Virender sehwag or Younis khan - better over all batsman ?

[Muloghonto]

2 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

in my opening message itself i have clearly stated that i consider Sehwag the better  over all batsman by 2 levels atleast  due to his vast superior    one day record. i gave credit to Sehwag's  murderous str: rate  in tests too.But the record in alien conditions(aus + nzl + saf+ eng+wi) is one which can't be neglected as nothing serious for a batsman from subcontinent. In this regard Younis is convincingly superior to Sehwag. In effect in tests, it is Sehwag's "str: rate + avg:" being an opener vs Younis  lot more consistancy across various countries. So in tests it is slightly Younis for me  because run scoring across various countries is more important.  So your comments like 'joke' etc are over the top.

Younis indeed is a great test batsman that needs to be appreciated. 

As i said, they are much closer to each other in overseas condition than you think. 
Sehwag lost form the last couple of years of his career and it happened to coincide with overseas tours, so his overseas stats suffered. Younis has always been below average overseas, but cashed in this year against a weak Aussie and English attack. So he went from having ordinary overseas stats his whole career to above average in space of 1 season, Sehwag went the entire opposite way.

 

[rtmohanlal]

1 hour ago, Muloghonto said:

As i said, they are much closer to each other in overseas condition than you think. 
Sehwag lost form the last couple of years of his career and it happened to coincide with overseas tours, so his overseas stats suffered. Younis has always been below average overseas, but cashed in this year against a weak Aussie and English attack. So he went from having ordinary overseas stats his whole career to above average in space of 1 season, Sehwag went the entire opposite way.

 

whether  one's  form  went  downward  or upward  in last few years is irrelavent as far as total career stats is concerned.This is because Sehwag  played only 104 tests while Younis has played 116 tests.And we can't say that Younis cashed in on weak attacks. Take the ENG attack.

Younis countered much experienced Broad/Anderson duo   than what Sehwag experienced & yet scored a double 100.Even here in AUS  Starc/Josh avg: 28/25 which is very good indeed. As for Sehwag , i always believe he was a flawed genius partially destroyed by his

arrogant/careless attitude & partially by the Indian team management.At one point Sehwag was destined for ATG status. But that 2008 NZL TOUR was the turning point. When every Tom,Dick & Yuvraj singh were making easy runs in those tests, Sehwag failed dur to his arrogant/careless  attitude of dominating spinners  from the start itself.If he showed even a bit of the application he showed during that ADELAIDE 2008 150* match saving knock, he could easily have scored bucket loads of runs in that NZL tour. Then a partially fit Sehwag was brought in as some sort of mesiiah in the midst of that disastrous 2011 ENG tour by the team management. These hurt his figures badly.

Even after retirement of Ganguly , Sehwag didn't   get the middle order slot he wanted. All were responsible for his form in his last few years.

 

And Younis have been  convincingly better in  5 alien countries with  avg;s of 50+,50+,43+,32+ & 22+. for Sehwag it is  51+,46+,27+,25+,20+. If this is  not convincingly better, then what is?             

 

Edited January 7, 2017 by rtmohanlal
grammer mistake

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, rtmohanlal said:

whether  one's  form  went  downward  or upward  in last few years is irrelavent as far as total career stats is concerned.This is because Sehwag  played only 104 tests while Younis has played 116 tests.And we can't say that Younis cashed in on weak attacks. Take the ENG attack.

Younis countered much experienced Broad/Anderson duo   than what Sehwag experienced & yet scored a double 100.Even here in AUS  Starc/Josh avg: 28/25 which is very good indeed. As for Sehwag , i always believe he was a flawed genius partially destroyed by his

arrogant/careless attitude & partially by the Indian team management.At one point Sehwag was destined for ATG status. But that 2008 NZL TOUR was the turning point. When every Tom,Dick & Yuvraj singh were making easy runs in those tests, Sehwag failed dur to his arrogant/careless  attitude of dominating spinners  from the start itself.If he showed even a bit of the application he showed during that ADELAIDE 2008 150* match saving knock, he could easily have scored bucket loads of runs in that NZL tour. Then a partially fit Sehwag was brought in as some sort of mesiiah in the midst of that disastrous 2011 ENG tour by the team management. These hurt his figures badly.

Even after retirement of Ganguly , Sehwag didn't   get the middle order slot he wanted. All were responsible for his form in his last few years.

 

And Younis have been  convincingly better in  5 alien countries with  avg;s of 50+,50+,43+,32+ & 22+. for Sehwag it is  51+,46+,27+,25+,20+. If this is  not convincingly better, then what is?             

 

I think it matters a huge deal if you have been good throughout your career and had one series near the end ruin your stats versus you've been crap all your career and had one series that boosted your average.

