India's squad for South Africa tour- some thoughts

[Muloghonto]

1. IMO, we should bat Sehwag in the middle order: he can still be brutally effective against the older ball and its patently unfair to ask him to succeed against Steyn,Morkel & Philander while opening when its a tall ask for most specialist openers. Sehwag has been a spectacular success story, as the most successful opener in history of cricket who isn't a specialist opener by trade but he is in the wrong side of 30s and needs to bat lower down the order. Just like how VVS was a failure as an opener but one of our best middle order bats ever, the same can be the case for Sehwag from now on. 2. There is place for Wasim Jaffer in the test team. He is 35 and he won't last very long, but IMO given his form over the last few years in domestic cricket, his experience and his correct technique, he can be the guy who fills in the opener's slot for another two years or so, till guys like Jiwanjot & Unmukt Chand get more experience and become 'test ready'. 3. The backup opener should be Dhawan. he is currently, atleast in my books, third in the list for competing opening slots, after Gambhir and Jaffer. 4. If Tendy retires, his slot must come down to Rayudu or Rahane. I would rather see Rayudu debut, because he has tons of experience, excellent footwork & a pretty good technique. Rahane comes with the same, but I feel that Rayudu's time is now. 5. It'd be madness to play Dhoni at #6 in South Africa- because this means Sehwag is either dropped or consigned to be useless opening against the best new-ball attack in the world, while making our batting order a whole lot more brittle. 6. Between Jadeja and Ashwin, i'd say Ashwin is ahead for the slot- he is a bona-fide wicket-taking bowler who has a simple but sounder technique for a lower order role. 7. We should not be dismayed by the lack of pace and effectiveness of Bhuvi in these series, for the pitches of South Africa, England and New Zealand are tailor-made for Bhuvi type bowlers. His banana-swingers at 125kph will be effective in South Africa. 8. In South Africa, we should not field both Ishant and Umesh. They are similar type bowlers- both who bang the ball in and look to hit the deck & move it marginally. As such, i think two of these bowlers will be counterproductive in South Africa, particularly when neither of these two are exemplary in their control- they are not McGrath & Ambroses, they are, more in league with the Steve Harmison type. While Umesh may develop into someone with more control, i dont think Ishant is going to become significantly more consistent. As such, Umesh bowls with more chutzpah than Ishant- he is less bothered by being hit around the park and bowls a more stumps-attacking line, so he is likelier to pick up wickets. 9. Zaheer still has a spot in the team, especially due to his old ball skills. He still is, by a fair margin, the best old ball bowler amongst Indian pacers and we'd need him in South Africa, if he is fit. 10. Bowlers like Pankaj Singh and Ishwar Pandey have good opportunity in South Africa- their pitches are ideal (after the Kiwi pitches) for line and length bowlers who can move the ball but cannot bowl more than 130kph (average speed). Shami is a bit faster than them, but Shami is also less accurate and moves the ball less than them. While Indians are enamoured by pace, none of the Indian pacers with the exception of Umesh and Varun provide pace to trouble the Saffies. In such a scenario, going with bowlers who can be consistent with their line and length will yeild more dividends in South Africa than a bowler who is all over the place but 5kph faster. 11. The backup wicket keeper in South Africa should be Uday Kaul. He is a lesser wicket keeper standing up IMO than Parthiv Patel or Gautam but he is competent to keep to pacers and since South Africa is not the place where stand-up wicket keepers are going to be important, Uday should be the backup due to his proficient batting capabilities and keeping to arguably the 'best pace attack' in domestic cricket. 12. We should not hesitate in playing two spinners on a pitch that is not a pacer's paradise, such as the 2nd test between South Africa and Pakistan. As such, this is what my 'ideal' starting lineup for South Africa would be: Gambhir Jaffer Pujara Tendulkar/Rayudu Kohli Sehwag Dhoni Ashwin Bhuvi Zaheer Umesh Reserves: Dhawan (opener) Kaul (keeper) Ojha (spinner) Ishant ( pacer) Pankaj Singh/Ishwar Pandey (pacer) if we go for 16-man squad, both if we go for 17 man squad. If we go for 18 man squad, Rahane gets the 2nd batsman's slot in the reserve list if Tendy retires, or else it should go to Rayudu

[Vivek.S.123]

1. Virender Sehwag 2. Shikhar Dhawan 3. Cheteshwar Pujara 4. Ajinkya Rahane 5. Virat Kohli 6. Manoj Tiwary 7. MS Dhoni 8. Ravichandran Ashwin 9. Zaheer Khan 10. Umesh Yadav 11. Varun Aaron 12. Bhuvneshwar Kumar 13. Shami Ahmed 14. Pragyan Ojha 15. Wriddhiman Saha 16. Abhinav Mukund 17. Ambati Rayudu

[maniac]

Looks like Sreeshanth is putting the hard yards in domestics (Fingers Crossed)....We need one experienced bowler and since it looks like Zak has passed it wont be a bad idea to somehow sneak sree in the squad.

