Kohli vs Sachin . Can we stop this embarrassing comparison (POLL)

[Rasgulla]

2 minutes ago, Shunya said:

You can wake up people who are sleeping, not those who are acting to be asleep. This glorifying the past and all this nostalgia and hype that people create is just a personal bias and a way to be in denial.

Kohli, Smith and few others have done plenty to be considered equal or better than what we saw in 90s.

Players these days play more matches like T20Is and IPl compared to the past.. It's incredible how can still maintain that average like 57 or over 60 like smith in Tests despite the fatigue. 

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Shunya said:

You can wake up people who are sleeping, not those who are acting to be asleep. This glorifying the past and all this nostalgia and hype that people create is just a personal bias and a way to be in denial.

Kohli, Smith and few others have done plenty to be considered equal or better than what we saw in 90s.

Tendulkar is far better test batsman than Sunil Gavaskar, Gavaskar gets lot of pub for his 100s against WI but if look closely he scored majority of those hundreds when WI was missing their great bowling attack.  That does not mean Gavaskar was a below par player, he was great player it is just Sachin was better, he could do everything Gavaskar could do and more.

 

Kohli is doing something Sachin never could do because of his batting style, Tendulkar played in air a lot especially early in his innings and Kohli just runs for those singles and does not take many chances that is the major difference.Kohli is 10 times better chaser than Sachin.Sachin was little better in setting targets but Kohli is closed that gap.

 

Kohli in odis has no weakness as he relies more on rotation of singles and does not get flustered in chasing big total that is the major difference. It is not a knock on Sachin to say Kohli is better odi player than him.

 

AB is close but he loses out because he bats far too low in the order to have  the impact of Kohli and Amla has too many soft odi hundreds.

[Shunya]

What about batting with the responsibility of Captaincy?? Surely all these things are adding to the weight of Kohli being far superior player than Sachin.

With this series, Virat Kohli has surpassed Sachin in the tally of runs as an ODI captain. Average of 82 with SR 99

The great Sachin could not play like great with the extra burden of captaincy and had mediocre numbers. Dhoni was great with that pressure. Virat is reaching even bigger heights. Just too good.

Also, with today's century, he now holds the Record for highest ODI centuries as Captain of India - 12

Phew !!! Records just keep tumbling every series. Man, we are glad to be watching history here. 

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Captaincy as captain

Qualifications matches played greater than or equal to 10

Ordered by runs scored (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0
MS Dhoni	2007-2016	199	171	48	6633	139*	53.92	7686	86.29	6	47	3
M Azharuddin	1990-1999	174	162	29	5239	153*	39.39	6677	78.46	4	37	6
SC Ganguly	1999-2005	146	142	11	5082	144	38.79	6658	76.32	11	30	9
R Dravid	2000-2007	79	75	12	2658	105	42.19	3524	75.42	2	25	4
V Kohli	2013-2018	46	43	11	2628	160*	82.12	2655	98.98	12	10	2
SR Tendulkar	1996-2000	73	70	5	2454	186*	37.75	2939	83.49	6	12	4
N Kapil Dev	1982-1987	74	67	16	1564	175*	30.66	1479	105.74	1	7	4
SM Gavaskar	1980-1985	37	31	4	702	80	26.00	1138	61.68	0	5	3
DB Vengsarkar	1987-1989	18	17	2	481	88	32.06	713	67.46	0	4	2
RJ Shastri	1987-1991	11	11	1	441	109	44.10	526	83.84	1	3	0
V Sehwag	2003-2012	12	12	0	417	219	34.75	369	113.00	1	0	2
A Jadeja	1998-1999	13	12	3	396	103*	44.00	510	77.64	1	2	1
K Srikkanth	1989-1989	13	12	0	340	65	28.33	526	64.63	0	3	0
SK Raina	2010-2014	12	12	3	232	43	25.77	260	89.23	0	0	1

Edited February 7, 2018 by Shunya

[Shunya]

15 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Smith in ODIs or Smith in Tests? In the latter, he is a genuine ATG but not yet there in ODIs (apart from the 2015 WC).

