King Kohli vs Sir Viv in ODIs

[Gollum]

Viv once got hit on the face by Rodney Hogg in Australia, next ball was hooked for a huge six and the King went on to destroy the quick in the rest of the innings.

 

Contrast that to Sachin in Faisalabad 2006 (a patta with scores 588, 603, 490/8 sec) who after copping a few blows by Shoaib on his shoulder and helmet ran off the pitch even after the umpire declared not out, when the replays rolled out it was clear that that was not out, yet SRT didn't have the courage to stay put.

 

He isn't alone, all modern day players have less guts than the older generation, in fact even the modern society is very cowardly if you compare with 50 years back, forget the medieval ages when men had big balls. Look at your parents or grandparents and compare them to yourself, they had more capacity for pain, more endurance, more guts and knew the meaning of struggle. 

[FischerTal]

21 minutes ago, Gollum said:

He is rated very very highly, no? Viru, Smith, Cook, Langer, Warner may have similar stats as him and Hayden better stats but no one ever disputes Gavaskar's position in an all time XI. 

 

And he wore skull caps, not helmets. Ofc lesser protection than helmet but still not enough protection, Marshall almost killed him with a bouncer once. Imran pleaded before him after that incident to switch to helmets because he was a good friend of Sunny and seriously concerned, Sunny said every great batsman has one such incident and he had had his. Very difficult to bat without helmet no matter what ICF experts here say...when there is a real fear of getting killed your feet stop moving after a few bouncers and btw bouncers were liberally used back then, none of this bouncer limit nonsense we have these days. And it is not just helmet, many of the old timers wore no chest guard, arm guard, thigh pad, shin pad either. 

i dont see what helmets have to do with batting ability. its not kohli or any other modern cricketer's fault that they live an era where wearing helmets is pretty much the rule. 

[vvvslaxman]

Virat Kohli’s attitude is as ruthless as Viv Richards: Alvin Kallicharran

https://www.crictracker.com/virat-kohlis-attitude-is-as-ruthless-as-viv-richards-alvin-kallicharran/

 

India skipper Virat Kohli has been in sublime form in the ongoing ODI series against South Africa. Combined with his aggression and dexterity, Kohli’s performance has been right from the top drawer. In the three matches that have been played, the 29-year-old scored centuries on two occasion and a 46 not out, playing a pivotal role to guide India over the rope in each instance.

Lauding the batting dynamo for his efforts, one of cricket’s all-time greats and former captain of the West Indies team, Alvin Kallicharran compared him to the great Vivian Richards. Chief guest at a cricket tournament organized in UP’s Pilibhit, he revealed to TOI that he never misses a chance to watch Kohli play.

 

Both Kohli and Richards portray similar attributes- a fearless attitude with an audacious batting approach. Speaking on the same lines, Kallicharran who has played with Richards said, “The attitude is strong in both. I am one person who wouldn’t like to compare players. But Kohli’s attitude is as ruthless as Viv’s was. Kohli seems to have some of those qualities. He is a successful captain. As a batsman, he is a phenomenon. Always hungry. His consistency is tremendous.”

 

Kohli smashes records

After being stuck with poor fortunes in the longer format, the Virat Kohli-led side came back strong as they registered a hat-trick of wins against the Proteas. And it was the skipper who once again led the attack in the 3rd ODI with a scintillating 160 to take the visitors to a comfortable total of 303

With the majestic ton, Kohli also shattered a host of records. He went past Sourav Ganguly’s (127 in Johannesburg in 2001) in the list of highest individual scores by an Indian batsman against South Africa in the rainbow nation. The 29-year-old also became the second opposition captain to score 150 runs in South Africa (the 1st being Ricky Ponting in 2006 at Johannesburg).

This also marks his 54th International century which makes him the outright 5th-most prolific century-maker in international cricket

Edited February 10, 2018 by vvvslaxman

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, FischerTal said:

i dont see what helmets have to do with batting ability. its not kohli or any other modern cricketer's fault that they live an era where wearing helmets is pretty much the rule. 

