Kulbhushan Jadhav Case | India vs Pakistan Live at ICJ (Comprehensive Victory for India)

[Mariyam]

1 hour ago, Shunya said:

But he is right about Jadhav this time. We are celebrating as if we have got him freed. Assuming he is alive, he is still in Pak Jail and will receive same fate as Sarabjit. Chest beating should be done when we get him out free and alive in one piece, not right now. 

We primarily went to the ICJ to get a stay on his execution and to get consular access. On both counts, the verdict went our way. Now we will push for a re-trial and choose our defence team.

[mishra]

Just now, Mariyam said:

We primarily went to the ICJ to get a stay on his execution and to get consular access. On both counts, the verdict went our way. Now we will push for a re-trial and choose our defence team.

Are you sure  about Consular access? I dont think ICJ has yet directed that Pakistan gives Consular access.

[Mariyam]

1 hour ago, Asim said:

Honestly speaking, (end result of what) All india is doing in case of Yadev/Jadev/Mubarak/Patel whatever he is:

is to make sure that he should rot in jail for many many decades instead of getting an instant death sentence...

Maybe what you say is right. But do you not think that people should get a fair trial.

For example, Kasab's trial was open to *select* journalists. The footage of the video trials was sent to media houses. We ensured that he was well given his legal dues. All this for a coward who mass murdered defenseless civilians. You may have a 1000 things against India, but you can't deny that we gave Kasab all that was due to him.

 

In the case of Kulbhushan Jadhav. The charges against him are vague at best. We do not know who is the defense lawyer. How long the hearing was and what evidence was presented. Nor do we know what all was listed in the charge sheet. By all conventions, if you claim he is an Indian, it is imperative you give us consular access to the accused so that we can best arranged his legal defense.

 

[Mariyam]

12 minutes ago, mishra said:

Are you sure  about Consular access? I dont think ICJ has yet directed that Pakistan gives Consular access.

In a nut shell,

Pakistan hadn't given any assurances that they wouldn't execute Jadhav before the trial was over. Hence the stay order. Now, they'd break international law if they did execute him.

The ICJ also said that not granting consular access is a violation of the Vienna Convention. They have requested Pakistan to grant consular access.

[motomaverick]

 

Porks now crying why they went to ICJ.

 

[kira]

7 hours ago, tweaker said:

Kulbhushan will end up like sarabjit too, unfortunately

[kira]

2 hours ago, Asim said:

yeah and we can see expertise of WHOLE india in Ludhanvi logic since last 20 hrs, jumping up n down, celebrations, congratulations... and Pak is like, "lol, really? keep it up"

 

Nope, pak is not loling, dil bahlane ko khyal acha hai asim par just check how your news channels are crying  apne aap se jhoot kyun bol rha hai asim

 

 

 

[motomaverick]

Quite a while back I Dr. Shashi Tharoor actually summed up Pakistan in a very apt way. Even Porks will find it tough to argue on the points he raises.

 

 

[Asim]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

Maybe what you say is right. But do you not think that people should get a fair trial.

For example, Kasab's trial was open to *select* journalists. The footage of the video trials was sent to media houses. We ensured that he was well given his legal dues. All this for a coward who mass murdered defenseless civilians. You may have a 1000 things against India, but you can't deny that we gave Kasab all that was due to him.

 

In the case of Kulbhushan Jadhav. The charges against him are vague at best. We do not know who is the defense lawyer. How long the hearing was and what evidence was presented. Nor do we know what all was listed in the charge sheet. By all conventions, if you claim he is an Indian, it is imperative you give us consular access to the accused so that we can best arranged his legal defense.

 

I am sure being an indian it would be difficult for you to understand (or accept to say the least) the circumstances...

 

to start with, You must have an honest idea, who is yadev and where/how/from whom he was caught... Clearly he was not someone caught by Punjab police while snatching a purse or mobile, right? It was an indian spy caught red handed by Pakistan Army, holding a fake identity indian passport, already traced-down with direct involvements in terrorism activities in Pak...

 

Now, ur concerns regarding trial are probably fair from your perspective but let me try giving an overview from our perspective...
Pakistan is in a state of war in many regions now nearly since a decade and running a world's biggest series of operations against terrorism, during which nearly 1 lakh+ civilians and almost equal number of troops been martyred, ANY country in World under such extraordinary situations will take extraordinary measures to deal with national security... Pak infact kept on running trial against terrorist in civilian courts for starting few years but unfortunately we had such judicial system where Any case can be dragged for 100 years and clearly laws were not updated enough to deal this new phenomenon of terrorism so it rather started helping them and terrorism went on rise, only then to deal such emergency situation, Pak established Military courts with special privileges to deal Terrorists till the war is not over and Yadev was not the only 1 such case, there are probably 200+ trials already run against such terrorists (who were caught red handed by Army with all evidences). Now obv u had an idea how Miltary courts can operate and even then obv u would question their working but the thing is: Pakistan, like any other country, had to look at our own National interest and National security first, No Matter What... and EVERY Pakistani do know since these Military courts were established, Terrorism right from next day started to fell and Pak nation started winning this war more swiftly. Now doesnt matter where someone was from and was it a spy or planner or executor, as long as he had direct involvement in any terrorism activity taking lives of innocent civilians, Pak had to equally deal with them at least, till war or such emergency situation do not get over...