 

Sehwag also had the misfortune of facing atrocious pitches overseas - remember the NZ series where nobody made more than 150 any of the innings - India or New Zealand for all three tests ? Or the England series in 2004/2005 where we all got green tops ? Pakistani batsmen normally face more neutral pitches overseas because the opposition is scared more of their pacers exploiting the same green tops agains their batsmen. India gets a combo of utter flat tracks and total green-tops, hardly ever a balanced pitch.

 

[Sajid_Rana]

Sehwag averages 46 In Aus, 27 in Eng, 20 in NZ and 25 in SA. 

 

Younis 50 in Aus, 50 in Eng, 43 in NZ  and 32 In SA.

 

Younis wipes the floor with Sehwag. 

[Ultimate_Game]

Here's the thing... Sehwag changed the way Test cricket's played at the opening position. Sehwag paved the way for the likes of Warner and has a SR of nearly 80 at an average of nearly 50 as an opener with 2 triple tons  Younis Khan on the other hand is one amongst loads of decent middle order batsmen to have played Test cricket.

 

 doubt anyone will recall YK once he's done playing whereas Sehwag will be mentioned as one of the game-changing openers/players to have ever played the game. Threads like these are an insult to Sehwag just like comparing likes of Akmals & Shehzads with Kohli.

[Muloghonto]

58 minutes ago, Sajid_Rana said:

Sehwag averages 46 In Aus, 27 in Eng, 20 in NZ and 25 in SA. 

 

Younis 50 in Aus, 50 in Eng, 43 in NZ  and 32 In SA.

 

Younis wipes the floor with Sehwag. 

Sehwag is an opening batsman. Openers have lower stats than middle order batsmen. Sehwag also played against much better attacks vs Australia & South Africa and on much worse pitches in NZ. 
Sehwag also had decent overseas stats for most of his career ruined by the last couple of years of his career, Younis has had horrible stats most of his career, boosted due to the last year and half. 

 

Oh and convenient how you left out West Indies.

 

[Stuge]

comparing opener vs middle order batsmen...why why why -_-

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

[rtmohanlal]

19 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

I think it matters a huge deal if you have been good throughout your career and had one series near the end ruin your stats versus you've been crap all your career and had one series that boosted your average.

 

Sehwag also had the misfortune of facing atrocious pitches overseas - remember the NZ series where nobody made more than 150 any of the innings - India or New Zealand for all three tests ? Or the England series in 2004/2005 where we all got green tops ? Pakistani batsmen normally face more neutral pitches overseas because the opposition is scared more of their pacers exploiting the same green tops agains their batsmen. India gets a combo of utter flat tracks and total green-tops, hardly ever a balanced pitch.

 

who said Sehwag was good in those 5 alien countries combined  thru out his career? Even after his first 54 tests itself  he had below 26 avg: in both in SAF & NZL, But i accept that  in the last 2 years he ruined his figures in ENG too which was once 39+ avg: (good for an opener) .AND I agree too little a bit  with the pitches Sehwag dealt with in 2002 NZL TOUR.  So all in all we can accept that Sehwag faced on the avg: slightly better bowling  attacks all thru his career than Younis. But even  after all these adversities Sehwag had to withstand when compared to Younis, i

still stand by my earlier stance that 50+,50+,43+,32+ & 22+  combo is convincingly better than  51+,46+,27+,25+,20+ .But then Sehwag's huge str: rate   neutralise  these some what.Any way Sehwag was atleast 2 levels above Younis as overall batsman.

[BeautifulGame]

who said Sehwag was good in those 5 alien countries combined  thru out his career? Even after his first 54 tests itself  he had below 26 avg: in both in SAF & NZL, But i accept that  in the last 2 years he ruined his figures in ENG too which was once 39+ avg: (good for an opener) .AND I agree too little a bit  with the pitches Sehwag dealt with in 2002 NZL TOUR.  So all in all we can accept that Sehwag faced on the avg: slightly better bowling  attacks all thru his career than Younis. But even  after all these adversities Sehwag had to withstand when compared to Younis, i

still stand by my earlier stance that 50+,50+,43+,32+ & 22+  combo is convincingly better than  51+,46+,27+,25+,20+ .But then Sehwag's huge str: rate   neutralise  these some what.Any way Sehwag was atleast 2 levels above Younis as overall batsman.

Regardless of the gulf between Sehwag and Younis ,another factor is you just compare and evaluate an opener with a no.4 in these conditions when both actually face different scenarios.

Openers will always have poorer numbers because they are always exposed to new ball .

There is a reason why not a single opener apart from Gavaskar were able to score 10k runs in test cricket till Cook achieved it recently

Even Cook , arguably the best opener in recent years averages 45 in England (at home) , 35 in NZL and 31 in SA.Heck Greame Smith, South Africa's greatest opener averages on 41 his home conditions .

