Hardik Pandya doesn't contribute with bat, lucky to be called all-rounder: Roger Binny

[Straight Drive]

1 hour ago, Khota said:

I am not debating what you said but where this discussion went down was when one of the posters here claimed that Pandya is a better bat than Rohit. That is insanity to the power n. Then that illustrious poster claims that both Ashwin and Bhuvi are better bats than Rohit. At that stage the discussion was in gutters because this poster has endless time to post crap on and on.

I do agree Rohit is a much superior batsman than Hardik in T20, ODI as well as test cricket. To me there is no doubt regarding this comparison. What i do not agree is that Hardik is totally a bits and pieces player as you mentioned. That is why i debated. He is slightly better than bits and pieces player. As i said i would be happy even if he gives Irfan like performances. Once he gets to Irfan's level  then we can think of new targets for him like getting in zone of Kapil. At this point of time, he is not near those two all-rounders. But it is totally wrong to write off a player, which is something that you seem to do. Lets give him a chance to raise him to the performance of Irfan and then Kapil. 

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

Irfan was a much better bowler than Hardik. Statistically it is reflected in his records. The wickets that Irfan takes per innings and Hardik takes is not comparable. The SR also reflects. Subjectively if you ask me, Irfan could swing the ball. I have seen him trouble the likes of Yousuf Youhana and Younis Khan. irfan also had much better control than Hardik. The only aspect hardik was better than irfan is the pace. But at end of the day pace hasn't helped hardik get anywhere near to Irfan thus far.

 

Even the selective SR of 45 is much better than Hardik's 71.1. 

 

It is fine if you think Hardik is better bowler than Irfan, but i would neither agree to it statistically (it's all there to see), neither would i agree subjectively.

 

 

i agree he was, pathan was quality but hus numbers werent gr8

im not saying hardik is a better bowler, neither do i consider him. My whole point is his stats are as good as specilalist so lets end this lynch mobbing of him saying he is neither this neither that

 

Simple he is atlented kid whose number are decent and let him grow. ( he lacks FC experince)

[Ankit_sharma03]

51 minutes ago, Khota said:

Anyone who thinks that Ashwin, Pandya and Bhuvi are better bats than Rohit really does not know cricket. I will keep on bumping this thread when they all bat together. This is hole you have dug so deep for yourself that there is no getting out.

keep screaming whole day ur argument gets naked from those stats

rohit perfomance is way less then them

3 minutes ago, Straight Drive said:

I do agree Rohit is a much superior batsman than Hardik in T20, ODI as well as test cricket.

Why wud compare an opener to a batsman who is batting at 7

if i give his middle order stats pandya wud be beating him

 

in test they are battling for same spot

 

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Ankit_sharma03

[Straight Drive]

6 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

i agree he was, pathan was quality but hus numbers werent gr8

im not saying hardik is a better bowler, neither do i consider him. My whole point is his stats are as good as specilalist so lets end this lynch mobbing of him saying he is neither this neither that

 

Simple he is atlented kid whose number are decent and let him grow. ( he lacks FC experince)

Lets face it. After Kapil, Irfan was the best all-rounder performance wise, even though he was not in Kapils category. Manoj Prabhakar's bowling was not as good as Irfans even though he opened bowling in some matches. That tactic failed and after long time Irfan did the all rounders job much better than anyone else after Kapil. There were no better options. Only Saurav was multikilled player in type of batsman +  medium pace bowler but his bowling was never his strong point in tests. There were no other options. Reetinder was there but he flopped in ODI's and never got to play in tests. However, the strategy for overseas was to find a pace bowling allroudner so we tried Binny later. When Binny flopped , Rishi Dhavan was being spoken about. Thankfully we did not go to Rishi Dhavan in test match. So Irfan was the next best (nowhere in league of Kapil though). 

 

As far as Hardik is concerned he has to prove his talent. He can grow but this growth should not be at the expense of batting average of 31and less than one wicket per innings in tests. Some acceptable performance is desired. he has to perrom better than that. To achieve that he has to maintain teh battign average of 31 (i fear it is on dwonslide) and increase number of wickets per test innigs.

[Straight Drive]

20 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

keep screaming whole day ur argument gets naked from those stats

rohit perfomance is way less then them

Why wud compare an opener to a batsman who is batting at 7

if i give his middle order stats pandya wud be beating him

 

in test they are battling for same spot

 

 

I am not at all interested in debate whether Rohit is better or Hardik. It's fine if you think Hardik is better - everyone has an opinion. Maybe i am wrong, but please do not involve me in debate of Rohit and Hardik as batsmen. Thank you.