 

p.s. do u remember few years ago in ind some alleged terrorist was given death sentence by indian supreme court and verdict was like, although there were not enough evidence against him but we are giving death penalty on the basis of  collective consciousness of society, ok fair... but now would you like a try imagining about collective consciousness of society where in 1 decade from school going class-1 kid in uniform to college, university students and faculty to travelers, namazi, doctors, patients, artists, tourists to politicians to Army Generals; people from EVERY aspect of life given their lives and millions got directly effected or displaced and war is still not over... now under such emergency situation and during such state of war imagine outsiders giving Pak lectures about fair trials & 'human rights' of terrorists...!!!

 

(Still having said all of above, I wont mind Pak sharing major evidences with ind or satisfying them but in my opinion it also depends a lot on ind attitude, they want to do all this with badmaashi, mtlab chori b aur seena zori b... which wont work in this case bcz ind do cry in whole world for Pak non-state actors whereas this time Pak had an indian state-actor)

[mishra]

^

1. Which Pakistani terrorist was caught wher Pakistan requested but was denied consular access? We even shared evidence after Pathankot attack.

2. How murdering anyone and everyone  linked or not linked to terrorists/Baloch freedom fighters is even remotely related to Jadhav.

3.Just because Kulbhushan was associated with Indian forces in 2000 and say caught from Iran, Afghanistan, Balichistan, wherever, what was need to create a completely fake video of him. And then put it on youtube. Even terrorist dont accept they are ISI/terrorist, How do you think world will believe the story that a seasoned RAW agent will accept he is RAW?

4. When ISI/RAW agents are caught, either nation nether report nor accept. If he was really RAW, Pakistan would have summarily put him behind bars or changed him and sent back to India. In this case, Pakistan is advertising that it has arrested and India has gone several step and said that Kulbhushan is Indian and requested Consular access. Sushma Swaraj has gone great length to support Indians abroad, and this looks similar case to Indians. Despite navy background, Jadhav may have been just a businessman and Pakistani army has a agenda.

 

PS: I am not even going into fake charges, fake video, fake passport, fake arrest stories as there is absolutely no evidence.

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by mishra

[kira]

54 minutes ago, Asim said:

(Still having said all of above, I wont mind Pak sharing major evidences with ind or satisfying them but in my opinion it also depends a lot on ind attitude, they want to do all this with badmaashi, mtlab chori b aur seena zori b... which wont work in this case bcz ind do cry in whole world for Pak non-state actors whereas this time Pak had an indian state-actor)

hahaha and what exactly are you going to do about that, I thought pak was going expose India on international forum with kulbhushan yadav, but look what happened in the international forum, they slapped pakistan again and reminded you of your true aukaat, pak is a terrorist nation in the eyes of the world, you people have problems with iran, afghanistan, India, all your neighbours accuse you of terrorism, osama was found on your land, hafiz saeed roams on your land, but in the mind of delusional pakistanis the whole world is conspiring against you guys  Your phateechar army is the most corrupt institution in your country, they have destroyed your language, they have killed your people, but still you people like to lick the boots of your army. You jihadis will probably kill kulbhushan, that's what is expected from the terrorist state, India by going to ICJ at least showed your true face to the world  

[jalebi_bhai]

7 hours ago, Asim said:

 

mtlab kuch b?  abey he is talking about indian authorities confusions over him (infact indian authorities in start even dis-owned him), how does that mean WE are8th not sure?

When did this happen again and exactly who disowned him? Plese provide evidence for your claim. 

[kira]

15 May: "hum nay India ki piddhi nikal di ICJ mein" - Pak media 

 

 

18 May: "Humari piddi nikal gyi"- Pak media 

Link-> http://www.zemtv.com/2017/05/18/khabar-kay-peechay-fawad-chaudhry-kay-saath-18th-may-2017/

[Texan]

16 hours ago, Asim said:

 

mtlab kuch b?  abey he is talking about indian authorities confusions over him (infact indian authorities in start even dis-owned him), how does that mean WE are not sure?

Do you even bother ever checking facts or do you just blabber anything? I can understand that Lahori Logic does not consider facts into any argument, but sometimes you should try checking them. India accepted him as Indian citizen immediately even when Pak did not even provide any consular access to him. Totally unlike Pakistanis who lie through their teeth whenever they are got with their underpants down. OBL, Ajmal all are prime examples of that.

 

And your own lawyer like a clown is arguing in ICJ that India needs to prove his Indian citizenship. So make up your freaking mind whether he is Indian or not.