[express bowling]

In an era before T20s were invented, Sehwag changed the concept of test match batting, especially as an opener.  He made people believe that it is possible to be a very high SR  batsman in test matches and still average around 50.   ( finished with a test average of 49.3 and SR of 82  ....  wow )

 

Test cricket is ultimately about winning matches and series.   Sehwag was one of the biggest match-winners among test batsmen and his quick scoring set up test matches for his team and gave our bowlers sufficient time to bowl the  opposition out.  This might not seem so important nowadays but in an era when batsmen knew how to hang on and save test matches, that extra time was often important.

 

On his day, which came often,  he took the match away from the opposition, before they knew what hit them. He was a match winner per excellence, especially in test matches in Asia.

 

He also had the ability to score 200s and 300s at his customary high SR. ( Two 300+, two more 250+, 2 more 200+ and many more 150+ )

 

There is also the issue of entertainment factor....the ultimate reason for which fans watch sports.....and Sehwag was the epitome of that.

 

Younis Khan is a good batsman.....quite a few batters like him have graced the cricket field in the past and quite a few others will do so in the future.  But, there were no Sehwags in the past and I doubt there will be many more Sehwags in the future....batters who could learn how to play like the T20 era batters without growing up playing T20s...and still bat at an average of 50 in tests.  ( It is like a modern day test batsman batting at a SR of 120+ and still averaging 50 )

Edited January 8, 2017 by express bowling

[rtmohanlal]

4 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Regardless of the gulf between Sehwag and Younis ,another factor is you just compare and evaluate an opener with a no.4 in these conditions when both actually face different scenarios.

Openers will always have poorer numbers because they are always exposed to new ball .

There is a reason why not a single opener apart from Gavaskar were able to score 10k runs in test cricket till Cook achieved it recently

Even Cook , arguably the best opener in recent years averages 45 in England (at home) , 35 in NZL and 31 in SA.Heck Greame Smith, South Africa's greatest opener averages on 41 his home conditions .

That is why i already said that i am evaluating  Sehwag:s avg: of 49.4  at around 51.25-51.5  when comparing to a middle order bat like Younis.Also you are speaking as if there were  several middle order bats with 10000+ runs before SG reached that milestone.And also must not forget that there can be openers with much balanced avg:s in various countries when compared to Sehwag.I just hope so. If that is not the case then i am happily ready to place Sehwag even more higher  because of him being an Indian.  

[BeautifulGame]

That is why i already said that i am evaluating  Sehwag:s avg: of 49.4  at around 51.25-51.5  when comparing to a middle order bat like Younis.Also you are speaking as if there were  several middle order bats with 10000+ runs before SG reached that milestone.And also must not forget that there can be openers with much balanced avg:s in various countries when compared to Sehwag.I just hope so. If that is not the case then i am happily ready to place Sehwag even more higher  because of him being an Indian.  

There should not be relation considering u are comparing him with Younis.If u actually want to compare Sehwag with Younis on overseas ,then the methodology should be how Sehwag compare with openers and then similarly take Younis performance and compare with other rmiddle order bats and then evaluate who has better stats when compared with his peers.

That's why just posting both their stats randomly and suggesting to compare is flawed.Either way I don't really care about these stats .For me personally I have watched both Sehwag and Younis to know who is better.Viru is a genius and one of a kind and Younis a great batsman but a level below.

[rtmohanlal]

55 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

There should not be relation considering u are comparing him with Younis.If u actually want to compare Sehwag with Younis on overseas ,then the methodology should be how Sehwag compare with openers and then similarly take Younis performance and compare with other rmiddle order bats and then evaluate who has better stats when compared with his peers.

That's why just posting both their stats randomly and suggesting to compare is flawed.Either way I don't really care about these stats .For me personally I have watched both Sehwag and Younis to know who is better.Viru is a genius and one of a kind and Younis a great batsman but a level below.

i too have watched & followed  Sehwag's career right from the word  go. Yes... i  agree on one thing though... it is true l that  Sehwag's

49.34 avg: needs to be evaluated from the view point of him being an opener. Since opening is much more difficult  task, his avg: has  lot more value than its real numerical value.    naturally  if we reevaluate it at say around 51.5 these individual avg:s too proportionately increases.

But 1 thing for sure... openers like SG,Smith,Boon, Cook,Boycott  etc have more balanced avg:es in various countries than Sehwag. But Sehwag

towers over them in the matter of 'str: rates'  &  'huge scores at massive str: rates'. To be frank really difficult to compare  these  2 different criteria & find out which one is better.Any way Sehwag  atleast 2 levels avove Younis is for sure.   

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Sehwag

[mishra]

In England

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRsy_fMaDoY

[Jimmy Cliff]

18 minutes ago, mishra said:

In England

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRsy_fMaDoY

Funniest leaves since Courtney Walsh in Barbados 1999.

[mishra]

8 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

Funniest leaves since Courtney Walsh in Barbados 1999.

Exactly. Sehwag can never do that