[rkt.india]

Looks like Sreeshanth is putting the hard yards in domestics (Fingers Crossed)....We need one experienced bowler and since it looks like Zak has passed it wont be a bad idea to somehow sneak sree in the squad.

hard yards? either he is again injured or is dropped from the XI by Kerala team. He is crap as Ishant, IMO. Edit: Sreesanth is facing a two match ban and will be back for the semifinals

[ShebbySB]

My team of 17 will look like this:- Gambhir Sehwag Jaffer Pujara Sachin(He won't retire anytime soon after his knock in Chennai) Kohli Rayudu Rahane Dhoni Saha Ashwin Ojha Umesh Shami Bhuvi Aaron/Pandey Irfan(If we ever play 5 bowlers). We don't need a 3rd spinner in SA so Jadeja & Harbhajan are unlikely to be part of the squad & less said about Ishant is better.Gautam or Uday Kaul can replace Saha if they continue their good run.Zaheer has served his country well but his time has come.We should look beyond him.Guys like Pankaj,Awana, Dinda,Warrier can also get a look in if they're in good form & given that fitness of our pace bowlers is brittle.End of the day we'll lose the series as we know that they're too strong for us atm.

[Lord]

my thought-lets win this series first

[Muloghonto]

Zaheer still has a lot to offer to India, for the next 2-3 years if he can stay fit. IMO, he is quite easily the best old ball bowler in the country and the only one in our lineup that is going to be a genuine threat to the Saffies after the ball is 30 overs old. Besides, IMO Zaheer still offers more to the team than Ishant does alongside Yadav.

[ShebbySB]

Zaheer still has a lot to offer to India, for the next 2-3 years if he can stay fit. IMO, he is quite easily the best old ball bowler in the country and the only one in our lineup that is going to be a genuine threat to the Saffies after the ball is 30 overs old. Besides, IMO Zaheer still offers more to the team than Ishant does alongside Yadav.

Only when he can last a whole series without breaking down.I won't bet on that.

[rkt.india]

Zaheer still has a lot to offer to India, for the next 2-3 years if he can stay fit. IMO, he is quite easily the best old ball bowler in the country and the only one in our lineup that is going to be a genuine threat to the Saffies after the ball is 30 overs old. Besides, IMO Zaheer still offers more to the team than Ishant does alongside Yadav.

Zaheer has past it. He could not do much against England with old or new ball, either against NZ. Though in conditions like SA, he can still be handy but he will last even a test match is doubtful now. Best Indian fast bowler right now is Umesh Yadav in test cricket and you assessment about him is wrong. he is not a hit the deck bowler like Ishant. He is a swing bowler who can bowl amazing outswingers. His bowling against WI in ODI series at home was brilliant where he was swinging the ball away from the batsman. If you saw his bowling in CLT20 played in SA, you would realize what potential this guy has.

[Muloghonto]

Zaheer has past it. He could not do much against England with old or new ball' date=' either against NZ. [/quote'] In both those series, nobody but Aaron or Umesh had the speed to trouble English or Kiwi batsmen. Performance of Zaheer in India is not a good argument towards his effectiveness in South Africa. Zaheer's fitness is suspect and as such, he may not last an entire series anymore but he should be picked for the matches he is fit for. As i said, when he is fit (and i am sure even Zaheer can manage to be fit for a match here or there) he is the best old ball bowler in India. Without Zaheer we would not be able to take much wickets between 30-80 overs, except what gets gifted to our spinners. He is a hit the deck bowler who bowls a fuller length and attacks the stumps more. But Umesh is not a swinger of the ball, in helpful conditions he seams the ball around. Swing bowlers are more in the mould of Bhuvi, Steyn, Finn, Anderson, Zaheer, etc. Umesh is more in the mould of a Pollock/McGrath type but bowls a fuller length. He was seaming the ball away from the batsmen, not really swinging it. Umesh has very little swing in his deliveries, which is mostly apparent prior to pitching. Though i agree he has quite a lot of potential, IMO he is a superior version of the bowler Ishant is. As such, my point was, due to their similar styles of bowling (the length preference notwithstanding), Umesh+ Bhuvi (for eg) offers more in SA than Umesh+ Ishant.

[rkt.india]

He is a hit the deck bowler who bowls a fuller length and attacks the stumps more. But Umesh is not a swinger of the ball, in helpful conditions he seams the ball around. Swing bowlers are more in the mould of Bhuvi, Steyn, Finn, Anderson, Zaheer, etc. Umesh is more in the mould of a Pollock/McGrath type but bowls a fuller length. .