Even in school level they do.

[Tattieboy]

9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Viv once got hit on the face by Rodney Hogg in Australia, next ball was hooked for a huge six and the King went on to destroy the quick in the rest of the innings.

 

Contrast that to Sachin in Faisalabad 2006 (a patta with scores 588, 603, 490/8 sec) who after copping a few blows by Shoaib on his shoulder and helmet ran off the pitch even after the umpire declared not out, when the replays rolled out it was clear that that was not out, yet SRT didn't have the courage to stay put.

 

He isn't alone, all modern day players have less guts than the older generation, in fact even the modern society is very cowardly if you compare with 50 years back, forget the medieval ages when men had big balls. Look at your parents or grandparents and compare them to yourself, they had more capacity for pain, more endurance, more guts and knew the meaning of struggle. 

Expect a barrage of bouncers 

[kira]

35 minutes ago, Gollum said:

You do realize Viv averages more than Sachin at higher SR in an era of lower average scores. 90s Sachin was inferior in these 2 parameters, 2000s Sachin was inferior in these 2 parameters. Assuming Kohli is better than Viv because of better stats, how is Sachin a league above Viv with inferior stats? Moreover Viv scored a match winning 100 in a WC F while Sachin choked in both his finals. 

You do realise that sachin started his career as 16 year old, you do realize that sachin has almost 12k runs more than viv, you do realize that sachin faced better bowlers than viv, you do realize only nostaligia faggots keep bringing the pathetic no helmet BS to defend their god, you do realize that viv played from a far more stronger team than sachin which gave him more opportunities to dominate? Wait you don't realize anything which is why I never waste my time on your posts 

[kira]

17 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

It is not as to whether Sachin would not have succeeded with out helmets or not. It is as to whether he would have succeeded in the levels that turned out to be  in the end.That is the question.Keep in mind Viv's era was much more bowler friendly in every sense.I think you are well aware of the treatment ENG batsmen especially Brian Close got from the 1976 Windies bowlers.My  opinions on Viv and Sachin are based on those sorts of matters.

If sachin had played in viv's era then all you guys would have been asking viv who? viv made merry when odi cricket wasn't taken seriously by the players

[vvvslaxman]

12 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Viv once got hit on the face by Rodney Hogg in Australia, next ball was hooked for a huge six and the King went on to destroy the quick in the rest of the innings.

 

Contrast that to Sachin in Faisalabad 2006 (a patta with scores 588, 603, 490/8 sec) who after copping a few blows by Shoaib on his shoulder and helmet ran off the pitch even after the umpire declared not out, when the replays rolled out it was clear that that was not out, yet SRT didn't have the courage to stay put.

 

He isn't alone, all modern day players have less guts than the older generation, in fact even the modern society is very cowardly if you compare with 50 years back, forget the medieval ages when men had big balls. Look at your parents or grandparents and compare them to yourself, they had more capacity for pain, more endurance, more guts and knew the meaning of struggle. 

I slightly disagree there. Barely couple of weeks back M Vijay and Kohli got hit on the knuckles, body several times and weathered through tough time. I remember Dhoni got hit flush on the back of his head by a beamer i think from Akhtar and smashed him for 18 runs in one over. It happened in the same series when Sachin got hit.  Same way Sachin got hit on the head by Akram in one of the one dayer in mid 90s when he was new as an opener. He just hoicked him over long leg for a six. 

