King Kohli vs Sir Viv in ODIs

[urnotserious]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Viv once got hit on the face by Rodney Hogg in Australia, next ball was hooked for a huge six and the King went on to destroy the quick in the rest of the innings.

 

Contrast that to Sachin in Faisalabad 2006 (a patta with scores 588, 603, 490/8 sec) who after copping a few blows by Shoaib on his shoulder and helmet ran off the pitch even after the umpire declared not out, when the replays rolled out it was clear that that was not out, yet SRT didn't have the courage to stay put.

 

He isn't alone, all modern day players have less guts than the older generation, in fact even the modern society is very cowardly if you compare with 50 years back, forget the medieval ages when men had big balls. Look at your parents or grandparents and compare them to yourself, they had more capacity for pain, more endurance, more guts and knew the meaning of struggle. 

Haha Viv is the best batsman in ODI ever despite having way way inferior performances because you perceive that he had guts. LOL. Where do you get this stuff?

 

Your man crush for Viv over his bulging muscles =/= him being the best ODI batsman. 

 

Averages only 30 against Pak, only 11 total centuries despite playing in tuk tuk era some of it with 60 overs a side. 

 

Today's players are mentally and physically tougher. 

[MechEng]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Dhoni still got hit on the helmet, not directly on the head...getting hit on unprotected regions is entirely different. 

 

I am not downplaying just Sachin or some XYZ from India, my argument stands for all modern day players. Look at 2013-14 Johnson, English batsmen were running away scared because they couldn't handle his short pitched stuff. Broad got hit flush on the face once by Aaron and it seems he forgot batting after that, yet to recover mentally. Contrast this to 1974 Ashes in Australia when Thommo and Lillee with their intimidatory short pitch bowling were making English batsmen buckle. You thought Brian Close had it rough? Check out what Thommo/Lillee did to David Lloyd, for all purposes they were trying to kill him, hit him where no one likes to be hit and that was the end of his career, at least mentally....that's when the term 'Ugly Australians' was coined. And David Lloyd wasn't a jester with the bat like he tries to portray in media .... he knew how to bat alright. When injuries mounted guess who they called to the rescue? A 42 year old Colin Cowdrey who had retired from test cricket 4 years earlier. The legend that he is he, the borderline obese, out of touch middle aged Cowdrey showed what guts is in his comeback match in WACA (old one, not the feathered of recent times). No helmet, no chest guard, no arm guard, no thigh pad and 2 blokes who wanted to hurt him very bad on the quickest pitch on the globe...he may not have had runs to show for his efforts but he showed he had big balls, played a lot of deliveries and showed the younger ones how to get behind the line of the ball no matter how scary. That is what guts is, not what the modern era rockstars exhibit. Jimmy himself copped many blows but came back every single time, you think there is any modern day Indian batsman comparable to Jimmy in the courage department?

Make it clear Gollum, are spectators civilized people to see a game of cricket or bloodlusty savages yearning for batsmen to get injured to display how tough they are? It's not as if it's a fight between good and evil where enduring violence has a higher cause.

[Gollum]

15 minutes ago, MechEng said:

Make it clear Gollum, are spectators civilized people to see a game of cricket or bloodlusty savages yearning for batsmen to get injured to display how tough they are? It's not as if it's a fight between good and evil where enduring violence has a higher cause.

Of course not, but players of yesteryear deserve more credit for playing with threat of physical injury looming over their heads. I am not advocating for modern day players to to play without protection, just that there is a difference between the efforts of Jimmy in getting his 100s (blood, broken bones, serious injuries) vs someone like a Vijay getting his 100s in today's cricket. Just give credit to them is all I say. 

[urnotserious]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Of course not, but players of yesteryear deserve more credit for playing with threat of physical injury looming over their heads. I am not advocating for modern day players to to play without protection, just that there is a difference between the efforts of Jimmy in getting his 100s (blood, broken bones, serious injuries) vs someone like a Vijay getting his 100s in today's cricket. Just give credit to them is all I say. 

OK, given.

 

Now, you give credit to today's players for playing 3 times as much cricket with more analysis, better fielders and playing against professional sides as opposed to bowling sides that included Madanlal and Roger Binny. 

 

Even with all that, Kohli averages 10 runs more PER inning even after scoring almost 3000 MORE runs than Viv. BTW, Kohli scored another 75 today against one of the best fielding sides in SA against whom Viv never had to play. 

 

This comparison is unfair to Viv, he should more likely go up against batsmen from Pakistan.

