First Lady of Pakistan

[KeyboardWarrior]

21 hours ago, sandeep said:

Is it true that Imran's current wife divorced her husband - father of her college age kids -  and convinced Imran to marry her - "for the sake of Pakistan"?  Did she become spiritual before or after her divorce?

she was spiritual before marriage,

and i dont know much about the first part of your question. 

[Stradlater]

6 hours ago, sandeep said:

This is like real-life game of thrones **** right there.

Night is dark and full of terrors Immy mian.

[Asim]

On 8/22/2018 at 11:56 AM, Alam_dar said:

Please note:

 

99.9% Sharia RULES have come through Hadith. 

There is only 0.1% Sharia, which has been written in Quran.

 

Not sure what u want to achieve here by Totally distorting the most fundamental and obvious facts about Quran which even kids know... Quran gives every rule/every single detail that how any Muslim should pass his life, Sunnah practically tells us how to implement on those aspect/rules/recommendations/orders given by Quran and Hadees describes them further, gives additional details/sub-rules but obviously all based on same those Fundamental Quran rules...

Man, even non-Muslims do know this but the way u r putting things is beyond ridiculous, just wonder what u want to achieve...

 

 

On 8/22/2018 at 4:27 PM, JourneyMan said:

One of you says most of the sharia is from the quran, the other one says almost none of it is from the quran.

 

 

[Alam_dar]

5 hours ago, Asim said:

Quran gives every rule/every single detail that how any Muslim should pass his life, Sunnah practically tells us how to implement on those aspect/rules/recommendations/orders given by Quran and Hadees describes them further, gives additional details/sub-rules but obviously all based on same those Fundamental Quran rules...

I am very honest with my opinion:

 

* Even when I was earlier Muslim and believed in Allah from my heart, I wondered upon such CLAIMS from Muslims that Quran is a miracle book. But when I read Quran translation and researched, then it was proven that there was nothing miracle in Quran, but it is perhaps the most incoherent book in the world, and full of scientific mistakes. 

 

* Similar is a claim that Quran gave every rule/every single detail. 

I wonder upon this claim. 

One has to be totally brainwashed and thus totally blind in order to make such claim (I am sorry if Mr. Asim feels it hard, but this is my honest opinion). 

 

I gave a simple example above about placing of hands during prayer. Please show me this detail in Quran. Muhammad prayed 5 times daily whole of his life along with thousands of companions. But despite this, today all 4 Sects of Sunnies places their hands differently during prayer. One is placing under the naval, other above the naval, 3rd on the chest, and the 4th one leaving hands down on the sides during prayer. 

 

Let us the so called "detailed rules" of slavery in Quran. The most of them is permission of RAPE of the slave girls without their consent :

 

Quran (33:50) - "O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those(slaves) your right hand possesses from what Allah has returned to you"

Quran (23:5-6) - "..who abstain from sex, except with those joined to them in the marriage bond, or (the captives) whom their right hands possess..."

Quran (4:24) - "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."

Quran (8:69) - "But (now) enjoy what ye took in war, lawful and good"

Quran (16:75) - "Allah sets forth the Parable (of two men: one) a slave under the dominion of another; He has no power of any sort; and (the other) a man on whom We have bestowed goodly favours from Ourselves, and he spends thereof (freely), privately and publicly: are the two equal? (By no means;) praise be to Allah.'

 

 

OK, Mr. Asim, now it is your turn to please show us the details from Quran about separating the children from slave woman and selling them. 

 

Please show us the ruling in Quran for not raping the slave women ....

[Asim]

4 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I gave a simple example above about placing of hands during prayer. Please show me this detail in Quran. Muhammad prayed 5 times daily whole of his life along with thousands of companions. But despite this, today all 4 Sects of Sunnies places their hands differently during prayer. One is placing under the naval, other above the naval, 3rd on the chest, and the 4th one leaving hands down on the sides during prayer. 

