Quinton de Kock ruled out of the remaining ODIs and T20I series against India due to a wrist injury

[adi B]

1 minute ago, BeautifulGame said:

Told you so, we will be smashing SA in ODIs.Our bowling is just too good .

Hmm very surprised by our good batting performance,bowling I expected to do well ,we are becoming a bowling powerhouse under kohli. They really miss abdv ,Miller and duminy are getting fooled by our leggies 

[Gollum]

@mancalledsting In Jo'berg Kohli played very well. But Pujara played equally well in the 1st innings (in his own laboured way but got the job done), Vijay and Rahane played well in the 2nd innings and Bhuvi played well in both innings. From SA Amla, Elgar and Rabada had good outings with the bat. You make it sound as if Kohli played the GOAT innings where no one else could lay bat on ball !!! You claim that Kohli raised the bar with that innings alone  where others scored low...

Answer these 2 questions:

1. Who had the highest runs in that match?

2. Who had the highest runs in an innings in that match? 

 

Kohli was dropped twice in the 1st innings but I never take those into account because for me only the runs matter, no matter how ugly they come. I don't think he was even the best batsman of that match, it was Amla. Elgar had the best individual innings (marginally), also he carried the bat as an opener which is very rare. Kohli was our best batsman in that test, I respect what he did but can't say he did something which no other batsman could do or something which can not be repeated by his peers. You seriously think Smith can't do what Pujara/Rahane/Elgar/Amla did in that test? He may or may not but you can't say dead cert that Smith would have failed there, you are simply speculating. 

 

Are you seriously comparing Rohit's ODI exploits with Smith's test exploits. Rohit no doubt is a good ODI batsman but he hasn't delivered in all major countries. Smith's record is beyond reproach. He hasn't scored all runs on pattas, every country has a characteristic nature and having a well balanced record is a creditable achievement. Besides unlike ODI cricket, test wickets across the world haven't been flattened out so much. Smith being an Aussie did something in India whose equivalent very few batsmen in history are capable of doing. For an Asian batsman doing well in SA is a big achievement, same applies to the goras in SC. Pitches were slightly on the difficult side and what did Smith do against spinners of the highest class like Ashwin, Jadeja and Kuldeep? 3 100s, more than entire Indian team combined, 499 runs where Kohli managed 46 in 6 !!!! BTW he outscored both the Indian innings in Pune with that 100. You can talk about dropped catches or a comfy lead when he came to bat 2nd time around but the numbers are there before you. Kohli may have scored 95 runs in the 2 innings in Jo'berg but Smith outscored entire Indian innings in Pune, I don't recall even Sachin or Lara exhibiting such dominance. 

 

In England a batsman gets tested because of swing in the air and swing is irrespective of pitch. Kohli failed the swing test but Smith aced it. Even in his debut series in 2010 when he was a leggie he batted decently well against swing in one of the innings coming late in the order. Kohli doesn't have to prove his worth on green decks, he needs to show he can handle the movement in the air. VVS and GR Vishwanath both were brilliant against seam but floundered badly when there was movement in the air, no wonder both failed in England even on flat decks. Smith scored runs in Eng on Southampton 2014 type pitches, not pattas like you are trying to portray. He may have gone missing on a couple of difficult tracks but in the dead rubber he showed he can bat there. The argument that Smith made hay only on dead pattas in 2015 is proposed by people who want to find flaws in Smith's career, they can't attack him anywhere else, so this is the only resort. All matches in 2015 Ashes had results, there was no Trent Bridge 2014 type fiasco where even Anderson and Shami got 50s.....even the so called flat wickets of 2015 Ashes were good wickets where forcing a result was possible. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Gollum

[BeautifulGame]

1 minute ago, adi B said:

Hmm very surprised by our good batting performance,bowling I expected to do well ,we are becoming a bowling powerhouse under kohli. They really miss abdv ,Miller and duminy are getting fooled by our leggies 

If not mistaken even  AB has had  against leg spin as well particularly if it isn't a road.

 

Only Faf is genuinely quality against spinners even if it's turning in shorter formats imo

 

Yeah they miss De Villiers and he might have made it tougher but we still would have won the series.SA bowling is nothing special apart from Rabada.Reality is 3 out of their 5 bowlers is pretty poor and Morkel is past it as well.And we have 3 genuinely world class bowlers in ODI with Kuldeep coming up as well.That sort gulf in quality would have shown regardless of AB injury i think.

[adi B]

1 minute ago, BeautifulGame said:

If not mistaken even  AB has had  against leg spin as well particularly if it isn't a road.