 

 

Edited February 10, 2018 by urnotserious

[vvvslaxman]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Of course not, but players of yesteryear deserve more credit for playing with threat of physical injury looming over their heads. I am not advocating for modern day players to to play without protection, just that there is a difference between the efforts of Jimmy in getting his 100s (blood, broken bones, serious injuries) vs someone like a Vijay getting his 100s in today's cricket. Just give credit to them is all I say. 

Lot of tailenders survived in that era. Like Balwinder sandhu who walked in at 104/6 played over 2 or 3 hours to make 68 at Kingston against Roberts, Holding, Garner, Marshall. If you have good technique you can survive with or without helmet.    Nowadays even at college level they use helmet. Basically a precaution that's it. Doesn't mean their skill level is any less.  Like all sports there is going to be natural evolution in cricket as well. So basically we go by how good they are compared to their contemporaries. Kohli's only challenge in ODI is ABDV. 

[Gollum]

25 minutes ago, urnotserious said:

Haha Viv is the best batsman in ODI ever despite having way way inferior performances because you perceive that he had guts. LOL. Where do you get this stuff?

 

Your man crush for Viv over his bulging muscles =/= him being the best ODI batsman. 

 

Averages only 30 against Pak, only 11 total centuries despite playing in tuk tuk era some of it with 60 overs a side. 

 

Today's players are mentally and physically tougher. 

In Sachin's career the 2 best ODI teams were Aus and SA, mind telling me his average against these 2 giants in their home pitches? (HINT: 30 in one where he has played 25 matches, 25 in the other one where he has played 22 matches) I don't want to insult my favourite player SRT but his record against Pollock, Mcgrath, Donald, Villiers etc doesn't look pretty, no wonder he got violated in these 2 countries. 2 100s in 47 matches See you aren't the only one who can use statsguru. Every player can be made to look bad by selective use of stats. Viv averages 56 in Aus against Aus, similarly 78 in Eng, 50 in India, 133 in NZ, 40 in Pak..........don't really want to lay out all his stats but since you pointed out his record against Pak, only fair all the data is laid forward.

 

For the umpteenth time average scores were low in that era because of many reasons like red duke ball, no fielding restrictions, bouncer rule, bat-ball balance, no pulled in boundary ropes, small bat size, unregulated use of bottle caps etc....if you go through the 1st 2 pages you will find all the reasons. Post 2010 you have more 100s, in 2040 when they pull in boundary ropes to 20m and have 4 compulsory full tosses in every over, there will be more 100s I can assure you...look at Hong Kong cricket sixes. You harping on about less centuries during Viv's time or tuk-tuk era will come and bite you back hard when future generations will call this era tuk tuk era.

 

 

 

[Gollum]

15 minutes ago, urnotserious said:

OK, given.

 

Now, you give credit to today's players for playing 3 times as much cricket with more analysis, better fielders and playing against professional sides as opposed to bowling sides that included Madanlal and Roger Binny. 

 

Even with all that, Kohli averages 10 runs more PER inning even after scoring almost 3000 MORE runs than Viv. BTW, Kohli scored another 75 today against one of the best fielding sides in SA against whom Viv never had to play. 

 

This comparison is unfair to Viv, he should more likely go up against batsmen from Pakistan.

 

 

Stop quoting me in future troll. Putting you on the ignore list. 

[urnotserious]

6 minutes ago, Gollum said:

In Sachin's career the 2 best ODI teams were Aus and SA, mind telling me his average against these 2 giants in their home pitches? (HINT: 30 in one where he has played 25 matches, 25 in the other one where he has played 22 matches) I don't want to insult my favourite player SRT but his record against Pollock, Mcgrath, Donald, Villiers etc doesn't look pretty, no wonder he got violated in these 2 countries. 2 100s in 47 matches See you aren't the only one who can use statsguru. Every player can be made to look bad by selective use of stats. Viv averages 56 in Aus against Aus, similarly 78 in Eng, 50 in India, 133 in NZ, 40 in Pak..........don't really want to lay out all his stats but since you pointed out his record against Pak, only fair all the data is laid forward.

 

For the umpteenth time average scores were low in that era because of many reasons like red duke ball, no fielding restrictions, bouncer rule, bat-ball balance, no pulled in boundary ropes, small bat size, unregulated use of bottle caps etc....if you go through the 1st 2 pages you will find all the reasons. Post 2010 you have more 100s, in 2040 when they pull in boundary ropes to 20m and have 4 compulsory full tosses in every over, there will be more 100s I can assure you...look at Hong Kong cricket sixes. You harping on about less centuries during Viv's time or tuk-tuk era will come and bite you back hard when future generations will call this era tuk tuk era.

