"Virat Kohli plays the Ugly Indian. " - Tunku Varadarajan

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Vilander said:

  India is just *ing over populated.

While that's true, but we do have a lot of low hanging fruit in terms of system improvements that can be made, to reduce bottlenecks.  But Indians have a very stubborn stickiness for "this is the way its always been done".   I don't want to succumb to the usual NRI thing of criticizing desi methods based on short visits.  But man, paperwork or systems in India are hopelessly cumbersome and needlessly complex, almost 100% of the time.   A bit of leadership, and some tinkering with workflows would have massive impacts on outcomes.   But then the inefficiency is a useful asset for those who are sitting at the choke-points - why would they be interested in speeding things up, when they can charge "extra" to do so?   

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

But then the inefficiency is a useful asset for those who are sitting at the choke-points - why would they be interested in speeding things up, when they can charge "extra" to do so? 

morally since some of us have 'jumped ships' or are in the process of, we have lost the ability to criticize, but still retain the ability to care and do something about. so the key is not to criticize but try to look for avenues to help, albeit minimal they have to be found. But on institutionalized corruption not much can be done, just donate to non corrupt politicians and hope they stay non corrupt. But situation is pretty grave, for instance, recently in TN TTV Dinakaran won in RK Nagar ( bi-election for Jayas constituency) , the guy is super corrupt and some sections of society like the fact that he is cleaver in foxing the system and is giving good bribes for votes so they cheer him, the rot is too deep. When a society is this rotten, something gives at some point.

[Vilander]

2 minutes ago, MultiB48 said:

that's because they conquered those lands which reduced the pressure on european civilization,could you imagine lands stretching from canada to argentina ,throw in australia and the majority of russia and the lost colonies of africa and asia and here we got partitioned lol

loosing of Afg/Pak/BD to muslims and loss of Tibet to Chinese is purely Indian fault, you need to defend your land.

[Number]

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, BeardedAladdin said:

 

Oh really??!?!?!

 

Well..............maybe the idea of

 

" It almost indoctrinates people to follow the "take care of me and mine first" mentality, which becomes a very vicious cycle to break.  "

 

WOULD HELP PREVENT THAT?

 

LOL

no better strategic organization and centralized polity in Indian military/political past would have prevented it, having organized centralized effective capitals and systems would have prevented Indian empires from loosing land/resources because of lack of continuous stability to other cultures ( Persian/Arab/Chinese) this eventual loss of resources bit by bit at the end of every empire has lead to resource shortages that one sees in Modern day India. Imagine a homogeneous nation of billion + people spread from Afg to NE and Pamir to Kanyakumari - that would have been a great Nation. Not that it is an ideal that modern India should aim for but its opportunity lost, one can learn from it. What India needs now is institutions that are not corrupt but are efficient.

[Vilander]

12 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

There is NOTHING wrong with any of this. People do their best, and SHOULD strive to do their best in all circumstances.

 

Human beings should look out for themselves, first and foremost.

 

But this mentality shouldn't exist in administrators or politicians; they have to think of the greater good. They need a sense of collectivism. The problem in india is that 'kursi' is easily accessible to elites and they have a common man's mentality when they're in a position of power, they look out for themselves.

 

Personally, i think this is symptomatic of building a country on a foundation of shitty secular values.

Self preservation and abiding to laws can and do co exist. 

[vvvslaxman]

Don't want to stereotype. There is this inbuilt, confrontation aggression i have noticed among Delhites. Be it is KOhli or Gambhir or Dhawan or Manoj Prabkar or Mohinder. May be it is more cultural. 

[vvvslaxman]

3 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

I'm from dilli.

 

Its a big city. You have to fight for every little thing you have. Even if you're wealthy, you still have to work hard.

 

Delhi cricket is all about nepotism, its the worst run board in india. You have to overcome a lot of obstacles in order to make a name for yourself in Delhi.

 

Why do you think Gambhir has had so many run-ins with Delhi cricket administrators and coaches? He isn't selfish.

Delhi boys are always crunch game specialists :) May be this fighting spirit helps them. Gambhir did well in WC2011 final, WT20 2007 final,  Mohinder did well in 1983 final, Kohli did well in CT 2015 final also world T20 final,  Sehwag was the only who made 81 in 2003 final albeit in losing cause. 

[sandeep]

30 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

 

Oh really??!?!?!

 

Well..............maybe the idea of

 

" It almost indoctrinates people to follow the "take care of me and mine first" mentality, which becomes a very vicious cycle to break.  "

 

WOULD HELP PREVENT THAT?

 

LOL

No.  It actually leads to in-fighting and lack of organization, and then a last minute, desperate "last stand" at Panipat.   

 

"LOL".   

[NameGoesHere]

12 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

I'm from dilli.

 

Its a big city. You have to fight for every little thing you have. Even if you're wealthy, you still have to work hard.

 

Delhi cricket is all about nepotism, its the worst run board in india. You have to overcome a lot of obstacles in order to make a name for yourself in Delhi.

 

Why do you think Gambhir has had so many run-ins with Delhi cricket administrators and coaches? He isn't selfish.