 

Only Faf is genuinely quality against spinners even if it's turning in shorter formats imo

 

Yeah they miss De Villiers and he might have made it tougher but we still would have won the series.SA bowling is nothing special apart from Rabada.Reality is 3 out of their 5 bowlers is pretty poor and Morkel is past it as well.And we have 3 genuinely world class bowlers in ODI with Kuldeep coming up as well.That sort gulf in quality would have shown regardless of AB injury i think.

I think our spinners are the biggest difference and so is our death bowling because this is a saf team which won 17 odis consecutively at home .They haven't faced this type of variety in bowling attack 

[Gollum]

@mancalledsting   Search criteria: 'good bowling attack, quick bowler friendly conditions as evidenced by low scores of other players who are otherwise considered peers'.

 

 

I got only 1 result applying your criteria, only 1 in the entire history of cricket http://www.espncricinfo.com/series/16540/scorecard/63557/england-vs-west-indies-1st-test-west-indies-tour-of-england-1991/

 

Gooch 154* against WI in Leeds, 1991. 

[Khota]

It would not make any difference in the final outcome. They are bad.

[Cricketics]

Pandya, Jadhav and Rahane after hearing another saffie ain’t playing. 

 

[Vijy]

On 2/5/2018 at 1:31 PM, Gollum said:

@mancalledsting In Jo'berg Kohli played very well. But Pujara played equally well in the 1st innings (in his own laboured way but got the job done), Vijay and Rahane played well in the 2nd innings and Bhuvi played well in both innings. From SA Amla, Elgar and Rabada had good outings with the bat. You make it sound as if Kohli played the GOAT innings where no one else could lay bat on ball !!! You claim that Kohli raised the bar with that innings alone  where others scored low...

Answer these 2 questions:

1. Who had the highest runs in that match?

2. Who had the highest runs in an innings in that match? 

 

Kohli was dropped twice in the 1st innings but I never take those into account because for me only the runs matter, no matter how ugly they come. I don't think he was even the best batsman of that match, it was Amla. Elgar had the best individual innings (marginally), also he carried the bat as an opener which is very rare. Kohli was our best batsman in that test, I respect what he did but can't say he did something which no other batsman could do or something which can not be repeated by his peers. You seriously think Smith can't do what Pujara/Rahane/Elgar/Amla did in that test? He may or may not but you can't say dead cert that Smith would have failed there, you are simply speculating. 

 

Are you seriously comparing Rohit's ODI exploits with Smith's test exploits. Rohit no doubt is a good ODI batsman but he hasn't delivered in all major countries. Smith's record is beyond reproach. He hasn't scored all runs on pattas, every country has a characteristic nature and having a well balanced record is a creditable achievement. Besides unlike ODI cricket, test wickets across the world haven't been flattened out so much. Smith being an Aussie did something in India whose equivalent very few batsmen in history are capable of doing. For an Asian batsman doing well in SA is a big achievement, same applies to the goras in SC. Pitches were slightly on the difficult side and what did Smith do against spinners of the highest class like Ashwin, Jadeja and Kuldeep? 3 100s, more than entire Indian team combined, 499 runs where Kohli managed 46 in 6 !!!! BTW he outscored both the Indian innings in Pune with that 100. You can talk about dropped catches or a comfy lead when he came to bat 2nd time around but the numbers are there before you. Kohli may have scored 95 runs in the 2 innings in Jo'berg but Smith outscored entire Indian innings in Pune, I don't recall even Sachin or Lara exhibiting such dominance. 

 

In England a batsman gets tested because of swing in the air and swing is irrespective of pitch. Kohli failed the swing test but Smith aced it. Even in his debut series in 2010 when he was a leggie he batted decently well against swing in one of the innings coming late in the order. Kohli doesn't have to prove his worth on green decks, he needs to show he can handle the movement in the air. VVS and GR Vishwanath both were brilliant against seam but floundered badly when there was movement in the air, no wonder both failed in England even on flat decks. Smith scored runs in Eng on Southampton 2014 type pitches, not pattas like you are trying to portray. He may have gone missing on a couple of difficult tracks but in the dead rubber he showed he can bat there. The argument that Smith made hay only on dead pattas in 2015 is proposed by people who want to find flaws in Smith's career, they can't attack him anywhere else, so this is the only resort. All matches in 2015 Ashes had results, there was no Trent Bridge 2014 type fiasco where even Anderson and Shami got 50s.....even the so called flat wickets of 2015 Ashes were good wickets where forcing a result was possible. 

Very true. Not a lot more one can ask from Smith - sure, he could have done somewhat better in Eng against a rampant Broad and sure he could have milked Bangladeshs for more runs, etc. But these are minor quibbles in a stellar record.