 

 

 

Sachin averaged over 35 against both of them has scored 9 centuries just against Aus. 14 against SA and Aus. Viv's TOTAL centuries are 11. TOTAL. LOL. 

 

Viv averaged 30 against Pak despite a career average of 47. He clearly struggled if the bowling line up was missing Madanlal and Chatfield. 

 

Today's conditions are tougher to play, score and be consistent. There are many kinds of toughness, playing professional cricket in these circumstances is one of those. 

[urnotserious]

11 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Stop quoting me in future troll. Putting you on the ignore list. 

No I won't, run away pussy. 

[Gollum]

Wonder why notification pops up even after you put someones on ignore list? And how shameless are people who want to keep indulging in discussions when you have have asked them to GTFO, kitne desperate log hai yaar, pity such people. 

[urnotserious]

Just now, Gollum said:

Wonder why notification pops up even after you put someones on ignore list? And how shameless are people who want to keep indulging in discussions when you have have asked them to GTFO, kitne desperate log hai yaar, pity such people. 

Here's another notification. 

 

Kohli >>> Viv. 

[rtmohanlal]

3 hours ago, kira said:

If sachin had played in viv's era then all you guys would have been asking viv who? viv made merry when odi cricket wasn't taken seriously by the players

I would never be into this  sense less emotional chats with any body at any time. Viv is my 2nd best batsman and Sachin 3rd best of all time.I do firmly believe that the 'sense of head  protection  and hence the confidence to play with out fear' that helmet brings in is huge.That's why Viv is  better in my list.If you do not believe in it, so be it.

[Tattieboy]

6 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

I would never be into this  sense less emotional chats with any body at any time. Viv is my 2nd best batsman and Sachin 3rd best of all time.I do firmly believe that the 'sense of head  protection  and hence the confidence to play with out fear' that helmet brings in is huge.That's why Viv is  better in my list.If you do not believe in it, so be it.

King Viv, long live the King 

[urnotserious]

1 hour ago, rtmohanlal said:

I would never be into this  sense less emotional chats with any body at any time. Viv is my 2nd best batsman and Sachin 3rd best of all time.I do firmly believe that the 'sense of head  protection  and hence the confidence to play with out fear' that helmet brings in is huge.That's why Viv is  better in my list.If you do not believe in it, so be it.

Fear of getting hit in the head vs. fear of disappointing a billion people every single time you get out to bat while your team is crumbling around you. 

 

Not sure why one fear is definitely worse than the other. 

[rtmohanlal]

2 hours ago, urnotserious said:

Fear of getting hit in the head vs. fear of disappointing a billion people every single time you get out to bat while your team is crumbling around you. 

 

Not sure why one fear is definitely worse than the other. 

I agree.That's why I rate Sachin so highly.On one hand  we  are witnessing players  like Trott,Trescothik,Prior,Swann etc etc resigning in the midst of a series, not being able to cop with the pressure of a single series.And it is in such scenario that  Sachin coped with pressure of expectations of billions all thru his career.But yet playing with out a helmet is playing with life( playing with your 'being alive' on this earth). And hence it has to be Viv

[vvvslaxman]

Did you guys see that six against Lungi lol What an outrageous shot that was. You don't see mere mortals play such shots. Everything comes naturally to him. I think Kohli has fully realized his potential. 

[MechEng]

9 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Did you guys see that six against Lungi lol What an outrageous shot that was. You don't see mere mortals play such shots. Everything comes naturally to him. I think Kohli has fully realized his potential. 

He has hit the 'self actualization' zone in Maslow's Heirarchy. 

 

Just wanted to ask since when you've been watching cricket?

[vvvslaxman]

14 minutes ago, MechEng said:

He has hit the 'self actualization' zone in Maslow's Heirarchy. 

 

Just wanted to ask since when you've been watching cricket?

80s

[MechEng]

5 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

80s

Great! How would you describe cricket in 80s, 90s and 2000s?

[Tattieboy]

4 hours ago, urnotserious said:

Fear of getting hit in the head vs. fear of disappointing a billion people every single time you get out to bat while your team is crumbling around you. 

 

Not sure why one fear is definitely worse than the other. 

 

Says someone who obviously hadn't had a  90mph cricket ball around their ears