India a poor one day team, anything beyond Semis a bonus

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Overall bowling has improved but the batting has regressed.

Batting has not regressed , other teams especially England have improved. Who are the players you think will improve batting but have been left out.

[Ultimate_Game]

Just now, putrevus said:

Batting has not regressed , other teams especially England have improved. Who are the players you think will improve batting but have been left out.

Batting has regressed coz we have the same core players we had 4 years back and they aren't as young any more and neither in the same form. E.g., Dhawan of 2017 isn't the same as 2013 Dhawan, Dhoni from 2017 isn't the same as Doni circa 2013. Yuvraj and Rahane are liabilities against half decent bowling. Kohli is the only player who can be termed as an improvement from 2013 or similar to the one in 2013 provided he gets back to form.

 

I would've loved to have Pant in the team at the top of the order with either Dhawan or Rohit. We need an enforcer at the top with teams like Eng and Aus scoring in the region of 330-350. Instead of Yuvraj I would've preferred someone like Raina or any of the in form batsman from IPL who can go from ball one. Raina has generally done well in England in odis and is a better batsman at the moment and a much better fielder than Yuvraj. Yuvraj is not the same as the one from 2007-11 and is a shadow of his former self. Even this IPL his two decent scores have come after he was dropped. At intl level you won't see sitters like the one Samson dropped for Yvraj to get away.

[Number]

I dont get the excitement over bowling attack.

Shami is coming back from long injury layoff.

Umesh as much he has improved in tests has a lot to prove in ODIs.

Bumrah how do ppl see him as a wicket taker in ODIs ? Agree he will be good in death overs.

Bhuvi has avg of 40 in 60 ODIs says it all.

 

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Batting has regressed coz we have the same core players we had 4 years back and they aren't as young any more and neither in the same form. E.g., Dhawan of 2017 isn't the same as 2013 Dhawan, Dhoni from 2017 isn't the same as Doni circa 2013. Yuvraj and Rahane are liabilities against half decent bowling. Kohli is the only player who can be termed as an improvement from 2013 or similar to the one in 2013 provided he gets back to form.

 

I would've loved to have Pant in the team at the top of the order with either Dhawan or Rohit. We need an enforcer at the top with teams like Eng and Aus scoring in the region of 330-350. Instead of Yuvraj I would've preferred someone like Raina or any of the in form batsman from IPL who can go from ball one. Raina has generally done well in England in odis and is a better batsman at the moment and a much better fielder than Yuvraj. Yuvraj is not the same as the one from 2007-11 and is a shadow of his former self. Even this IPL his two decent scores have come after he was dropped. At intl level you won't see sitters like the one Samson dropped for Yvraj to get away.

What has Pant done to think he will be better than Dhawan. India simply has not produced the the hitters like other teams .

 

Other than Pant there is no legitimate gripe about anyone else. Dhoni is still the best keeper for Odis, you cannot blame selectors for being safe.

[Ultimate_Game]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What has Pant done to think he will be better than Dhawan. India simply has not produced the the hitters like other teams .

 

Other than Pant there is no legitimate gripe about anyone else. Dhoni is still the best keeper for Odis, you cannot blame selectors for being safe.

We can only find out if given a chance. Pant has shown that he's a class apart at taking on bowling at the top both at u-19 level and this IPL. We need to think outside the box and back Pant so he can play the same role Gilchrist used to perform for Australia. Back him and let him go after the bowling in PP and he will surprise you.

 

Pitches in England for shorter formats are on flattish side and the ball comes on to the bat, which is perfect for someone like Pant. If I'd to make only one change to the team, it would be playing Pant as an opener and giving him license to go for his shots.

[maniac]

Huge step backward....Yuvraj,Dhawan,Rahane,Dhoni

 

 

[Cricketics]

Won't use the term poor but we aren't surely great at this time but cricket, the game changes fast if one of India's top player finds form and bats amazingly in the start of the tournament.

 

Since the first game is against Pakistan, we can take the momentum from that game if we win comprehensively there.  In most tournaments, whenever we have beaten Pakistan, we have played great cricket after that in the tournament against other opponents. So that India-Pak game is going to be a big game not just for the rivalry but for bringing back our team's confidence all together, especially for the bats and bowlers who have been failing or been ordinary in the recent history.

 

We might look world beaters right after that game or could look ordinary and low on confidence after that game. Its all mental during that game and after that game. 

 

[putrevus]

11 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

We can only find out if given a chance. Pant has shown that he's a class apart at taking on bowling at the top both at u-19 level and this IPL. We need to think outside the box and back Pant so he can play the same role Gilchrist used to perform for Australia. Back him and let him go after the bowling in PP and he will surprise you.

 

Pitches in England for shorter formats are on flattish side and the ball comes on to the bat, which is perfect for someone like Pant. If I'd to make only one change to the team, it would be playing Pant as an opener and giving him license to go for his shots.

He has not even opened in List A matches and you want him to open in odis in CT when he has never done anything like it before, I don't think you play around the squad for a big tournament.

 

Every one is just harping on Pant, yes he was close to being selected but I do not think it is a blunder.He has not even opened in his recent list A matches.