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

Lets face it. After Kapil, Irfan was the best all-rounder performance wise, even though he was not in Kapils category. Manoj Prabhakar's bowling was not as good as Irfans even though he opened bowling in some matches. That tactic failed and after long time Irfan did the all rounders job much better than anyone else after Kapil. There were no better options. Only Saurav was multikilled player in type of batsman +  medium pace bowler but his bowling was never his strong point in tests. There were no other options. Reetinder was there but he flopped in ODI's and never got to play in tests. However, the strategy for overseas was to find a pace bowling allroudner so we tried Binny later. When Binny flopped , Rishi Dhavan was being spoken about. Thankfully we did not go to Rishi Dhavan in test match. So Irfan was the next best (nowhere in league of Kapil though). 

 

 

As far as Hardik is concerned he has to prove his talent. He can grow but this growth should not be at the expense of batting average of 31and less than one wicket per innings in tests. Some acceptable performance is desired. he has to perrom better than that. To achieve that he has to maintain teh battign average of 31 (i fear it is on dwonslide) and increase number of wickets per test innigs.

patience , this was his 2nd tour and that SA where greatest of players stats have been hit badly. 

[Straight Drive]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

patience , this was his 2nd tour and that SA where greatest of players stats have been hit badly. 

There is no denying that the matches in SA (be it in series versus India or the ongoing series with Aussies) have been tough to score on. Even the SA bowling is strong as we see in both series. However, these things (good and bad series) have to be factored. We do not remove his performances versus SL because he excelled against a below average test team nowadays. 

[zen]

Since the #6-7 specialist batsman is not setting the scene on fire, the performance requirements for the AR to stay in consideration are not too high. 

 

Again using Rohit as an example, the value of 1500 pts after 25 tests is not that difficult to beat. One would do it by say scoring 1000 runs and picking up 30 wkts for a total of 1600 pts in 25 tests! 

 

The specialists have to pull up their socks to be considered for #6-7 spot, which guys like Pandya have the potential to make their own. To hit 1500 points, a specialist bowler would need 75 wkts to be considered as the 5th bowler. At 3 wkts per game, you are again not adding much vs other specialist bowlers. Additionally,  you are competing with the other 4 probably more qualified bowlers (considered in the team first before the 5th specialist bowler) for wkts! 

 

Specialist bowler selected should be capable of picking up 100 wkts (4 wkts per game. 20 wkts / 5 bowlers) at 25 tests mark.  While the batsmen should ideally be good enough to be around 2000 runs. And still someone like Pandya can have more value points by getting for e.g. 1000 or more runs and picking 50 or more wkts. Or some combination of it!

 

Which is why good all-rounders provide exceptional value. And teams look forward to developing and backing the right potential. Look forward to seeing how Pandya shapes up  

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2018 by zen

[Khota]

4 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

keep screaming whole day ur argument gets naked from those stats

rohit perfomance is way less then them

Why wud compare an opener to a batsman who is batting at 7

if i give his middle order stats pandya wud be beating him

 

in test they are battling for same spot

 

 

Keep posting crap. Those three guys are not even in the same universe as Rohit when it comes to batting.

[Ankit_sharma03]

16 minutes ago, Khota said:

Keep posting crap. Those three guys are not even in the same universe as Rohit when it comes to batting.

kuch nhin milla na Na koi fact, na stat na perfomance...........laga reh dhundh le uski perfomance

yes that universe shud be at home while the test squad plays everywere

[Khota]

6 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

kuch nhin milla na Na koi fact, na stat na perfomance...........laga reh dhundh le uski perfomance

yes that universe shud be at home while the test squad plays everywere

When they play together let us post the runs they score. Fair enough?

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 hours ago, Khota said:

When they play together let us post the runs they score. Fair enough?

Didnt all play In Sa series and all 3 outscored Rohit sharma, same bowler same series ....fair enough

And its shameful that 2 tours of rohit sharma and he has been outscored by non specialist batsman 

[Khota]

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Didnt all play In Sa series and all 3 outscored Rohit sharma, same bowler same series ....fair enough

And its shameful that 2 tours of rohit sharma and he has been outscored by non specialist batsman 

Is 0.3 runs differential called out scoring?