 

Seriously? how naive :)

Follow whichever sect man but do get the core part, what u learn here is: PRAYER itself is important, not the placement of your hands which could vary... like at the end, does that matter if anyone make prayer with closed hands, open hands, straight face or towards sky? DO you really think God would be more interested in ur hand posture than ur khaloos or niyat...

just like FASTING been made Farz, we additionally follow Sunnah by mostly opening it with Khajoor but u can obv do with anything else... Performing Hajj is important, does that matter if u go by air or ship or walk?

 

For any of ur other issues, u can yourself get all the answers if u can put ur bias aside, make some research covering all aspects and putting everything in right perspective... society of 1500 years ago had many worst possible customs, that society wasn't changed overnight, neither does Quran got completed overnight, there were many areas for which teaching got completed taking decades bcz they were practicing it for centuries... e.g. even Drinking wasn't made prohibited all of a sudden, now u can't obv take some teaching from middle and try to make it relevant today...

 

But anyways I am no scholar and my only comment was regarding what u said that Quran just tells us 0.1% of Islamic rules... I mean... I don't think it's even debate-worthy...

 

[KeyboardWarrior]

4 hours ago, Asim said:

I don't think it's even debate-worthy...

 

This.

[Stradlater]

From posting MILF pics to theological debates.

Guys nobody gives a **** about your religious scriptures. Stay on the topic and start posting more P@ki cougar aunty pics .

Thanks.

 

[Alam_dar]

@Asim @KeyboardWarrior

 

For prayer you have an excuse that placing hands not important but good intention is important. 

 

But please ponder upon it, what intention was behind it when millions of slave girls were raped during the last 14 centuries while Quran made it Halal, when millions of children of slave mothers were separated and sold further, breaking the whole slave family for the last 14 centuries .... there is a big big list of crimes against the humanity ... but you say you don't even think these crimes against millions of Humans are debate-worthy.

 

I presented some of these crimes above, but except for placing hand, no other question was answered directly. 

 

I have to stop after the message of Stradlater for any further debate.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Alam_dar

[Vilander]

On 8/25/2018 at 8:54 PM, Asim said:

Not sure what u want to achieve here by Totally distorting the most fundamental and obvious facts about Quran which even kids know... Quran gives every rule/every single detail that how any Muslim should pass his life, Sunnah practically tells us how to implement on those aspect/rules/recommendations/orders given by Quran and Hadees describes them further, gives additional details/sub-rules but obviously all based on same those Fundamental Quran rules...

Man, even non-Muslims do know this but the way u r putting things is beyond ridiculous, just wonder what u want to achieve...

 

 

 

Are you saying the hadith on a girl child of a slave with 2 tooth is inaccurate ? Straight answer please.

[Vilander]

On 8/26/2018 at 2:42 PM, Stradlater said:

From posting MILF pics to theological debates.

Guys nobody gives a **** about your religious scriptures. Stay on the topic and start posting more P@ki cougar aunty pics .

Thanks.

 

As long as no religious sentiment is not unjustly hurt i think its a constructive discussion. We might find that Islam does not say it at all and is clean in this matter..its possible why censure discussion if there is nothing to fear.

[asterix]

:facepalm:From posting MILF pics to theological debates. Guys nobody gives a **** about your religious scriptures. Stay on the topic and start posting more P@ki cougar aunty pics .

Thanks.

 

 

You imagined about Mrs. Khan... Didn't you?

 

This is the reason, why she's mostly in Burqa... Because of you perverts...

 

[Asim]

7 hours ago, Vilander said:

Are you saying the hadith on a girl child of a slave with 2 tooth is inaccurate ? Straight answer please.

YES...

(p.s. furthermore it's not even a relevant subject in today's Islamic world, check it yourself; pre-Islam situation, transformation 1500 yrs ago and status today)

Edited August 28, 2018 by Asim

[Alam_dar]

3 hours ago, Asim said:

11 hours ago, Vilander said:

Are you saying the hadith on a girl child of a slave with 2 tooth is inaccurate ? Straight answer please.

YES...

Brother, I wonder how could you make such a big Blunder?

 

The reality is:

 

* All the Muslim Hadith Masters are unanimous for the last 14 centuries that these Ahadith about separating and selling of slave mother/child are "Sahih (authentic)".