I agree with most of what you say. 

 

However (we may diverge here) I've lived a significant chunk of my life in Delhi, and still detest the prevailing culture.  To me it has that whom -do -you- know, how- much -do -you- possess, where -do -you -live attitude that abrades on the nerves.

 

In fact I got the exact same vibes when I lived (mercifully very briefly) in Washington DC, yet another city of arrogant, politicised hustlers.  Perhaps capital cities the world over are the same.  Conversely I found Mumbai and New York also similar and al lot more pleasant to live in.  Mumbai was about 15 years ago, I probably would struggle with the crowds today.

 

I admire Gambhir all the more because of the leadership he has displayed in trying to contribute to Delhi cricket.

 

Edited January 30, 2018 by NameGoesHere

[Vilander]

25 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

Welcome to hindutva. 

 

:)

 

i know for a limited mind sure it looks like akand bharath etc, and you can not find fault in some thinking it is. But its a misplaced ideal, what is needed is preserving what remains and building what will stand the test of time and understanding the reality that we are in 21st century and national boundaries are not to be redrawn but to be made irrelevant. 

[NameGoesHere]

On topic, I am not sure whether Kohli's attitude is any different from what it was a generation or more ago.  The only change is that he's living under the media microscope, which means that a lot of what he says tends to get reported.

 

I remember, as a reporter in India, watching a game in the 90s in Delhi when Wasim Akram, even then very popular in India, was subjected to MC and BC chants and jeers (far more incendiary than usual) that would make your blood boil.  All he did was fold his hands and ask them to desist. We were good/bad/ ugly Indians back then too.

 

I was a witness to how the IT industry in India was built- how our presently respected software moguls made any and all promises to the feranghee to get their business. "Customer to kuch bhi bol do" was the mantra of one owner/ ceo!  That too was good (perhaps brilliant sales strategy)/ bad/ ugly too.  

 

In the 70s our institutions were sold out to foreigners- USSR and USA.  We were the same good/bad/ugly back then.

 

ll that has changed is that we have more money, are more visible and therefore more open to being criticised. 

 

Vadarajan should stop the moaning and groaning and focus on the real ugliness in India, the disgusting garbage on the streets, the callous treatment of street children, broken medical system.  But hey cricket and Kohli are easier targets.

 

F@ck off.

[NameGoesHere]

12 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

That's the entire world, my friend.

 

 

I disagree.  Delhi has a peculiar way of getting straight to it, that I found nowhere else in the world.

[Vilander]

13 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

 

The world is not a community. The world is a place where nation states compete for advantage.

 

Does being Indian actually mean something? I'd like to think it does.

 

Keep believing in your utopian ideals though, i'm sure you'll find a lot of agreement among other self-proclaimed intellectuals.

lol 

[Vilander]

25 minutes ago, NameGoesHere said:

But hey cricket and Kohli are easier targets.

he wants eyeballs. But the whole outrage is manufactured.

[NameGoesHere]

19 minutes ago, BeardedAladdin said:

The difference you describe is phoniness.

 

It comes from a policy of political correctness; a behaviour developed in western countries as a means of keeping a hierarchical population united under the perception of equality.

 

Its easier to rule over people when you don't remind them of their 'aukaat'. In india, this political correctness does not exist.

It's a very interesting point of view, and makes me think. I'm not sure if I agree, but I can accept it's a valid POV.

 

Good discussion. Thanks.

[NameGoesHere]

9 minutes ago, Vilander said:

he wants eyeballs. But the whole outrage is manufactured.

Yeah, that's exactly right. 

 

I've noticed it happens to a lot of desi writers who spend spend sufficient time abroad.  They don't have enough insights on real issues in India, so react to and analyze the 'surface froth'.

[Vilander]

22 minutes ago, NameGoesHere said:

Yeah, that's exactly right. 

 

I've noticed it happens to a lot of desi writers who spend spend sufficient time abroad.  They don't have enough insights on real issues in India, so react to and analyze the 'surface froth'.

definitely shallow. May be he is writing about something else but using Kohli as a front to sell his article. Couldnt care if the author is non resident or otherwise, too much attention given to his theatrical outrage already in this thread any way.

[sandeep]

39 minutes ago, Vilander said:

he wants eyeballs. But the whole outrage is manufactured.

That's his Dhandha.  He has to sell his words.   

[Khota]

3 hours ago, beetle said:

How many players have we seen showing the middle finger till now or publicly and unapologitically mouth profanity. Other than praveen kumar's famous video ....only kohli.

Others may do it privately or impulsively...but no one does it knowingly when they know the mike can catch it or the camera is on them.

 

Dravid may be a good influence but it is more than that.

 

They all lose it sometime. To say that the behavior of others is better than Kohli is not right. Indians have been spoiled by Dravid, Sachin, Laxman etc. Those guys were never the norm but more like an exception. Real sports is war and is dirty. I will give a pass to Kohli on that. I personally dont approve it though.

What I would never forgive Kohli for is the loss of CT and then laughing and carrying on. Similarly the 2-1 loss in SA. This was all on Kohli and he should be responsible.