No Office bearers to represent BCCI at ICC, ICC may pass radical TV rights pooling and distribution rule, India Cricket may be left in financial tatters

[BeautifulGame]

Just now, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Home series tv rights.Who told you that our overseas rights are miniscule?Our overseas tv rights are the most valuable overseas tv rights because of the huge Indian diaspora.

Have to admire your straw clutching lol

 

This is about away series test rights.

 

Based on that logic we will gain hugely with deal because will have share of the revenue that countries generate by selling rights of Indian domestic market(their away rights).

 

[BeautifulGame]

5 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

BCCI separately sells its overseas tv rights.Our Overseas rights are very valuable because of our huge diaspora.

As i said you know cookies.

And we will get revenue from Indian market with this deal.

 

You definitely know your cookies or whatever lol

[G_B_]

Depends to be seen what % we get. You have to keep in mind india is poised to become a 3 to 3.5 trillion economy in period concerned. So any gains need to be seen from that reference point

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[BeautifulGame]

Just now, G_B_ said:

Depends to be seen what % we get. You have to keep in mind india is poised to become a 3 to 3.5 trillion economy in period concerned.

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And that market wont be touched though. Infact with this deal we will even get a share of the revenue generated by boards selling Indian tour rights which is often massive as it is targeted at Indian domestic market.So the possibility is that our revenue is likely to increas depending on the share agreed.

 

Its also good for Indian fans because we wont miss out on any international cricket.Currently Newzealand home mathces arent broadcasted because they arent lucarative. Soon the likes of West Indies will miss out because of their time zone.Thats probably one of the major reasons driving smaller boards into this deal.Now if this is carried on fans wont miss out on any overseas cricket

 

The only logical reason I can think of for us not signing this deal is because usually the Indian tours give us a bargaining chip to threaten boards (as most are dependent on Indian tour rights to generate revenue) which will be significantly reduced.Like we did with tha SA tour in 2014.

 

Twisting this as somehow leaving Indian cricket in financial tatters as the OP article suggests is utter pile of garbage.

[G_B_]

And I also fail to see how cricket fans should be happy.

Pooled rights or collective bargaining will mean broadcasters pay more which means fans pay more.

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[BeautifulGame]

6 minutes ago, G_B_ said:

And I also fail to see how cricket fans should be happy.

Pooled rights or collective bargaining will mean broadcasters pay more which means fans pay more.

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Not in India though.Here the prices are pretty moderate even for HDs.But we wont miss out on any cricket.

[Trichromatic]

3 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

BCCI separately sells its overseas tv rights.Our Overseas rights are very valuable because of our huge diaspora.

As i said you know cookies.

BCCI doesn't sell overseas TV rights separately. BCCI sold all media rights to Star which in turn sells it to other broadcasters. 

 

 

[mishra]

3 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Home series tv rights.Who told you that our overseas rights are miniscule?Our overseas tv rights are the most valuable overseas tv rights because of the huge Indian diaspora.

Most people overseas watch Indian matches. Stadiums are full of blue jerseys if India is playing.

Home or away. BCCI should try to make as much money as it can for Indian Cricket. Apart from Ashes or world cup who watches Cricket if India is not playing

[Malcolm Merlyn]

BCCI doesn't sell overseas TV rights separately. BCCI sold all media rights to Star which in turn sells it to other broadcasters. 

 

 

Incorrect.BCCI sold only domestic tv rights to STAR.Overseas sold separately.Infact BCCI now produces its own telecast and sells the feed to various broadcasters overseas.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Not in India though.Here the prices are pretty moderate even for HDs.But we wont miss out on any cricket.

Overseas Tv rights.How does Indian prices matter?

Someone like@g_b_ will have to pay more as his broadcaster would have had to buy all rubbish Pakistani lankan other overseas right as well as Indian.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Have to admire your straw clutching lol

 

This is about away series test rights.

 

Based on that logic we will gain hugely with deal because will have share of the revenue that countries generate by selling rights of Indian domestic market(their away rights).

 

Learn a bit of calculation.The overseas rights of other boards for India become valuable when India tours them.Rest how valuable are rights of Pakistani,Lankan,BD,West Indian,NZ rights?

The English rights followed by Aus and SA do have some value due to series like Ashes or high voltage series like Aus vs SA etc.

So at the most for a 5 year cycle India will tour these countries for max of 1 tour.Add the Ashes and other marquee series.we get 10-12 series at max.India will play higher number of series at home during that time.So revenue of India overseas rights are much more.