 

If it is just one selection which is being debated then I think selectors have done their job.

[Laaloo]

31 minutes ago, Number said:

I dont get the excitement over bowling attack.

Shami is coming back from long injury layoff.

Umesh as much he has improved in tests has a lot to prove in ODIs.

Bumrah how do ppl see him as a wicket taker in ODIs ? Agree he will be good in death overs.

Bhuvi has avg of 40 in 60 ODIs says it all.

 

Haven't you heard? Because Bhuvi keeps things tight other bowlers get free wickets because batsmen try to see out Bhuvi and score off of those bowlers.

Edited May 8, 2017 by laaloo

[Ultimate_Game]

3 minutes ago, putrevus said:

He has not even opened in List A matches and you want him to open in odis in CT when he has never done anything like it before, I don't think you play around the squad for a big tournament.

 

Every one is just harping on Pant, yes he was close to being selected but I do not think it is a blunder.He has not even opened in his recent list A matches.

 

If it is just one selection which is being debated then I think selectors have done their job.

Sehwag never opened in domestic cricket as well and yet he was one of our best openers. At least Pant has opened at u-19 level and his game is built on taking on bowlers. Batting at the top during PP overs with just 2 fielders out is perfect for him.

[putrevus]

9 minutes ago, laaloo said:

Haven't you heard? Because Bhuvi keeps things tight other bowlers get free wickets because batsmen try to see out Bhuvi and score off of those bowlers.

Who were you expecting in the squad then?

[Laaloo]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Who were you expecting in the squad then?

I'm not happy Pant is there and Rahane is there. I wanted one more spinner in. I don't have problems with Bhuvi.

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, Ultimate_Game said:

Sehwag never opened in domestic cricket as well and yet he was one of our best openers. At least Pant has opened at u-19 level and his game is built on taking on bowlers. Batting at the top during PP overs with just 2 fielders out is perfect for him.

But Sehwag did not make his debut as an opener in an major tournament. Pant is replacing the second best opening pair India ever had, I do not think it is wrong not to select him.

[putrevus]

8 minutes ago, laaloo said:

I'm not happy Pant is there and Rahane is there. I wanted one more spinner in. I don't have problems with Bhuvi.

Rahane is going as reserve opener which Pant is not at least in selectors eyes.So I do not think, it is wrong. what else you expect from them.Who is the spinner you want and who is he replacing?

Edited May 8, 2017 by putrevus

[Laaloo]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

Rahane is going as reserve opener which Pant is not at least in selectors eyes.So I do not think what else you expect from them.Who is the spinner you want and who is he replacing?

Even though Kuldeep is a bit inexperienced, I would have picked him. Not sure if Ashwin has recovered from Sports hernia or not. Why couldn't Pant be selected as a reserve opener? When will selectors realize that Rahane is not a good LOI player. How many more chances does he still need?

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, laaloo said:

Even though Kuldeep is a bit inexperienced, I would have picked him. Not sure if Ashwin has recovered from Sports hernia or not. Why couldn't Pant be selected as a reserve opener? When will selectors realize that Rahane is not a good LOI player. How many more chances does he still need?

You have to be fair on them, you cannot expect to send a rookie who has never opened to major tournament as reserve opener in a country where ball does a bit.

 

I have seen people here complaining about selection but everybody is just harping on Pant .Other than him who has missed out.Kuldeep is also facing the same situation as Pant, you just do not experiment with rookies in a big tournament.

 

You cannot expect selectors to create players for you.

[Ultimate_Game]

11 minutes ago, putrevus said:

But Sehwag did not make his debut as an opener in an major tournament. Pant is replacing the second best opening pair India ever had, I do not think it is wrong not to select him.

Sometimes you have to play a player when he's in red hot form. Our odi team is jaded and has been the same since 2013. IMO Pant's selection and him having a go at the top of the order will be a shot in the arm for the team. I would rather back an exciting youngster than stick to the conservative status quo which hasn't yielded any results over the last 4 years.

[Laaloo]

2 minutes ago, putrevus said:

You have to be fair on them, you cannot expect to send a rookie who has never opened to major tournament as reserve opener in a country where ball does a bit.

 

I have seen people here complaining about selection but everybody is just harping on Pant .Other than him who has missed out.Kuldeep is also facing the same situation as Pant, you just do not experiment with rookies in a big tournament.

 

You cannot expect selectors to create players for you.

We had the likes of Zaheer and Yuvi make debuts in high profile tournaments and they never looked back. Pant is a special talent. He has scored lots of runs in the domestics. We experimented with Kuldeep in the last test with everything on the line. Why cant we do the same now?

[Ultimate_Game]

11 minutes ago, laaloo said:

We had the likes of Zaheer and Yuvi make debuts in high profile tournaments and they never looked back. Pant is a special talent. He has scored lots of runs in the domestics. We experimented with Kuldeep in the last test with everything on the line. Why cant we do the same now?

And I would say playing Kuldeep in a must win Test was a bigger risk than playing Pant in CT.

[Laaloo]

Just now, Ultimate_Game said:

And I would say playing Kuldeep in a must win Test was a bigger risk than playing Pant in CT.

Especially considering that we had to replace Kohli and not a bowler!!!