Your assessment is wrong about him. He is pretty much in the mold of Steyn. His release, his seam position and the way he moves the ball away is very much reminiscent of Steyn. He just needs to be more consistent. Regarding hitting the deck, the bowler who has pace can always hit the deck hard and even Steyn does that. Is Finn a swing bowler for you? According to you assessment even Zaheer is not a swing bowler then. Regarding Ishant, he should not even be in the team. Anyway, it does not matter of he is a swing bowler or seam bowler. In SA, you need accurate bowling with good seam position, the test pitch will do for the bowler.

[bharat297]

I think it's time to look past Sehwag. I don't think there's much use putting him in the middle order. I don't think you will see a dramatic improvement in his performance. The simple fact is that his reaction time and hand-eye coordination is getting worse. I think for South Africa the emphasis has to be on technique. At this stage, my squad for the South Africa series would be as follows: Rayadu / Chand Jiwanjot Pujara Sharma Kohli Rayadu / Mandeep / Chand Dhoni © Ashwin / Bhuvaneshwar Pankaj Yadav Shami / Ojha

[adi B]

Zaheer has past it. He could not do much against England with old or new ball, either against NZ. Though in conditions like SA, he can still be handy but he will last even a test match is doubtful now. Best Indian fast bowler right now is Umesh Yadav in test cricket and you assessment about him is wrong. he is not a hit the deck bowler like Ishant. He is a swing bowler who can bowl amazing outswingers. His bowling against WI in ODI series at home was brilliant where he was swinging the ball away from the batsman. If you saw his bowling in CLT20 played in SA, you would realize what potential this guy has.

completely agree.if he want to win test matches abroad,we need 3 good,fit genuine fast bowlers.umesh,shami,aaron(if fit ),zak should be given the top preference

[Old guy]

i will play shami,pandey and yadav infact even bhuvan will do in place of unlucky

[Muloghonto]

I think it's time to look past Sehwag. I don't think there's much use putting him in the middle order. I don't think you will see a dramatic improvement in his performance. The simple fact is that his reaction time and hand-eye coordination is getting worse.

Err, i got news for you- 99% of batsmen have diminished eyesight in their early-mid 30s compared to their mid-20s self. Does not mean we discard them. The loss is most evident amongst openers but then again, the ones who do are the very few who are equipped with a solid defensive technique. To say that a middle order bat does not benefit from comming in when the ball is 20 overs old as opposed to being 5 overs old, is not a cricketing opinion worth debating. We did see a dramatic improvement in VVS when we asked him not to open anymore, owing to the fact that he is a middle order bat. To deny that opportunity to Veeru, who is also a middle order bat by training but orders of magnitude more successful than VVS, is not only insane, it is quite typical of the semi-professionalism and half-baked ideas floating around cricket/sports in India. I think for South Africa the emphasis has to be on technique. At this stage, my squad for the South Africa series would be as follows: Rayadu / Chand Jiwanjot Pujara Sharma Kohli Rayadu / Mandeep / Chand Dhoni © Ashwin / Bhuvaneshwar Pankaj Yadav Shami / Ojha

[Vijay.Sharma]

Abbe yaar let this series get over, first

[saneindian]

Before the SA tour we will play the ClT20 and then 7 ODIs and 2 T20s with the Aussies :facepalm: Think the SA tour starts somewhere around 16th Nov, need to ensure the test squad are in SA at least 2 weeks prior to that and get to play 2, if possible 3 practice matches.

[saneindian]

Err, i got news for you- 99% of batsmen have diminished eyesight in their early-mid 30s compared to their mid-20s self. Does not mean we discard them. The loss is most evident amongst openers but then again, the ones who do are the very few who are equipped with a solid defensive technique. To say that a middle order bat does not benefit from comming in when the ball is 20 overs old as opposed to being 5 overs old, is not a cricketing opinion worth debating.

Did you consider the fact that Sehwag has started to wear glasses and I cannot recall an instance of international batsman being successful after becoming a regular user of glasses while playing international cricket. Loss of form, eyesight problems, falling fitness, slower reflxes, diminshed hand eye co-ordination, running feud with the captain, dropped from ODI side..Sehwag is battling too many demons. A middle order slot is a good idea but I doubt if that will help much. IMO Hyderabad test is the right time to see if it works.

[Muloghonto]

Did you consider the fact that Sehwag has started to wear glasses and I cannot recall an instance of international batsman being successful after becoming a regular user of glasses while playing international cricket.

Clive Lloyd ?

Loss of form, eyesight problems, falling fitness, slower reflxes, diminshed hand eye co-ordination, running feud with the captain, dropped from ODI side..Sehwag is battling too many demons. A middle order slot is a good idea but I doubt if that will help much. IMO Hyderabad test is the right time to see if it works.

