from the Afghan theatre to Kashmir.  By the early 1990s, Pakistani militants had overtaken the local insurgency and transformed the conflict from a local insurgent movement into one of international terror."

 

PS Ahmedias in Pak

 

"For the five million Ahmadis,^[8][9] religious persecution has been particularly severe and systematic inPakistan, which is the only state to have officially declared that Ahmadis are non-Muslims.^[10] Pakistani laws prohibit the Ahmadis from identifying themselves as Muslims, and their freedom of religion has been curtailed by a series of ordinances, Acts and constitutional amendments.^[11] When applying for a Pakistani passport, Pakistanis are required to declare that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was an impostor prophet and his followers are non-Muslims.^[12]

As a result, persecution and hate-related incidents are regularly reported from different parts of the country. Ahmadis have been the target of many violent attacks by various religious groups in Pakistan.^[13] Madrasahs of all sects of Islam in Pakistan prescribe reading materials for their students specifically targeted at refuting Ahmadiyya beliefs.^[14]"

The Mahdi will come soon and rule the world with justice.

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[panther]

You only, have justified my logical conclusion. After my comments you took Sufi shield while cussing Sufi, shia, ahmedis and others ( but one you know who) sects in same thread.  After interacting with you in icf, If i am a Muslim parent i wont let my child anywhere near you, You probably now know why, may be you genuinely dont know why. God help you. 

Your 'logical' assumptions are not so logical.

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[zen]

21 minutes ago, panther said:

The Mahdi will come soon and rule the world with justice.

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So in essence ppl like you are the evil problem. You want ppl to accept your version of religion when neither Jews or Hindus want to convert you or stop you from going to Mosque. But you want them to not go to temples (but to mosques). When ppl fight such evil ideas, you see them as enemies of Islam while convienently ignoring the grave problem of how many Muslims treat other Muslims esp of different sects 

 

The evil that you represent is what is being fought against

[panther]

So in essence ppl like you are the evil problem. You want ppl to accept your version of religion when neither Jews or Hindus want to convert you or stop you from going to Mosque. But you want them to not go to temples (but to mosques). When ppl fight such evil ideas, you see them as enemies of Islam while convienently ignoring the grave problem of how many Muslims treat other Muslims esp of different sects 

 

The evil that you represent is what is being fought against

So in essence you are blind and their is no point in discussing with you.

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[zen]

1 minute ago, panther said:

So in essence you are blind and their is no point in discussing with you.

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What is that you want to discus - that some Mahdi will come and that I should be in fear? Am I asking you to believe any version of my religion or who will issue the judgment or whatever? .... what is it that you want to discuss? 

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, panther said:

It's just my observation, also during the life of the Prophet idol worshippers and Jews caused him the most harm.

This isn't to say that all are the same but in a general sense.

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Well he stole their religion and warped it. So they are mad at him. The same way Muslims are mad at Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of the Ahmaddiyyas for stealing their religion and warping it.

 

[mishra]

53 minutes ago, panther said:

Your 'logical' assumptions are not so logical.

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Once again! Hope your god is worth the trouble. 

you very well know you have been caught pants down unless you delete few of your earlier posts

Edited October 8, 2016 by mishra

[panther]

Well he stole their religion and warped it. So they are mad at him. The same way Muslims are mad at Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of the Ahmaddiyyas for stealing their religion and warping it.

 

When Mirza ghulam Ahmed has 1.6 billion followers than come back and post.

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[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, panther said:

When Mirza ghulam Ahmed has 1.6 billion followers than come back and post.

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So you mean in 500 years, when Ahmadiyyas have hundreds of millions of followers, then muslims are going to be okay with the fact that they stole their religion and warped it ?

 

Yes, mo was very successful. But i am just telling you why Jews hate him and its a valid reason. The same reason why Muslims hate Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is the same reason Jews hate Mohammed.