Singh bling Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Quote With 65% of ATMs Nonoperational, Goldman Warns India Is "Returning To Barter System" http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-09/65-atms-nonoperational-goldman-warns-india-returning-barter-system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tibarn said: Let's take the worst number presented, 2% from PM Singh and Ambit Capital. That number is presented as GDP growth reduction, so instead of 7.5% GDP growth from the last year, it would go down to 5.5 % growth. This is different than a contraction of our GDP by 2 % where it would mean the GDP would lose $ 40 billion USD. The drop in growth rate is definitely something that is a valid and fair criticism, but some are spreading misinformation that our economy is going to contract, which no one serious has predicted. Yes this is probably a multiple month event. I personally predicted that it will be 2 quarters of effects on the GDP, not sure at what percent, which translates to 6 months of effects. Again, this is a valid criticism, whether it is a worthwhile trade-off to effect multiple months of GDP growth. Yes, there should be better job creation, but I don't think highly of the FM, and the PM is showing no signs of replacing him. Even last year, when we had a 7.5% GDP growth, job creation was middling. We still have not been able to boost manufacturing so far, but there is a lag effect before the reforms the government has put into place come into effect, so one shouldn't expect immediate job creation. The FDI is a different issue, as, although we are getting record FDI input, much of it is going into already better off states like MH, GJ, HR, TN, TG, AP, etc. The places where FDI would have the greatest effect ie WB, UP, BH are run by goons who have no idea what they're doing and thus attract no FDI. Agree, but it's hard to even know what the objective is, as the PM first talked about Black Money and then switched to Cashless Economy. I personally supported the move for two reasons: 1) It hit the Maoists and Kashmiri terrorists hard, and 2) It looks to me like the PM may be doing the ArthaKranti reforms, which is a big deal IMO. If he doesn't do (2), then I will be disappointed. cashless economy is a bail out. Arthakranti have themselves backed out that this is not what they had given as a recommendation. Only the fake currency argument holds water but the amount is 400 crore as per govt reports. Maoists and terrorists can easily regenerate. One time dent to them may be yes, but no steps to prevent re-occurrence. I wont contest GDP figures as I don't think it has material impact to the common man. Inflation and Jobs do. Edited December 11, 2016 by Haarkarjeetgaye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Singh bling said: Don't have any knowledge about it http://www.legallyindia.com/law-firms/t-t-zeus-founder-rohit-tandon-declares-rs-125-crore-to-taxman-after-raids-20161020-8056 looks like standard havala guy with law background. Guy was officially going to open a office in Dubai this is the news on TOI which got removed from page 1 very quickly http://m.timesofindia.com/india/Rs-2-6-crore-in-new-notes-among-Rs-13-56-crore-seized-from-Delhi-law-firm/articleshow/55920155.cms Edited December 11, 2016 by mishra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeautifulGame Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 In this case you can because the increase in deposits is going to sustain till currency is back in circulation. Here writing off assets in based on increase in assets for a period. Yes liability increases on the balance sheet, but with controlled withdrawal, the liability is for the future, not immediate. Also imagine writing off without the deposits, was it possible. what is the other source of revenue for the bank. The new loans from these deposits as you said. If banks had strictly conformed to Basel reforms, Indian banks would have never ensued a bad loans or NPA problem. Firstly the limitations are only for cash withdrawal .Any amount can be withdrawn by online transfer even now .Even based on that faulty concept the liability isnt for future . And as I earlier ,no one can write of assets based on increase in liability.It is written off by provisioning profits . What is the other source of income ? Nowadays treasury operations are a major portion of the profit column . Banks actually strictly adhere to Basel norms when it comes comes to declared NPA.The problem with bad loans was because of hiding of actual bad loans not provisioning for declared NPAs because that's a centralised process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, BeautifulGame said: Firstly the limitations are only for cash withdrawal .Any amount can be withdrawn by online transfer even now .Even based on that faulty concept the liability isnt for future . And as I earlier ,no one can write of assets based on increase in liability.It is written off by provisioning profits . What is the other source of income ? Nowadays treasury operations are a major portion of the profit column . Banks actually strictly adhere to Basel norms when it comes comes to declared NPA.The problem with bad loans was because of hiding of actual bad loans not provisioning for declared NPAs because that's a centralised process If your point is the write off could have happened without these deposits, then I disagree on that point. The cash deposits have enabled write off and also given an additional channel of revenue for the bank through loans. liability has increased but assets have also increased thereby providing the flexibility of writing off potential assets. Writing of 1 in 10 is difficult, but writing off 1 in 15 is easier. How can bad loans be hidden on a balance sheet. it must have reflected on the balance sheet as receivables. Your point on online transfer is right, but how many of these depositors have online accounts to transact. If they had that, there was no need for these lines in front of the bank. And I think that is the primary reason too why government did not print notes in advance and the exchange is not happening. You have to question why the limit on withdrawal. Why government or RBI