Smith in Tests. Smith in ODIs is good as of now, but if he wins them some big tournament again he can be considered ATG and give competition to Virat as overall best cricketer. And again, we have to understand that these guys are captaining their respective sides in all formats and performing under the pressure. That is definitely something.

[Shunya]

18 minutes ago, Rasgulla said:

Players these days play more matches like T20Is and IPl compared to the past.. It's incredible how can still maintain that average like 57 or over 60 like smith in Tests despite the fatigue. 

That is a big thing which people ignore. More cricket and that too more formats always mess up batsman's mindset and fitness. And if they are captains of their team, its even more pressure. 

[putrevus]

14 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Smith in ODIs or Smith in Tests? In the latter, he is a genuine ATG but not yet there in ODIs (apart from the 2015 WC).

We have to appreciate greatness when you see it, you are right what Smith is doing in test in mind boggling similarly what Kohli is doing in odi is mind boggling too.

 

You mentioned Amla scoring odi hundreds on same pace as Kohli but Kohli is averaging 57.3 and he has played more matches than Amla.

 Averaging more than 57 is same like Smith average on 63 in tests. They are just out of this world.

[rtmohanlal]

13 hours ago, putrevus said:

This notion that Tendulkar somehow faced far superior bowlers and dominated them is totally ridiculous.Mcgrath owned him like anything.I cannot recollect any innings of worth against Ambrose.Pakistan he was consistent flop till he rectified to some extent after Akram retired to be fair to Tendulkar he never faced Akram that much.

 

Only great team he scored hundreds was Australia minus Mcgrath that too in Asia.He was iffy against SA also except one hundred I don't recollect him doing much against them away. It took Tendulkar 2007 to score hundred against Australia in Australia by that time Mcgrath was long gone.

 

 

absolutely rubbish data with out any sense.

[Rasgulla]

Rubbish poll from 354BC.. Time to restart again  2018

 

 

[putrevus]

absolutely rubbish data with out any sense.

When did he score a odi hundred against Australia in Australia, Pakistan in Pakistan.New Zealand in NZ.

When you find the answer, you will find data is not rubbish as you are imagining.

[rtmohanlal]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

When did he score a odi hundred against Australia in Australia, Pakistan in Pakistan.New Zealand in NZ.

When you find the answer, you will find data is not rubbish as you are imagining.

it is not about that  numerical value '100'.And your above question is sense less any way because Sachin does have 100s in the places you mentioned. Now... I am not going into each and every inns Sachin played  because it is not difficult for you yourself to trace that.But the most important factor is the context  in which the runs are scored.Sachin started from 89 Nov itself with huge amount of pressure  of expectations right from the start of his career. One day cricket in general became more batsman friendly only from the mid 90's .And captaincy was an additional burden to the already hugely burdened Sachin.And keep in mind, a player can relieve himself of captaincy and still remain as a very good player  if he  is feeling the load too much , just as Amla did.With pressure of huge expectations there is no such escaping route. And there are several factors too like the status of the knock,first or 2nd inns,the batting position at which the inns was played,whether the batsman remained not out,inns str: rate   etc etc that determines the quality of the knock, not numerical value '100' alone .And it is based on such contexts that we need to evaluate the big inns played by Sachin.

   For instance take his 54*(62) vs PAK at Sydney. IND-PAK match has  always been big pressure match.And in world cup the lesser said the better. It is in such a scenario that this <20 year old teenager played a  crucial  not out inns from 5th  batting position at such high str: rate in a very low scoring match against a bowling unit that eventually won the world cup.For me that inns is worth lot more than a  100  scored in a pucca  batting  friendly pitch in a bilateral against any lower ranked team.

