Muloghonto Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, narenpande1 said: Economics is not your stronger suit it seems..... To have the sort of social security net/ social justice, the bare minimum requirement is for the govt to have tax revenue tools to push Tax/GDP ratio atleast above 25 %, so as to give govt wiggle room to provide the most underprivileged some safety net. Ours is barely over 15 %. NREGA is our attempt in this area, but it is merely 100 days of guaranteed work for the most primitive skilled low paying jobs barely paying above poverty line. At this stage of its industrial cycle towards development where we need TONS of foreign investment - we cannot afford to raise taxes. At a stage of very high industrial development - one can either adopt the path of a welfare state with very high taxes and a very high tax to GDP ratio, so that no one is left behind ( like all the Scandinavian countries) or a mixed state like the UK and Canada, or continue being full on capitalist like USA. India is atleast 50 years away from that level of development. It does not hurt for eminent citizens like Sachin and others from the cine world who have mass following to set examples to the many extremely wealthy sections of society to open their purses and hearts for the unfortunate... What part of 'implement Social security card (Adhar card) and track every account for income tax, is hard to understand ? Register all businesses and you cannot peddle anything without a business license, then tax the business. You don't have to raise taxes, you just need to collect taxes from small businesses which pay no tax. As i said, asking rich people to donate, instead of implementing a more encompassing tax scheme, is ass-backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narenpande1 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: What part of 'implement Social security card (Adhar card) and track every account for income tax, is hard to understand ? Register all businesses and you cannot peddle anything without a business license, then tax the business. You don't have to raise taxes, you just need to collect taxes from small businesses which pay no tax. As i said, asking rich people to donate, instead of implementing a more encompassing tax scheme, is ass-backwards. Collecting tax from each and every small business is not going to move the needle substantially. Even if there is material increment, India needs to make trillions of dollars of investment in infrastructure, primary education and vocational schools to train the upcoming pop entering the workforce. The tax money would mostly be directed there to those investments, and only to a minor extent to dole money. US has a great culture of philanthropy and trust me they are not " ass-backwards" . It is not " ass-backwards" to create awareness and inspiring Philanthropy among those who have been the most privileged. Nobody is asking anybody to give any charity by force, but it is a much desirable character in the Indian society. Edited December 8, 2016 by narenpande1 sarchasm and Rohit S. Ambani 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, narenpande1 said: Collecting tax from each and every small business is not going to move the needle substantially. Even if there is material increment, India needs to make trillions of dollars of investment in infrastructure, primary education and vocational schools to train the upcoming pop entering the workforce. The tax money would mostly be directed there to those investments, and only to a minor extent to dole money. US has a great culture of philanthropy and trust me they are not " ass-backwards" . It is not " ass-backwards" to create awareness and inspiring Philanthropy among those who have been the most privileged. when less than 3% of India(35 million) pays tax and the labor pool is 487 million workers, factoring in 5% unemployment rate from the labor pool and we are left with 425 million people who are not paying taxes. Nominal per capita income in India is 1800 dollars per annum, applying the tax rate for that bracket yields : 425*1800*30/100 = 229.5 billion dollars in taxes. Considering that India collected about 35-40 billion dollars in tax revenue last year, i'd say collecting even half the potential tax revenue is game-changing for India. US is not an example to follow- it is the only developed nation where breaking a foot can leave you penniless. The countries that have strong social programs, such as Canada, Sweden, Germany, etc. does not need philanthropy. Also, a lot of US philanthropy is aimed at the third world, not their own people. Edited December 8, 2016 by Muloghonto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narenpande1 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: when less than 3% of India(35 million) pays tax and the labor pool is 487 million workers, factoring in 5% unemployment rate from the labor pool and we are left with 425 million people who are not paying taxes. Nominal per capita income in India is 1800 dollars per annum, applying the tax rate for that bracket yields : 425*1800*30/100 = 229.5 billion dollars in taxes. Considering that India collected about 35-40 billion dollars in tax revenue last year, i'd say collecting even half the potential tax revenue is game-changing for India. US is not an example to follow- it is the only developed nation where breaking a foot can leave you penniless. The countries that have strong social programs, such as Canada, Sweden, Germany, etc. does not need philanthropy. Also, a lot of US philanthropy is aimed at the third world, not their own people. Then you clearly know nothing about US philanthropy beyond Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. Rohit S. Ambani 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narenpande1 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 7 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: when less than 3% of India(35 million) pays tax and the labor pool is 487 million workers, factoring in 5% unemployment rate from the labor pool and we are left with 425 million people who are not paying taxes. Nominal per capita income in India is 1800 dollars per annum, applying the tax rate for that bracket yields : 425*1800*30/100 = 229.5 billion dollars in taxes. Considering that India collected about 35-40 billion dollars in tax revenue last year, i'd say collecting even half the potential tax revenue is game-changing for India. US is not an example to follow- it is the only developed nation where breaking a foot can leave you penniless. The countries that have strong social programs, such as Canada, Sweden, Germany, etc. does not need philanthropy. Also, a lot of US philanthropy is aimed at the third world, not their own people. Please know your facts ... https://givingusa.org/giving-usa-2015-press-release-giving-usa-americans-donated-an-estimated-358-38-billion-to-charity-in-2014-highest-total-in-reports-60-year-history/ Only 15B out of 353 to international causes. Rohit S. Ambani 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 2 hours ago, narenpande1 said: Then you clearly know nothing about US philanthropy beyond Bill and Melinda Gates foundation.G Great way to ignore the fundamental point of my post - that you are wrong about more inclusive taxation solving major problems in Indian social systems. As i said, if we collected income tax from all, we'd net another 220 billion dollars per annum more. What says you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narenpande1 Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Muloghonto said: Great way to ignore the fundamental point of my post - that you are wrong about more inclusive taxation solving major problems in Indian social systems. As i said, if we collected income tax from all, we'd net another 220 billion dollars per annum more. What says you ? Dude get over it... you were blatantly wrong on facts before mouthing off.. i see you conveniently ignored your ignorant argument that US charities are mostly to 3rd world countries rather than home. US , Internal Revenue Service (IRS ) is the most efficient tax collection org on planet earth.. that does not deter generous donors from taking care of many underprivileged in US. you need to know some basic economics before talking on these matters and also don't mouth of ridiculous facts that are of your own creation. India currently collects only about 280-285 billion dollars. How can that all of a sudden go up by almost 80 % with an additional 220 billion dollars. Are you in your senses ? A nation like India with barely a single city without 3rd world infrastructure must use tax rev from small businesses for dole money rather than infrastructure investment... LOL. you would go to any extent to defend your silly argument it seems.... Edited December 8, 2016 by narenpande1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randomGuy Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) India's tax/GDP ratio is similar to countries like Russia, Mexico - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tax_revenue_as_percentage_of_GDP 1. Within the same Tax/GDP ratio, if we can cut down on leakages and corruption, the benefits will reach the needy. For ex. These days there's talk of universal basic income. if we keep it ten thousand per year and say 40-50 crore people avail it every year, then with 4-5 lac crore per year, 40-50 crore people can avail this. But all other subsides will have to be stopped. Maybe Govt. can study the pros and cons. 2. Salaries for Govt. servants: we want as much %age of people to be employed by the Govt. as possible. This is because of the loss of jobs in private sector due to automation and due to tech. Salaries of Govt. employees should be kept less and they shouldn't be given much increment so that larger %age of people can be employed by the Govt. EDIT: for ex. after 7th pay commission now, my father who is a Govt. servant nearing retirement is supposed to earn 15-18 lacs pa. This is way too much. Govt. should employ 5-6 people instead and pay them say 3 lac pa each. Edited December 8, 2016 by randomGuy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 8 hours ago, Vilander said: Zen there is a country you are living in poll in chit chat --> go vote there. Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 8 hours ago, Muloghonto said: Ofcourse there is grey areas as far as exploitation of land & animals go. As i said, civilization is based on it. So when you stop exploiting land and animals, you go back to being a savage. What I m implying by exploitation is not that difficult to understand. Many of the issues on the table are such that almost everyone understands Even IF there are grey areas, do you think that the likes of Tendulkar cannot identify what areas to focus on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 6 hours ago, narenpande1 said: Dude get over it... you were blatantly wrong on facts before mouthing off.. i see you conveniently ignored your ignorant argument that US charities are mostly to 3rd world countries rather than home. US , Internal Revenue Service (IRS ) is the most efficient tax collection org on planet earth.. that does not deter generous donors from taking care of many underprivileged in US. you need to know some basic economics before talking on these matters and also don't mouth of ridiculous facts that are of your own creation. India currently collects only about 280-285 billion dollars. How can that all of a sudden go up by almost 80 % with an additional 220 billion dollars. Are you in your senses ? A nation like India with barely a single city without 3rd world infrastructure must use tax rev from small businesses for dole money rather than infrastructure investment... LOL. you would go to any extent to defend your silly argument it seems.... i just told you how. Basic math is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laaloo Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) Edited December 16, 2016 by laaloo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 On 12/8/2016 at 5:10 PM, zen said: What I m implying by exploitation is not that difficult to understand. Many of the issues on the table are such that almost everyone understands Even IF there are grey areas, do you think that the likes of Tendulkar cannot identify what areas to focus on? Why do you think the likes of Tendulkar can identify what areas to focus on? Not that he has real time data on deforestation/ extinction of species in the vicinity etc. How is he to prioritize? I genuinely do not understand the point you are trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zen Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 1 hour ago, Mariyam said: Why do you think the likes of Tendulkar can identify what areas to focus on? Not that he has real time data on deforestation/ extinction of species in the vicinity etc. How is he to prioritize? I genuinely do not understand the point you are trying to make. The areas that I want Tendulkar to focus on are already mentioned on this thread Also when it comes to countries such as Ind, there are tons of issues already on the table so the question is more about aligning the area to focus on with your interest than prioritizing Do you need real time data to know, for example, that: a) pollution levels are high. One only has to look at cities such as Delhi b) women and children get exploited (again no need to cite examples) c) etc In short, there is no shortage of issues esp in countries such as Ind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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