[kira]

Even a bowling allrounder like kapil dev smashed bowlers of viv's era at a better strike rate than viv, even a phateechar player like zaheer abbas managed to get similar stats like viv and here some nostaligia faggots would have us believe that viv did something out of this world. Facepalm isn't enough for their stupidity 

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, kira said:

Even a bowling allrounder like kapil dev smashed bowlers of viv's era at a better strike rate than viv, even a phateechar player like zaheer abbas managed to get similar stats like viv and here some nostaligia faggots would have us believe that viv did something out of this world. Facepalm isn't enough for their stupidity 

I watched all these guys live. Viv, Kapil. Infact Kapil was the most outrageous stroke player i saw from the 80s. He would hook a fast bowler on one leg, half balanced for six.  You see these Dhoni's helicopter shots right? Kapil used to play with similar action on the ground against yorkers. He smashed Alan Donald for 4 with that shot in 1992 world cup. A pitch perfect yorker went for 4. He did grave injustice to his batting talent. He never took his batting seriously. He even paid penalty for that. THey dropped him for a bad shot in a Test match.

[putrevus]

What a load of crap, Sachin was as courageous as any who have played this game. He would not even flinch when he got hit would stare into bowler.I have critiqued Sachin on not justifying his talent but he was superman who was fearless.

[kira]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

I watched all these guys live. Viv, Kapil. Infact Kapil was the most outrageous stroke player i saw from the 80s. He would hook a fast bowler on one leg, half balanced for six.  You see these Dhoni's helicopter shots right? Kapil used to play with similar action on the ground against yorkers. He smashed Alan Donald for 4 with that shot in 1992 world cup. A pitch perfect yorker went for 4. He did grave injustice to his batting talent. He never took his batting seriously. He even paid penalty for that. THey dropped him for a bad shot in a Test match.

I know how good kapil was but these nostalgia faggots can't stop overrating their lord and savior, they make it sound like no one could dominate the bowlers of the 80s without helmets like viv. The hyperbole has gone out of control, I can easily put a filter and pick a phase out of sachin's career which will be greater than viv's entire career and sachin's average * strike rate combo would be way higher than viv. These idiots don't realise that average of 45 at strike rate of 86 over a sample set of 18 freaking thousand runs is way more insane than viv's strike rate over a partly 7k runs.

Edited February 10, 2018 by kira

[Gollum]

1 minute ago, vvvslaxman said:

I slightly disagree there. Barely couple of weeks back M Vijay and Kohli got hit on the knuckles, body several times and weathered through tough time. I remember Dhoni got hit flush on the back of his head by a beamer i think from Akhtar and smashed him for 18 runs in one over. It happened in the same series when Sachin got hit.  Same way Sachin got hit on the head by Akram in one of the one dayer in mid 90s when he was new as an opener. He just hoicked him over long leg for a six. 

Dhoni still got hit on the helmet, not directly on the head...getting hit on unprotected regions is entirely different. 

 

I am not downplaying just Sachin or some XYZ from India, my argument stands for all modern day players. Look at 2013-14 Johnson, English batsmen were running away scared because they couldn't handle his short pitched stuff. Broad got hit flush on the face once by Aaron and it seems he forgot batting after that, yet to recover mentally. Contrast this to 1974 Ashes in Australia when Thommo and Lillee with their intimidatory short pitch bowling were making English batsmen buckle. You thought Brian Close had it rough? Check out what Thommo/Lillee did to David Lloyd, for all purposes they were trying to kill him, hit him where no one likes to be hit and that was the end of his career, at least mentally....that's when the term 'Ugly Australians' was coined. And David Lloyd wasn't a jester with the bat like he tries to portray in media .... he knew how to bat alright. When injuries mounted guess who they called to the rescue? A 42 year old Colin Cowdrey who had retired from test cricket 4 years earlier. The legend that he is he, the borderline obese, out of touch middle aged Cowdrey showed what guts is in his comeback match in WACA (old one, not the feathered of recent times). No helmet, no chest guard, no arm guard, no thigh pad and 2 blokes who wanted to hurt him very bad on the quickest pitch on the globe...he may not have had runs to show for his efforts but he showed he had big balls, played a lot of deliveries and showed the younger ones how to get behind the line of the ball no matter how scary. That is what guts is, not what the modern era rockstars exhibit. Jimmy himself copped many blows but came back every single time, you think there is any modern day Indian batsman comparable to Jimmy in the courage department?