[Texan]

16 hours ago, Asim said:

well, Go to ICJ, they might help...

We don't go to ICJ crying about everything. We know which issues to take up bilaterally and which to take up in ICJ. This was a blatant violation of Vienna Convention, so deserved to be taken to ICJ. 

 

By the way, you don't accept those guys are terrorists that you housed in your backyard?? You call them non-state actors but never try them for any crime? You don't hand them over to us? Why don't you answer something with some real arguments and putting some facts on the table than just diverting topics.

[Texan]

16 hours ago, Asim said:

yeah and we can see expertise of WHOLE india in Ludhanvi logic since last 20 hrs, jumping up n down, celebrations, congratulations... and Pak is like, "lol, really? keep it up"

LOL. You guys were the ones that were Super over-confident that you will see a verdict in your favor within days. Just read your news sites before the verdict and read them now. Super Flop show is now being followed by excuses like "Our lawyers didn't have enough time to prepare", "we didn't use the full 90 mins", etc.

 

[jalebi_bhai]

2 hours ago, Texan said:

Do you even bother ever checking facts or do you just blabber anything? I can understand that Lahori Logic does not consider facts into any argument, but sometimes you should try checking them. India accepted him as Indian citizen immediately even when Pak did not even provide any consular access to him. Totally unlike Pakistanis who lie through their teeth whenever they are got with their underpants down. OBL, Ajmal all are prime examples of that.

 

And your own lawyer like a clown is arguing in ICJ that India needs to prove his Indian citizenship. So make up your freaking mind whether he is Indian or not.

I may have found the source of his misinformation :

 

 

From around 2.26 he mentions that India disowned KJ. Their kachra media has been propagating this.

[Mariyam]

@Asim

 

You have raised many points, I'll try and address them piecemeal. To begin with, I am not preaching about human rights, nor am I giving you a lecture.

 

1) About the intentions of Yadav, apart from what that tape (which could be under duress) there is no evidence shared. We don't know if this conspiracy was only on paper or if he achieved any portion of what that tape claims. . No witness testimonies. No evidence of any kind. No charge sheet which highlights under what sections he is charged. Forget us, even the Pakistani awam is not made aware of any of this. I want to accept all that your court says in good faith, but hum kaise yaqeen kar lein ki trial hui bhi hai ya nahin.

 

2) Your second point about backlog of cases is not valid. India, for example has a backlog of 2.5 crore+ cases, civil and criminal. Yet that should not stand in the way of justice. Did we say that and not give Kasab a trial? In such cases fast track courts are set up. If a government wants to, it can arrange for all this.

[Asim]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

@Asim

 

You have raised many points, I'll try and address them piecemeal. To begin with, I am not preaching about human rights, nor am I giving you a lecture.

 

1) About the intentions of Yadav, apart from what that tape (which could be under duress) there is no evidence shared. We don't know if this conspiracy was only on paper or if he achieved any portion of what that tape claims. . No witness testimonies. No evidence of any kind. No charge sheet which highlights under what sections he is charged. Forget us, even the Pakistani awam is not made aware of any of this. I want to accept all that your court says in good faith, but hum kaise yaqeen kar lein ki trial hui bhi hai ya nahin.

 

2) Your second point about backlog of cases is not valid. India, for example has a backlog of 2.5 crore+ cases, civil and criminal. Yet that should not stand in the way of justice. Did we say that and not give Kasab a trial? In such cases fast track courts are set up. If a government wants to, it can arrange for all this.

I somewhat agree with '1' but as for as I know this case was still most publicly shared case as compared to all other terrorism cases under Army and probably u know how ind changed its stances started from not owning him to a common buinsessman to a navy person when Pak made his video public... Pak even shared the fake identity passport he was carrying, now honestly even this tiny info should give u an idea what could possibly be going on? However I still agree, Pak should share some more info to give ind enough satisfaction...

 

2. U missed the whole scenario I mentioned which became basis to go beyond our civilian courts, I have to repeat most of points... it obv got nothing to do with backlog of cases, that's v much the same or even worse here but that wasn't the issue... it was only such extraordinary situation of war against terrorism and cases against red-handed captured terrorist who started taking benefits of outdated laws (probably u had an idea how USA and many other countries established new institutions with extraordinary privileges just to deal this post 9/11 phenomenon of terrorism) and Pak had worst situation in world since this was an unprecedented; biggest on ground within own country war against terrorism and situation demanded to established Miltary courts to to deal such extraordinary situation till the war is not over, now again anyone sitting outside can easily raise Qs why, how, proofs! human rights? unfair etc etc... but honestly speaking u will forget all such Qs and will want ANYTHING be done to deal such situation if God-forbid u had 100s of 26/11 which unfortunately we; Pakistani nation faced...

[kira]

 

@Asim Dekh asim dekh, kab tak jhoot bolega apne aap se