 Another is his 65*(70)  in West Indies in 97 tour.This inns came in a match where Prasad and Kuruvilla of all people became virtually unplayable and Windies got all out for 116. Sachin made a mockery of the chase by dominating  Ambrose,Walsh & Bishop on such a pitch in which Prasad was unplayable and remained not out.

    Like wise there are several  inns of his.And to me the impact of  this 'pressure of expectations' factor was  no better revealed than  in that Diana Memorial match. Sachin chased a mammoth 274 or some thing against Mcgrath,Donald,Srinath & Kumble to score a match winning 125 of just 114 balls at Lords.

  So while evaluating Sachin the batsman I take into account all these factors.

[putrevus]

it is not about that  numerical value '100'.And your above question is sense less any way because Sachin does have 100s in the places you mentioned. Now... I am not going into each and every inns Sachin played  because it is not difficult for you yourself to trace that.But the most important factor is the context  in which the runs are scored.Sachin started from 89 Nov itself with huge amount of pressure  of expectations right from the start of his career. One day cricket in general became more batsman friendly only from the mid 90's .And captaincy was an additional burden to the already hugely burdened Sachin.And keep in mind, a player can relieve himself of captaincy and still remain as a very good player  if he  is feeling the load too much , just as Amla did.With pressure of huge expectations there is no such escaping route. And there are several factors too like the status of the knock,first or 2nd inns,the batting position at which the inns was played,whether the batsman remained not out,inns str: rate   etc etc that determines the quality of the knock, not numerical value '100' alone .And it is based on such contexts that we need to evaluate the big inns played by Sachin.
   For instance take his 54*(62) vs PAK at Sydney. IND-PAK match has  always been big pressure match.And in world cup the lesser said the better. It is in such a scenario that this  Another is his 65*(70)  in West Indies in 97 tour.This inns came in a match where Prasad and Kuruvilla of all people became virtually unplayable and Windies got all out for 116. Sachin made a mockery of the chase by dominating  Ambrose,Walsh & Bishop on such a pitch in which Prasad was unplayable and remained not out.
    Like wise there are several  inns of his.And to me the impact of  this 'pressure of expectations' factor was  no better revealed than  in that Diana Memorial match. Sachin chased a mammoth 274 or some thing against Mcgrath,Donald,Srinath & Kumble to score a match winning 125 of just 114 balls at Lords.
  So while evaluating Sachin the batsman I take into account all these factors.

I look for 100s and in my book Sachin never lived up to to expectations against big Teams away.

Diana memorial and all those friendly matches don’t count.

Kohli the one day player is far superior to Sachin the odi player.

People keep referring to Virat World Cup failures but he has done better than Sachin in CTs. World Cup knock outs is where Virat needs to improve.


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[rtmohanlal]

10 hours ago, putrevus said:

I look for 100s and in my book Sachin never lived up to to expectations against big Teams away.

Diana memorial and all those friendly matches don’t count.

Kohli the one day player is far superior to Sachin the odi player.

People keep referring to Virat World Cup failures but he has done better than Sachin in CTs. World Cup knock outs is where Virat needs to improve.


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This criteria of yours , i mean ' just looking for 100s  with out any context' does  not look  sensible to  me at all. For instance Sachin's 98(75) vs PAK  in SAF  in world cup is far far better than any 100 vs them because of the 'world cup, chasing,str: rate,vs PAK factors.And Sachin has got 11 100s vs non minnow away means you are contradicting your selves.

[putrevus]

This criteria of yours , i mean ' just looking for 100s  with out any context' does  not look  sensible to  me at all. For instance Sachin's 98(75) vs PAK  in SAF  in world cup is far far better than any 100 vs them because of the 'world cup, chasing,str: rate,vs PAK factors.And Sachin has got 11 100s vs non minnow away means you are contradicting your selves.

That 98 you are referring to was scored over Pakistan attack where two of their main fast bowlers were on last legs and it was not a knock out match. India was going to semis even if it lost.