* There is absolutely nothing in Quran about it (as usual). Only instructions about slaves in Quran is this that you are allowed to rape them after capturing the women and making them prisoners.

* For the last 14 centuries, ALL Muslims (Ijma) have been separating and selling the slave mothers/children.

 

And after 14 centuries of Oppression, here comes Muslims and deny this Zulm, without giving even a single proof.

 

* Have you given a proof that these Ahadith are weak? NO. You have given absolutely no proof except for your conjecture.

* Have you given proof that Quran has prohibited it? No, You have given absolutely no proof except for your conjecture.

 

Please open your eyes and come out of this religious brainwashing.

Please stop defending the undefendable crime.

Please do the justice, even if it goes against Islam. You should have the courage to criticize the religion if it goes against the humanity.

 

3 hours ago, Asim said:

(p.s. furthermore it's not even a relevant subject in today's Islamic world, check it yourself; pre-Islam situation, transformation 1500 yrs ago and status today)

Totally false and a total Deception by the Muslims.

Mr. Asim is a simple Muslim. Perhaps he himself does not know the complete truth.

 

Complete truth is very ugly.

 

According to Islam, it is only the Right of Allah to make the Sharia law. And no human could change the Sharia laws that have been made by Allah.

 

And it is Allah who made slavery HALAL in the Sharia, thus no human could ever declare Halal of Allah haram.

 

And slavery is Halal of Allah, and it is going to stay Halal till the judgement day.

 

Muslim Scholars tell the people that Muslims are weak at moment, and we could not wage a Jihad against the non-Muslims at moment. But as soon as Muslims get stronger, then it is obligatory upon them to wage Jihad against the Kuffar, kill them, and take their women/children as slaves.

 

Here is the Fatwas of Saudi Grand Mufti Sheikh Saleh al-Fawzan:

 

 

You can read this Fatwa in details here.

 

The evils of religion are horrible.

 

Muslims of today are themselves innocent and 99% of them absolutely don't know about these Evils.

 

[Vilander]

14 hours ago, Asim said:

YES...

(p.s. furthermore it's not even a relevant subject in today's Islamic world, check it yourself; pre-Islam situation, transformation 1500 yrs ago and status today)

Good to know but systemically i am not sure though, unless reports of slavery and abuse emanating from civil war in middle east are totally untrue, there is some remnant impact to these unregulated and marginal religious literary  works.

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Only instructions about slaves in Quran is this that you are allowed to rape them after capturing the women and making them prisoners.

direct violation of human rights if it says that. So it should be reformed or people should tend to agree that they should look to reform it..

[dial_100]

32 minutes ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

 

so Go ahead. thre are more thn 1.8 Billion muslims in the world. convince them.

in the end you will end up in 6 feet deep down sh1thole. 

 

Can you not be little civil and cultured on a public forum. I dont agree with you or many dont agree with me. Do you see me wishing them buried 6 ft down in a sh1t(ole? 

cheers!

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

since when this scholar ha an authority over Islam ? I can post more fatwas from different scholars. find me ONE scholar who has authority over Islam.

Quran and Sunnah (Hadith) are the authorities according to the Islamic principles.

 

And I already cited rape of slave women from Quran, while Sunnah (Hadith) is tens of folds worst than Quran in oppression against the Humanity. 

 

Quran only told to rape the captive women, but Hadith told Muslims not only they are allowed to rape the captive women, but also to sell them further after temporary sexual relationship (like Shia Mutta ... temporary marriage). And then the 2nd master will rape her, and after fulfilling his lust, he will sell her to the 3rd master to rape her.

 

And this circle continued. Muslim men were raping the slave girls, selling them further, and buying them the new slave girls for sex. And Prophet Muhammad himself personally gave this teaching. 

 

Sahih Muslim (link) and Sahih Bukhari (link):

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him):

0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger mentioning al-'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception)? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them (i.e. to have sex with them), for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them (by selling them to new masters). So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception, so that they could get good price by selling them). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger, and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

 

From here came the Bazaars of Slaves, where such slave women were sold again and again and again, and every time they had to provide the sex services to their next Muslim masters. 