did not print enough notes before making this move. There in lies the delayed liability and ability to write off. Edited December 12, 2016 by Haarkarjeetgaye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeautifulGame Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 If your point is the write off could have happened without these deposits, then I disagree on that point. The cash deposits have enabled write off and also given an additional channel of revenue for the bank through loans. liability has increased but assets have also increased thereby providing the flexibility of writing off potential assets. Writing of 1 in 10 is difficult, but writing off 1 in 15 is easier. How can bad loans be hidden on a balance sheet. it must have reflected on the balance sheet as receivables. Your point on online transfer is right, but how many of these depositors have online accounts to transact. If they had that, there was no need for these lines in front of the bank. And I think that is the primary reason too why government did not print notes in advance and the exchange is not happening. It doesn't matter how many have online account now.They can come to bank ask to it to be transferred to another account via RTGS. Anyway these are moot because banks don't act deposits like this .The RBI regulations are clear on this anyway .All I was trying is to point out was the fault in the logic . No what I am saying is this increase in deposits have no correlation with write offs in NPA .That is solely dependent on the increase in profits as I earlier pointed out and that's a long term scenario. Bad loans are hidden for years by showing them as still performing loans .Trust me there are lot of tricks to achieve that .Till Raguram Rajan forced banks to come clean with real time NPA concept , every bank was hiding large amount of NPA as performing assets .That's why every bank posted huge losses this march . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said: It doesn't matter how many have online account now.They can come to bank ask to it to be transferred to another account via RTGS. Anyway these are moot because banks don't act deposits like this .The RBI regulations are clear on this anyway .All I was trying is to point out was the fault in the logic . No what I am saying is this increase in deposits have no correlation with write offs in NPA .That is solely dependent on the increase in profits as I earlier pointed out and that's a long term scenario. Bad loans are hidden for years by showing them as still performing loans .Trust me there are lot of tricks to achieve that .Till Raguram Rajan forced banks to come clean with real time NPA concept , every bank was hiding large amount of NPA as performing assets .That's why every bank posted huge losses this march . It matters. These people need cash and they are not getting it because currency is not available. If there was an exact exchange, my point would hold little water. There was nothing with the banks to show profits. I do believe there is a correlation but we can agree to disagree on that. Edited December 12, 2016 by Haarkarjeetgaye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeautifulGame Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 It matters. These people need cash and they are not getting it because currency is not available. If there was an exact exchange, my point would hold little water. There was nothing with the banks to show profits. I do believe there is a correlation but we can agree to disagree on that. How does it matter ? Any individual can come to a bank branch to transfer funds online.He doesn't need to have an online account .That's the basic fault in your logic. I am not sure get rest of your points , but if believe increase in deposits will directly enable write off NPA accounts then u are mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New guy Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, BeautifulGame said: How does it matter ? Any individual can come to a bank branch to transfer funds online.He doesn't need to have an online account .That's the basic fault in your logic. I am not sure get rest of your points , but if believe increase in deposits will directly enable write off NPA accounts then u are mistaken. This is hilarious. Even with lots of money in your account, dealing with banks is currently a nightmare. For example, SBI branches near my house in Bangalore, will only accept transactions if your account is in that branch. Even if you have an SBI account but different branch, they wont help On a regular day, SBI branches in Kolkata has long lines just to get forms to open accounts and the staff are extremely rude. All these before going digital Edited December 12, 2016 by New guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeautifulGame Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 This is hilarious. Even with lots of money in your account, dealing with banks is currently a nightmare. For example, SBI branches near my house in Bangalore, will only accept transactions if your account is in that branch. Even if you have an SBI account but different branch, the wont help And SBI branches I have went in hometown on friday hardly have much rush now and actually prefer you do RTGS because they actually have shortage of physical cash.These are individual examples. You are not even understanding the actual point.Banks don't have any guarantee over the the money deposited in terms of time period because there is no limit on transfer online . It doesn't matter how rush is today , there is no limit .That is the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibarn Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 velu 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 5 hours ago, BeautifulGame said: Firstly the limitations are only for cash withdrawal .Any amount can be withdrawn by online transfer even now .Even based on that faulty concept the liability isnt for future . And as I earlier ,no one can write of assets based on increase in liability.It is written off by provisioning profits . What is the other source of income ? Nowadays treasury operations are a major portion of the profit column . Banks actually