sandeep Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/13/chinese-authorities-collecting-dna-residents-xinjiang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 China knows how to deal with a problem. Respect. sandeep and speedheat 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 China knows how to deal with a problem. Respect. It’s easy when you’re not a Democracy and a super power...No big deal... velu and Turning_track 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, asterix said: It’s easy when you’re not a Democracy and a super power... No big deal... True but that's the path they have chosen and they have made great sacrifices to become a superpower. We were in a similar place as them in 1947 but chose the wrong path and continue to huff and puff on our way to mediocrity. sarcastic 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, Gollum said: True but that's the path they have chosen and they have made great sacrifices to become a superpower. We were in a similar place as them in 1947 but chose the wrong path and continue to huff and puff on our way to mediocrity. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 padosis are encouraging this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 18 minutes ago, surajmal said: No. Similar per capita GDP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, Gollum said: Similar per capita GDP. Fixing economy is the easiest part when you have the advantage of cheap labour (see how quickly tribal backwaters such as malaysia,thailand got to middle income levels or there abouts). India got jobbed hard by double bout of colonialism spanning 8 centuries. People have trouble spelling out the horrors that were perpetrated during that period even 70 years after independence. Alleviating, diagnosing the consequences... who the hell knows when that will happen. Although, I agree, Indian economy should still be atleast 5 times larger than it is. I mean if the chinese can do it, anyone can. sandeep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 @surajmal Wish we had a one child policy like China, this population of ours is a burden. We are going to be water scarce in a decade or so . China under Mao and Deng Xiaoping took some tough decisions which caused short term pain but ensured great returns 2 generations forward while our leaders pussyfooted all the time. Even though I dislike China they have my grudging respect, they are centuries ahead of us in every front. There will never be another China. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Gollum said: @surajmal Wish we had a one child policy like China, this population of ours is a burden. We are going to be water scarce in a decade or so . China under Mao and Deng Xiaoping took some tough decisions which caused short term pain but ensured great returns 2 generations forward while our leaders pussyfooted all the time. Even though I dislike China they have my grudging respect, they are centuries ahead of us in every front. There will never be another China. Chinese are ~10 yrs ahead in GDP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Just now, surajmal said: Chinese are ~10 yrs ahead in GDP. But the gap isn't closing anytime soon. If both the countries maintain their present growth rates it will take India 127 years to equal China. But the more we develop, the more difficult it will be to maintain a high GDP. We are never coming close to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, Gollum said: But the gap isn't closing anytime soon. If both the countries maintain their present growth rates it will take India 127 years to equal China. But the more we develop, the more difficult it will be to maintain a high GDP. We are never coming close to them. Thats not how economies grow. otherwise US which was 50% of the world's GDP in 1945, wouldn't be down to 20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dial_100 Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 Exactly their economy will eventually hit a plateau. But unless we make continuous reforms and make rest of our population productive, it looks unlikely. Skill development is one way. We should be producing some low cost consumer goods for ourselves by using unskilled/semi skill labors. On the other hand, we will need some serious investment in innovation, research, start-ups. We should stop copying and start producing our own stuff, be it consumer goods, electronics, or latest military technology. Even if we remain in top 3, it is alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 20 hours ago, Gollum said: @surajmal Wish we had a one child policy like China, this population of ours is a burden. We are going to be water scarce in a decade or so . China under Mao and Deng Xiaoping took some tough decisions which caused short term pain but ensured great returns 2 generations forward while our leaders pussyfooted all the time. Even though I dislike China they have my grudging respect, they are centuries ahead of us in every front. There will never be another China. Dude you have no idea what you are talking about. Mao's decision led to millions of chinese dying, and resulted in zero "long term gains". Go educate yourself on the "great leap forward", before spouting nonsense. The biggest thing that worked out in favor of the Chinese, is the decision to prioritize economic growth, manufacturing etc in the lat 1970s, while India was busy banishing Coca cola from India. Nothing wrong with banning coca-cola, but our leaders only spouted "swadeshi' and nationalistic rhetoric, didn't work towards economic and industrial growth. The 20 year head-start that China had over India, is now very difficult to catch up on. Even today, Modi