 

Please note, free Muslim woman need Iddah (i.e. waiting period) of 3 months after divorce to marry another man. But waiting period of slave women in Islam is only 3 to 5 days (i.e. one blood of menses which lasts 3 to 5 days normally). After menses blood was over, the new master got the right to rape her again. 

 

 

Slavery in Judaism and Christianity is many times better than Islam:

 

Judaism and Christianity are also false religions. They also allowed the rape of the captive women by  taking them as slaves. But still Judaism and Christianity are many folds better than Islam when it comes to the oppression of the slave women. 

 

Although Judaism/Christianity allow rape of captive women, but then she becomes like a "permanent wife" and the men were not allowed to sell them further to the new masters. (Reference: Bible, Deuteronomy, Chapter 21)

 

Jews lived with Muhammad in Madina. Still Muhammad was unable to give such rights to the slaves as the Judaism gave. Reason was this that Muhammad belonged to the Kuffar Arab Tribe, and it was their tradition where they sold the slave girl after fulfilling the lust.

Therefore, when Muhammad made the Sharia laws regarding slaves, then they were the "mixture" of Arab cultural laws and the Jewish religious laws. 

 

Jews also not allowed to sell further such slave women who gave birth to the child of the master. But Arabs sold such slave women. And Muhammad again followed the Arab Culture in this regards and allowed the selling of such slave mother who gave birth to the master's child. 

 

Quote

so are you the new Salman rushdie or what ?

I have nothing to do with Salman Rushdie. 

I am only I am. 

I serve no other than the Humanity. 

 

I have not earn a single penny from any one. Actually opposite is true. I have lost a lot by leaving Islam and following the path which humanity in me showed me. 

 

Quote

so Go ahead. thre are more thn 1.8 Billion muslims in the world. convince them.

I am not "imposing" anything upon the others. 

I am only bringing proofs and arguments and inviting towards the voice of Humanity. It is known as the right to preach.  Muhammad also used this right to preach against the idols, and you have no problem with it. But when we use this right to criticize Islam, then it becomes a crime. Why? 

 

If we impose anything upon the Muslims by using sword, then you are justified to criticize us. 

 

Please also note there are 5 billion non-Muslims too. You reserve this right for you to preach them and convert them to Islam. But why do you deny us to preach the Muslims and show them that Islam is going against the Human Values?

 

Quote

in the end you will end up in 6 feet deep down sh1thole. 

I have absolutely no fears of ending up in the 6 feet deep grave. 

I have no fears of any Hell.

I have no fears of any Allah. 

 

Quote

thre were people like you, hundreds of hundreds, the so called philosopher/scholar/writers, who came before you and will come after you, to spread the BS you are posting here. its nothing new. In every age of Islam and in every century , we can find many people like you. 

I am neither a philosopher nor a scholar. 

I am an average person with perhaps below average intelligence. 

 

But I am proud of only one thing i.e. I am true and honest to myself and I hear the voice of Humanity which never misguides me. 

 

And in the light of modern science and technology, all the religions are going to die sooner or later. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Alam_dar

[Asim]

@Alam_dar

17 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Brother, I wonder how could you make such a big Blunder?

 

The reality is:

 

* All the Muslim Hadith Masters are unanimous for the last 14 centuries that these Ahadith about separating and selling of slave mother/child are "Sahih (authentic)".

* There is absolutely nothing in Quran about it (as usual). Only instructions about slaves in Quran is this that you are allowed to rape them after capturing the women and making them prisoners.

* For the last 14 centuries, ALL Muslims (Ijma) have been separating and selling the slave mothers/children.

 

And after 14 centuries of Oppression, here comes Muslims and deny this Zulm, without giving even a single proof.

 

* Have you given a proof that these Ahadith are weak? NO. You have given absolutely no proof except for your conjecture.

* Have you given proof that Quran has prohibited it? No, You have given absolutely no proof except for your conjecture.