I agree that if we want Sehwag to get some confidence back, doing it in India is a better idea than doing it in South Africa but IMO, Sehwag should be a locked option in South Africa in the middle order.

[bharat297]

Err, i got news for you- 99% of batsmen have diminished eyesight in their early-mid 30s compared to their mid-20s self. Does not mean we discard them. The loss is most evident amongst openers but then again, the ones who do are the very few who are equipped with a solid defensive technique. To say that a middle order bat does not benefit from comming in when the ball is 20 overs old as opposed to being 5 overs old, is not a cricketing opinion worth debating. We did see a dramatic improvement in VVS when we asked him not to open anymore, owing to the fact that he is a middle order bat. To deny that opportunity to Veeru, who is also a middle order bat by training but orders of magnitude more successful than VVS, is not only insane, it is quite typical of the semi-professionalism and half-baked ideas floating around cricket/sports in India. I have news for you. This is not the 1970s or the 1980s. You do not throw just about every kid who performs well in domestic cricket to the sharks. Thats not the modus operandi of Australia, South Africa or England (the more professional and pound-for-pound successful cricketing infrastructures globally) and it is sad to see that the subcontinental fans have not moved along with the times. We still pine for the kids on the block who will be overnight superstars in the Tendy,Waqar, Wasim etc mould. But then again, how many kids have shown up and started with a bang & sustained it in the last 10 years of test cricket ? That alone should hint to you the folly of the idea of fielding such raw and undeveloped talents like Chand, Jiwanjot, etc. in the team. Also, if SRT retires, Sehwag should be an auto-lock for a middle order position. A middle order bat with fading reflexes is the ideal candidate for being moved from opening to in the middle order, when the ball is older, bouncing less and the pitch is playing truer than in the first hour or two of a test match. I just do not understand the basis of saying a struggling middle order batsman who opens the innings should be dropped from the team instead of slotted into his natural position in the middle order! Lets draw another analogy for hypothetical's sake to demonstrate how ridiculous your idea of dropping Sehwag is: Assume for a minute that Ashwin becomes the greatest spinner ever to open the bowling and regularly makes monkeys out of top world class batsmen opening the bowling. He takes mindboggling figures for a spinner operating with the new ball, for almost a decade, whe he starts to fail. Instead of realizing that maybe, maybe like Warne, Murali, Tendy and all, who play to their strengths, Ashwin should also perhaps come back down to earth and not open the bowling, we instead, drop him. *sigh* India and India fans- the comedy of errors and unprofessionalism in all circles is astounding.

A number of things wrong with what you just said: 1. My point was that diminishing eyesight is common in mid-30s but how many of those batsmen with diminishing eyesight, poor footwork, lack of fitness / mobility and poor temperament have gone on to prosper in their mid-to-late 30s? Anyone? ... Still waiting !!! 2. I have not blindly picked anyone who has done well in domestic cricket to the "sharks". I have selected them on the merit of a combination of technique and a reasonable domestic record. I have left out a number of players incl. Mukund, Rahane, Tiwary, Jadeja who all have good domestic records but have suspect techniques that I feel will be exposed in South Africa so I don't know where you got that idea from. 3. The idea of calling Sehwag a middle-order batsman because he once batted in the middle order is laughable. He has opened the batting for 12 years now and has played the majority of his first-class cricket now as an opening batsman. Yes he has batted in the middle order too in the past but ultimately if you've played the last 12 years of international cricket as an opener, I don't think you can say your "natural" position is a middle order batsman anymore. 4. The analogy to Ashwin is laughable because your bowling order, unlike your batting order, largely changes in different conditions, so trying to draw a parellel there doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Ultimately my reasoning for dropping Sehwag is as follows: He lacks the footwork/technique/temperament to handle the moving ball. He has never been a mover of his feet. In his younger days he could get away with that because of his superior hand-eye coordination but that is diminishing. He is also quite unfit and a liability in the field (He dropped 3 simple chances in the last Test), and dropped simple chances in the England series too. To all those people who think that he is going to turn into Michael Clarke once he moves into the middle order, I ask this simple question ... If Sehwag can't face the moving ball and we move him to No.4, what happens if we lose a couple of early wickets against Steyn/Philander, do we just assume his wicket Sehwag's lost because he had to come out against the new ball and because he's not a "natural" opener, he is excused? The people that use the "natural opener" argument to defend Sehwag are kidding themselves. They act as if Sehwag did us a favour by opening the batting. When Sehwag came into the side our middle order was Dravid, Tendulkar, Ganguly, Laxman ... Sehwag would not have found a place in that middle order so Sehwag reinvented himself into an opener so he could find a spot in that side and for over a decade he was a very good opener. Now he is not. It's time to move on ... Simple!