Not to forget that PCB will make millions out of this.Sorry dont want even a penny to flow from India to PCB.

[mishra]

^home or just Away! Bottom line is Taking decision making from individual  boards about tv rights only stengthens ICC and India is biggest looser

[Trichromatic]

4 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

 The home board sells rights - either home and away or both - to a particular broadcaster and then leaves it to that broadcaster to on-sell the rights for overseas markets to other broadcasters. 

 

Our away rights currently is selling England rights to Sky or South African rights to Supersport.What significant revenue is that lol

 

4 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Home series tv rights.Who told you that our overseas rights are miniscule?Our overseas tv rights are the most valuable overseas tv rights because of the huge Indian diaspora.

 

4 hours ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Home series tv rights.Who told you that our overseas rights are miniscule?Our overseas tv rights are the most valuable overseas tv rights because of the huge Indian diaspora.

Few points:

 

1. This proposal will be effective from the time when current contract with broadcasters expire. For BCCI this will be in 2018, more than 25 months from now. BCCI has already sold media rights (home and overseas media rights) to Star for a period of 6 years. Till then nothing will change.

 

2. Boards will continue to get full money for TV rights in domestic markets which means BCCI will not lose out any penny on selling TV rights to channels for Indian market.

 

3. BCCI will have put the TV rights in overseas markets in the pool. 

 

4. Total income of BCCI was 1365 crores in 2015-16. 

 

5. If the these proposals were effective from today, more than 700 crores would not be even remote danger because those are not related to media rights of international matches.

 

6. Out of remaining 650 crores which constitutes media rights of our  international matches are sold together to one broadcaster.

 

7. Going by previous valuations (although these are decade old values), media rights for overseas markets constituted about 20% revenue that too when sold at inflated rate by one broadcaster to other. 

 

8. If BCCI gets same value then value media rights for domestic markets would be more than 500 crores.

 

9. Out of 1365, approx 1250 crores would have been safe even if these proposals were implemented last year.

 

10. If these proposals were to be effective today, 110-120 crores would have to be pooled and BCCI would get some share from that revenue. 

 

Now it has to be seen what % of money could BCCI get from those overseas TV rights. Even if it is 50% or 30%, BCCI would still be maintaining 1300+ crores of revenue with a loss of 3-4%. 

 

I don't know board can be in financial tatters because of that as claimed by article in OP.

 

10 minutes ago, mishra said:

^home or just Away! Bottom line is Taking decision making from individual  boards about tv rights only stengthens ICC and India is biggest looser

 

Amount earned by BCCI just from the interest is itself way more than the loss (if any) by BCCI if such proposal is passed. 

 

40 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Incorrect.BCCI sold only domestic tv rights to STAR.Overseas sold separately.Infact BCCI now produces its own telecast and sells the feed to various broadcasters overseas.

 

If that's the case then the loss could be even lower than what I estimated above. Maybe 0.5-2% max. Still not enough to put a board in financial tatters. We will have wait 2018 to see the impact though.

 

 

 

[Malcolm Merlyn]

 

If that's the case then the loss could be even lower than what I estimated above. Maybe 1-2% max. Still not enough to put a board in financial tatters.

 

 

 

Total income for 2015-16 was 1365 rupees.Please tell me how many home matches did India played during that period as Tv rights are sold on per match basis.

So picking up random years for calculation doesnt work.

[Trichromatic]

20 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

 

 

Total income for 2015-16 was 1365 rupees.Please tell me how many home matches did India played during that period as Tv rights are sold on per match basis.

So picking up random years for calculation doesnt work.

I have already posted break up above. 

 

Out of 1365, 700+ would be unaffected.

 

650 from media rights.

 

Those are not random numbers, but actual data posted by BCCI.

 

 

Now I am not sure what's the share of domestic media rights and overseas media rights. I checked 2006 data and it was in approx 4:1 ratio. 

 

Unless the value of Indian cricket has fallen in domestic market, applying same distribution would BCCI 500+ for domestic rights and 100-150 would be value of overseas rights. 

 

Although more actual data would give better idea. For now, I guess 7-8% of total revenue comes from overseas media rights.

 

What % of those 100-150 crores (7-8%) of total revenue is BCCI expected to lose after this proposal comes in effect?

[Malcolm Merlyn]

I have already posted break up above. 