Where as Sachin scored away hundreds in Aus , NZ, WI when they had bowling and SA.

That 98 is hyped up because it is Sachin and Pakistan, if that is what got for Sachin then that tell whole story.

When people claim you are the best you need to have some extra ordinary feats.

McGrath owned him in all big matches.



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[rtmohanlal]

26 minutes ago, putrevus said:

That 98 you are referring to was scored over Pakistan attack where two of their main fast bowlers were on last legs and it was not a knock out match. India was going to semis even if it lost.

Where as Sachin scored away hundreds in Aus , NZ, WI when they had bowling and SA.

That 98 is hyped up because it is Sachin and Pakistan, if that is what got for Sachin then that tell whole story.

When people claim you are the best you need to have some extra ordinary feats.

McGrath owned him in all big matches.



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Yeah ...Waqar was only around 32 & Wasim 36..... Last legs ?????? Tell that to kids....And Akhtar was at his menacing best too.And  now another of your senseless demand comes .... "it was not a knock out match. India was going to semis even if it lost."

For your info: Sachin scored 91 & 117* in 2 finals in AUS against Lee(certified one day ATG),Bracken(very good bowler and certainly an ATG if not for lack of longevity) and Johnson(very good one day bowler).

I think you too have access to cricinfo site. You can check other brilliant score of Sachin yourself.Mcgrath owned him????If  Mcgrath got the better of Sachin on a few occasions, Sachin too scored bucket loads against Mcgrath.But then based on your 'sense less ' criterias,you are not  going to get satisfied any way.

[vvvslaxman]

Random comment i ran into on the internet lol

[kira]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

McGrath owned him in all big matches.
 

Bose dk did mcgrath own sachin in 96 wc?

Did mcgrath own sachin in 2000 champs trophy in nairobi?

Did mcgrath own sachin in the 1999 test series in australia?

Did mcgrath own sachin in 2001 test series in India?

 

The only time mcgrath "owned" sachin was the 2003 wc final when he had 350+ runs to defend and the 2004 test series when sachin was returning from injury.

 

Don't display your stupidity all over the forum

[rtmohanlal]

11 minutes ago, kira said:

Bose dk did mcgrath own sachin in 96 wc?

Did mcgrath own sachin in 2000 champs trophy in nairobi?

Did mcgrath own sachin in the 1999 test series in australia?

Did mcgrath own sachin in 2001 test series in India?

 

The only time mcgrath "owned" sachin was the 2003 wc final when he had 350+ runs to defend and the 2004 test series when sachin was returning from injury.

 

Don't display your stupidity all over the forum

The basic problem  with 'Putrevus' is that  if  an individual  inns(even if it is an opener who gets the chance to play the maximum balls) that touches the numerical value of '100' in a pucca batting pitch with team scoring so heavily  in  a first inns total against a  team with one 'atg' bowler  in a bilateral , then for him that inns is a  great  one.The only criteria is  that it should touch '100' with one ATG bowler in the opposition team .All other criterias count for nothing.Such a sense less foolish way of analysis!!!!!

[Rasgulla]

On 09/02/2018 at 4:47 PM, kira said:

Bose dk did mcgrath own sachin in 96 wc?

Did mcgrath own sachin in 2000 champs trophy in nairobi?

Did mcgrath own sachin in the 1999 test series in australia?

Did mcgrath own sachin in 2001 test series in India?

 

The only time mcgrath "owned" sachin was the 2003 wc final when he had 350+ runs to defend and the 2004 test series when sachin was returning from injury.

 

Don't display your stupidity all over the forum

Everyone knows sachin is bunny of Mcgrath, Malinga and your Pakistani ajmal.. Abusing members doesn't prove anything..  MTC v2 

 

Mcgrath continuously owned him and actually no one even needs to anything when it gets to finals..Sachin a proven choker under pressure situations

 

 

Edited February 12, 2018 by Rasgulla