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, Khota said:

Is 0.3 runs differential called out scoring?

u call comparing someone 1st tour to 2nd fair??

he still played a substaintal knock n got wkts, rohit was a liabilty

 

and what about bhuvi n ashwin who oustcored him by an avg of 10 

[Khota]

8 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

u call comparing someone 1st tour to 2nd fair??

he still played a substaintal knock n got wkts, rohit was a liabilty

 

and what about bhuvi n ashwin who oustcored him by an avg of 10 

And when ODI started Rahul settled down and showed his superior batting ability. Rahul was one of the top scorer for India and let me guess pandya was the worst.

 

Now you will say bu but but that was ODI. Hitting in ODI and T20 demonstrates more skill set than tests.

 

Only in your dream world and only there Pandya is a better batsman than Rohit. Like I said keep on arguing and keep on digging a deeper hole.

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, Khota said:

And when ODI started Rahul settled down and showed his superior batting ability. Rahul was one of the top scorer for India and let me guess pandya was the worst.

 

Now you will say bu but but that was ODI. Hitting in ODI and T20 demonstrates more skill set than tests.

 

Only in your dream world and only there Pandya is a better batsman than Rohit. Like I said keep on arguing and keep on digging a deeper hole.

When did Rahul play in Odi  n who said pandya did better with bat in Odi, he failed 

 

1st of all rohit sharma is a failed test cricketer so beating him is not even an achievment n again let me knw what has he done in test cricket.

Pandya has a 100 outside india, rohit doesnt

Pandya has almost a 100 in Sa , rohit doesnt even have a 50

 

Just wait for eng, Aus tour......where rohit also hasnt done much.....ull see pandya doing better

 

actually m demeaning pandya talent by comparing him to a failed test cricketer who has been outscored by tailenders overseas which is the highest benchmark

[zen]

At this point in tests, Pandya is playing one memorable inning per series (and that too overseas), so that is a good start! In batting, he needs to learn to start more cautiously .... VVS was in the form of his life (in fact it was hard to find a batsman with such confidence) in 2004-05 period, but wasted many opportunities due to over-confidence. Where he would go for his shots and get out in 20s-30s. Those 20-30 odd runs would be among the best you would see. And you would wonder what if he had not got out .... We know what happened to Afridi too after he got that quick 100 in LOIs. He was trying to replicate that in every other inning and failing .... Pandya would need to safe guard against such tendencies 

 

Relatively, his bowling is ok (needs improvement). Right now, he appears to be bowling with a defensive mindset (LOI influence?). However, a 5-er (or even a good spell where he is able to pick 2-3 quick wkts) will boost his confidence and encourage him to go for wkts .... He can also be used to make things happen for Ind with the ball by bowling short pitched stuff to unsettle the batsmen. He has pace to be relatively effective in such roles .... He is still in the learning process. I hope, he will get proper guidance 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

Irfan won us Perth test for us. Irfan was a specialist bowler. His batting talent came to be known only later. But his bowling regressed very quickly. He had a very good defensive technique with bat.

[vvvslaxman]

30 minutes ago, zen said:

At this point in tests, Pandya is playing one memorable inning per series (and that too overseas), so that is a good start! In batting, he needs to learn to start more cautiously .... VVS was in the form of his life (in fact it was hard to find a batsman with such confidence) in 2004-05 period, but wasted many opportunities due to over-confidence. Where he would go for his shots and get out in 20s-30s. Those 20-30 odd runs would be among the best you would see. And you would wonder what if he had not got out .... We know what happened to Afridi too after he got that quick 100 in LOIs. He was trying to replicate that in every other inning and failing .... Pandya would need to safe guard against such tendencies 

 

Relatively, his bowling is ok (needs improvement). Right now, he appears to be bowling with a defensive mindset (LOI influence?). However, a 5-er (or even a good spell where he is able to pick 2-3 quick wkts) will boost his confidence and encourage him to go for wkts .... He can also be used to make things happen for Ind with the ball by bowling short pitched stuff to unsettle the batsmen. He has pace to be relatively effective in such roles .... He is still in the learning process. I hope, he will get proper guidance 

 

Pandya has no good stock delivery. Pretty much all of them are back of the length with ball doing almost nothing. He gets wickets on and off. He is slightly less than Stokes at this point.

[Khota]

I hope Pandya is successful but my gut feeling is he will amount to nothing.