 

Please open your eyes and come out of this religious brainwashing.

Please stop defending the undefendable crime.

Please do the justice, even if it goes against Islam. You should have the courage to criticize the religion if it goes against the humanity.

 

Totally false and a total Deception by the Muslims.

Mr. Asim is a simple Muslim. Perhaps he himself does not know the complete truth.

 

Complete truth is very ugly.

 

According to Islam, it is only the Right of Allah to make the Sharia law. And no human could change the Sharia laws that have been made by Allah.

 

And it is Allah who made slavery HALAL in the Sharia, thus no human could ever declare Halal of Allah haram.

 

And slavery is Halal of Allah, and it is going to stay Halal till the judgement day.

 

Muslim Scholars tell the people that Muslims are weak at moment, and we could not wage a Jihad against the non-Muslims at moment. But as soon as Muslims get stronger, then it is obligatory upon them to wage Jihad against the Kuffar, kill them, and take their women/children as slaves.

 

Here is the Fatwas of Saudi Grand Mufti Sheikh Saleh al-Fawzan:

 

 

You can read this Fatwa in details here.

 

The evils of religion are horrible.

 

Muslims of today are themselves innocent and 99% of them absolutely don't know about these Evils.

 

There are around 50 officially declared Islamic states in world today, what's their official total number of 'slaves' they keeping right now?

[Alam_dar]

3 hours ago, Asim said:

@Alam_dar

There are around 50 officially declared Islamic states in world today, what's their official total number of 'slaves' they keeping right now?

Please understand that demolishing of Slavery is an Achievement of the "Non-Religious West" of today. 

While Islam has 0% role in it. 

Actually, Islam played totally NEGATIVE role. 

 

Firstly, Islam got 14 centuries to end the slavery. But it went in negative direction and slavery only increased thousands of folds under Islam. Prophet Muhammad got 23 slave women. The numbers of slaves during first 4 Caliphs went to several hundred thousands, and then it went to millions in the succeeding centuries under Muslim rule. 

 

Then in the 15th centuries, Europe started to get rid of the religion and the church. At this time Humanity driven movements also got the momentum, and there started many movements against the slavery. During 17th-18th century, slavery was forbidden in several parts of Europe. 

 

Then in the 20th century, this Non-Religious West succeeded in abolishing the slavery in the whole world. They compelled all the Muslim states to sign up the universal pact and abolish the slavery. 

 

But in whole world, the most who resisted against the ending of slavery were the Muslims and the Muslim States. 

 

Whole world ended the slavery in 1948 through UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

But Saudi Arabia ended the slavery only in 1962, and that too upon immense pressure of the Europe and US. 

Oman ended it only in 1970.

Mauritania in 1981.

 

Muslim Ulama resisted against it a lot, by claiming that none could make that thing Haram, which had been made Halal by Allah in His Sharia. Please try to understand this point. 

 

===

 

Now let us go in the old History. 

 

Do you know that Buddha preached against the slavery even 1200 years before Islam? 

Ashoka the Great was the follower of Buddah, and he abolished all the Bazars of Slavery about 1000 years before Muhammad. 

And then the following Buddhisht states succeeded to demolish slavery 100% by replacing it through the system of Serfdom in the 13th Century. 

 

Buddah was himself an Atheist/Agnostic. He didn't believe in any Creator. None of the Buddah's teachings came through any angel, but all his teachings came through human thinking. 

 

Buddah preached against slavery only on the bases of Humanity, and thus succeeded in abolishing the slavery. 

The non-religious secular West also succeeded in abolishing the slavery on the bases of Humanity only. 

 

But the God Inspired Abrahamic Religions failed totally. Actually they legalised the slavery by making it a part of their religions. Thus numbers of slaves only increased under the thousands of years of history of all the 3 Abrahamic religions. 

[Clarke]

US prez has a third wife of east European origins. Pak PM who was a playboy type in youth has an ultra conservative third wife. Indian PM doesn't have a wife for all practical purposes. French prez has a wife 25 yrs older than him. 

 

We do live in liberated & better times.