likes to make grand announcements and cut ribbons, but where are the hard yards being done for "Make in India"? Banjo even in "his" Gujarat, the Dholera SEZ is moving at a turtle's pace. All the approvals are done, land is acquired, but what work has been done? Indians have tendency to talk big, but fail to deliver when it comes to rolling up the sleeves and following through on the details. As much as I have a distaste for Modi's politics and rhetoric, I thought at least there would be some decent forward progress on the economy. But so far, I'm not impressed. We have been lucky that oil prices have been low, and he has done a few good things, but nearly not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 (edited) @sandeep Mao was an effing legend. While it is true that economic reforms came under Deng Xiaoping, Mao's contribution is no less in making what China is today. Only economics doesn't make a nation, there are several factors which you have to consider. Even for economic growth there are many ingredients you need, you can't think about improving that front in isolation. China's literacy was comparable to India's in 1950 but by the time of Mao's death their literacy was 97%, according to 2011 census India's literacy was 74%.....whether we will ever reach 97% literacy in my lifetime I very much doubt !!!! Besides the standard of Chinese education (and hence innovation) went to another level under Mao's reign. Today we have so many Chinese universities among the world's best, China has so much innovation/hi tech and their record in Maths/Science Olympiads is out of the world. An average Chinese student is so much more proficient in language, maths and science than our students that it is blasphemous to even compare. Mao built the People's Army and made it one of the most well disciplined, efficient fighting units of his time. In the Korean War in 1950-53 the real strength of his army came to the forefront, I presume you are an Indian American so you will do well to remember your country's humiliating retreat back then. Military security is as important as economy and China owes a lot to Mao in that regard as well. Who spearheaded PRC's military weapons program and thus got them a permanent place in UNSC? While you talk about China's opening up of their economy 20 years before India and market reforms (under Xiapoing) you mustn't forget that it was under Mao that China dissociated itself from the Eastern Bloc (USSR was a fellow communist country and a superpower) and restored diplomatic relations with USA and the West.... a ballsy decision considering the influence Brezhnev had in Asia. I can't write a long post now because I am cramped for time but you reading of Mao is incorrect. And nah my post wasn't 'nonsense' as you so eloquently put. Chinese people have made sacrifices to reach the level they are today and Mao and Deng Xiaoping are the 2 main pillars behind their rise as a potential superpower today. It isn't nonsense to proclaim that our leaders have by and large been indecisive and cowardly with wrong priorities and poor policy making. That we are still following labour laws/codes written in the 1930s and 40s is a small illustration of our legislature/executive and how poorly we have fared compared to our northern neighbour. The gap will continue to widen, we will overtake China's population in another 5 years time and will continue to remain the largest populated country in the entire history of humanity, probably till eternity (unless there is a mass extinction before that). Our GDP growth rate is presently below China (that too after having a GDP 20% as big as theirs), their forex reserves are never going to be equaled etc etc........ Mao dwarves every single leader we have produced in our modern history in spite of all his faults (some no doubt exaggerated by the West). Without Mao China would have been another failed, poverty stricken, illiterate, disunited cesspit like India. Modi has been underwhelming I agree, but there is no magic wand to fix the system. There are so many problems in India that it is almost impossible to get us back on the right track. But if it were up to me the most important thing we need to work on right now is education. But our hero has surpassed even UPA on this front, budget allocation for education is lesser than at any point under UPA government. How will acche din come when you keep your population uneducated and starve your centres of higher learning of funds? Edited December 14, 2017 by Gollum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted December 14, 2017 Author Share Posted December 14, 2017 @Gollumyou know what the Chinese endured during Mao's "great leap forward"? You wrote a whole essay filled with half-truths and opinions, but ducked that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 11 minutes ago, sandeep said: @Gollumyou know what the Chinese endured during Mao's "great leap forward"? You wrote a whole essay filled with half-truths and opinions, but ducked that question. I never claimed Mao was perfect. His economic reforms were unsuccessful and he was a tyrant (answer to your question), but that alone doesn't define him. If he were such a lulloo, China would have been a perennial under performer. Why do you think all the major powers of the world courted Mao and wanted a slice of Communist China those days, considering the fact that they were our equals in 1947? Why did all countries take Mao's China seriously and not us at a time when both our economies were closed? Obviously something must have attracted them in China which made them place their bets on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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