strictly adhere to Basel norms when it comes comes to declared NPA.The problem with bad loans was because of hiding of actual bad loans not provisioning for declared NPAs because that's a centralised process Theory and practical are two different things.Indian small business market is full of people which are not trustworthy.My last tenant use to give me cash as long his business was fine once business start going down he started giving me cheque , reason put 5-10 date advance in cheque then before clearing date give phone call my payment is delayed don't put cheque and then cheque bounce. Result Today he left my property with 50-60 k due rent .Now My new tenant is fan of online transfer 1 st month he delayed rent in this month I called him on 7 and asked him transfer rent. Today I received call that there was technichal glitch I will transfer it by evening today.Now I am suspicious this person. In future I may have to ask him give cash if this is the way he will do. Sorry to say most people on online Don't have any idea how business market on small scale work in India.Black money is not the only reason why people prefer cash transtactions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Tibarn said: Bank officials are new target of BJP and RSS propaganda machinery. They are now trying to shift entire blame on them http://hindutva.info/modi-sarkaar-ki-taiyaariyn-to-puri/ tweaker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Quote My business will be finished’: Cash crunch hits farmers in Punjab http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/my-business-will-be-finished-cash-crunch-hits-farmers-in-punjab/story-1uDg1xpm0CPqDgfqguSwiI.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeautifulGame Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Theory and practical are two different things.Indian small business market is full of people which are not trustworthy.My last tenant use to give me cash as long his business was fine once business start going down he started giving me cheque , reason put 5-10 date advance in cheque then before clearing date give phone call my payment is delayed don't put cheque and then cheque bounce. Result Today he left my property with 50-60 k due rent .Now My new tenant is fan of online transfer 1 st month he delayed rent in this month I called him on 7 and asked him transfer rent. Today I received call that there was technichal glitch I will transfer it by evening today.Now I am suspicious this person. In future I may have to ask him give cash if this is the way he will do. Sorry to say most people on online Don't have any idea how business market on small scale work in India.Black money is not the only reason why people prefer cash transtactions Really that does not have anything to do with what I have posted . As for your tenant if he is saying glitch for online transfer , then he is obviously lying.The best option is always to ask for e-receipt if done via e-banking or just ask for UTR No if he has done it through the bank and check with his corresponding bank.These aren't theory but practical solutions most people practice . I actually worked in a heavy business oriented branch and we nearly send 100 online transfers per day minimum and most are business related . I have interacted with plenty of small business who are absolutely love online transfer because it is safe .They don't authorise transfer of goods unless the UTR number is received .In the past they had to completely rely on check which not only is a very delayed payment system but also great risk of fraud .It is also boon to importers/purchasers because the settlement takes place within 15-20 mins and so they can make payment only after the goods arrived at their place . Maybe in rural places it is still viewed in suspicion but sorry in other centres the major reason online transactions are avoided is because to hide black money . Singh bling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Quote RSS labour wing BMS hits out at Modi: 'Note ban has failed completely' http://www.catchnews.com/india-news/rss-labour-wing-bms-hits-out-at-modi-note-ban-has-failed-completely-1481301261.html tweaker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Singh bling said: Bank officials are new target of BJP and RSS propaganda machinery. They are now trying to shift entire blame on them http://hindutva.info/modi-sarkaar-ki-taiyaariyn-to-puri/ When you get support to your views from certain posters who think previous UPA was best government, RBI has no credibility left, and every major nation in world will soon be part of CPEC while India should try to be part of CPEC instead of "actively" opposing it Then, Despite your political/ethical stand, You need to introspect which side yopu are actually standing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rohit S. Ambani Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 (edited) All this talk about cashless economy is nonsense. If I pay 100 bucks for a Biriyani, I want the whole 100 rupees to reach the vendor. If PayTM is gonna get Rs 2 from it, sooner or later the vendor is going to up the price to Rs 102. So it is a big NO from me. I do not want to enrich a new big business in order to make my govt rich. The govt anyway takes more than what it needs. They pocket most of it leaving paltry amounts for welfare and infrastructure. Edited December 12, 2016 by Rohit S. Ambani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Rs 2 is very high. It should go down to around 50 paise. and minimum transaction amount on which charge happens should also be set say Rs 50 or 100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singh bling Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Quote Rs 1.55 crore in new notes seized from businessman in Assam http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/rs-1-55-crore-in-new-notes-seized-from-businessman-in-assam/articleshow/55944848.cms Quote Headed home: workers abandon building sites after cash crackdown http://in.mobile.reuters.com/article/idINKBN14105A These 2 stories are telling who is suffering and who is enjoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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