[lamellavig]

4 minutes ago, kira said:

I know how good kapil was but these nostalgia faggots can't stop overrating their lord and savior, they make it sound like no one could dominate the bowlers of the 90s without helmets like viv. The hyperbole has gone out of control, I can easily put a filter and pick a phase out of sachin's career which will be greater than viv's entire career and sachin's average * strike rate combo would be way higher than viv. These idiots don't realise that average of 45 at strike rate of 86 over a sample set of 18 freaking thousand runs is way more insane than viv's strike rate over a partly 7k runs.

Remember that you are talking about Viv Richards. VIV. The name itself shows that he is greater than Tendulkar. Show some respect. 

[vvvslaxman]

4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Dhoni still got hit on the helmet, not directly on the head...getting hit on unprotected regions is entirely different. 

 

I am not downplaying just Sachin or some XYZ from India, my argument stands for all modern day players. Look at 2013-14 Johnson, English batsmen were running away scared because they couldn't handle his short pitched stuff. Broad got hit flush on the face once by Aaron and it seems he forgot batting after that, yet to recover mentally. Contrast this to 1974 Ashes in Australia when Thommo and Lillee with their intimidatory short pitch bowling were making English batsmen buckle. You thought Brian Close had it rough? Check out what Thommo/Lillee did to David Lloyd, for all purposes they were trying to kill him, hit him where no one likes to be hit and that was the end of his career, at least mentally....that's when the term 'Ugly Australians' was coined. And David Lloyd wasn't a jester with the bat like he tries to portray in media .... he knew how to bat alright. When injuries mounted guess who they called to the rescue? A 42 year old Colin Cowdrey who had retired from test cricket 4 years earlier. The legend that he is he, the borderline obese, out of touch middle aged Cowdrey showed what guts is in his comeback match in WACA (old one, not the feathered of recent times). No helmet, no chest guard, no arm guard, no thigh pad and 2 blokes who wanted to hurt him very bad on the quickest pitch on the globe...he may not have had runs to show for his efforts but he showed he had big balls, played a lot of deliveries and showed the younger ones how to get behind the line of the ball no matter how scary. That is what guts is, not what the modern era rockstars exhibit. Jimmy himself copped many blows but came back every single time, you think there is any modern day Indian batsman comparable to Jimmy in the courage department?

No Dhoni hit on the back of head where helmet was not covering him

[vvvslaxman]

Viv always holds special place. But no need to put down Kohli with few assumptions. With the kind of work ethic Kohli has he would have dominated any bowling in any era. If at all anyone Kohli might have struggled for a bit that would be against dibbly dobblers like Derek Pringle or sultan of swing Richard Hadlee. But he would eventually figure a way to counter the swing. 

[kira]

Just like nostaliga faggots like to extrapolate how modern day palyers would have done without helmets, let's extrapolate how viv would have done against the modern day fielding, his lappas would have been caught by today's fielders, his technique ( or the lack of it) would have been exposed by the numerous analysts, maybe he would have turned into another afridi if viv played today

[Jimmy Cliff]

Can't outperform Dhawan in the tournaments that matter, but is supposedly better than the GOAT .

[Tattieboy]

It's a bit silly trying indifferent eras to say who the best was.

Having been lucky enough to see both throughout both  careers from the start I will say they are both Gladiators , probably add Ian Botham to them in that sense in my life time.

Both of them had/ has qualities others didn't .

Take the West Indian and Indian bias  for their man out if it , what both have  outside these countries is that spectators would pay good money to watch them , both excite , both have a presence, both want to dominate, both have bowlers scared to bowl to them, both absolutely love the challenge , scoring runs, driving opposition bowlers into submission . That's not to say others  didn't but those two live to dominate . 

I am thankful I have seen both 

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, FischerTal said:

i dont see what helmets have to do with batting ability. its not kohli or any other modern cricketer's fault that they live an era where wearing helmets is pretty much the rule. 

It's hollow masculinity, equivalent to an F1 driver claiming he can drive at top speed without helmet, it may look daring to some but stupid to many.