 

Out of 1365, 700+ would be unaffected.

 

650 from media rights.

 

Those are not random numbers, but actual data posted by BCCI.

 

Now I am not sure what's the share of overseas media rights and domestic media rights. I checked 2006 data and it was was in approx 4:1 ratio. 

 

Unless the value of Indian cricket has fallen in domestic market, applying same distribution would BCCI 500+ for domestic rights and 100-150 would be value of overseas rights.

 

Although more actual data would give better idea. For now, I guess 7-8% of total revenue comes from overseas media rights.

 

What % of those 100-150 crores (7-8%) of total revenue is BCCI expected to lose after this proposal comes in effect?

You didnot get it.The basis of payment for tv rights in India is per match basis.So if we play more matches in a year we get more money.

Can you post this link where it says that the overseas rights value is only 7 to 8% of the total rights value?

[Trichromatic]

27 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

You didnot get it.The basis of payment for tv rights in India is per match basis.So if we play more matches in a year we get more money.

Can you post this link where it says that the overseas rights value is only 7 to 8% of the total rights value?

 

And I have not said that overseas rights are only 7-8% of total rights value. I said that it could be 7-8% of total revenue 

 

 

Domestic and overseas rights constituted about 47% of total revenue. 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

Out of this 47%, I don't know what portion was from domestic rights and overseas rights.

 

Could it be 50-50 meaning value of Indian market be same as overseas markets? I don't know. If someone can tell me that it will be helpful.

 

Previously it was around 80-20 meaning 80% (or more) of media rights from domestic market and 20% (or less) from overseas.

 

For ex in 2006, for a period 2006-2010

 

Quote

At $612 million, Nimbus had put in the highest bid to walk away with the media rights for a period of four years from 1 March 2006 to 31 March 2010. Nimbus had quoted $504.09 million for India territory rights and $108.09 million for international rights. 

Nimbus quoted 83% for domestic rights have, 17% for overseas rights. Unless cricket has suddenly become very unpopular in India and Indian diaspora has outnumbered Indian population, I doubt that there would be huge changes in this share.

 

If it is same then it would mean 7-8 % (17% of 47%) of total revenue was from overseas rights even if we take a higher estimate for it.

 

[Malcolm Merlyn]

No I don't have any link. I have already mentioned it is my assumption based on how BCCI sold rights previously.

 

And I have not said that overseas rights are only 7-8% of total rights value. I said that it could be 7-8% of total revenue 

 

 

Domestic and overseas rights constituted about 47% of total revenue. 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

Out of this 47%, I don't know what portion was from domestic rights and overseas rights.

 

Could it be 50-50 meaning value of Indian market be same as overseas markets? 67-33 meaning overseas market value is almost half of Indian market value? I don't know. If someone can tell me that it will be helpful.

 

Previously it was around 80-20 meaning 80% (or more) of media rights from domestic market and 20% (or less) from overseas. If it is same then it would mean 9% of total revenue was from overseas rights even if we take a higher estimate for it.

Again.You are making a mistake.The revenue from Tv rights depend on number of matches played.We played how many home matches in 2015-16 and how many in 2016-17?

The value of overseas rights as percentage of revenue increases from 2006 because of the value now assigned to digital and mobile rights.

Can you post the link from the 2006 article which you are using as base for assumption?

[G_B_]

3 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

Not in India though.Here the prices are pretty moderate even for HDs.But we wont miss out on any cricket.

is this goes through my bills are certainly going to rise.... The issue is not also about prices being moderate. % change increase means they will rise.

 

 

[Trichromatic]

47 minutes ago, Malcolm Merlyn said:

Again.You are making a mistake.The revenue from Tv rights depend on number of matches played.We played how many home matches in 2015-16 and how many in 2016-17?

The value of overseas rights as percentage of revenue increases from 2006 because of the value now assigned to digital and mobile rights.

Can you post the link from the 2006 article which you are using as base for assumption?

Updated the post and those are absolute numbers. Even with overseas rights being 25% of domestic rights assumption (which is unlikely) total contribution to BCCI revenue is 10%.

 

A fall in that 10% won't leave BCCI in financial tatters as the article in OP claimed.

 

On a side note: BCCI lost more money due to some of the practices by BCCI officials. Simple example - Lalit Modi didn't include strategic timeouts clause in overseas media right  and BCCI lost money there. Corruption and scams by BCCI babus has done more such financial damages to BCCI in past.