Series positives?

[CG]

yeah ...we must expect Rahane to be  absolutely marvellous in all  alien countries he plays in . He already avg:s 50+ in 3 countries out  4  in SENA, that too from the comparatively lower 5th or 6th position in general . His only  modest returns as of now is in ENG with an almost 30 avg: . From the previous era , even the most successful of all of those great batsmen, the legendary Sachin avg:ed 

Last 2 years Rahane Has been Poor at home so it was expected he would struggle overseas.No 5 is generally the best place to bat overseas but still he has struggled.If he performs poorly in aus he has to dropped.

[rtmohanlal]

40 minutes ago, CG said:

54 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

yeah ...we must expect Rahane to be  absolutely marvellous in all  alien countries he plays in . He already avg:s 50+ in 3 countries out  4  in SENA, that too from the comparatively lower 5th or 6th position in general . His only  modest returns as of now is in ENG with an almost 30 avg: . From the previous era , even the most successful of all of those great batsmen, the legendary Sachin avg:ed 

Last 2 years Rahane Has been Poor at home so it was expected he would struggle overseas.No 5 is generally the best place to bat overseas but still he has struggled.If he performs poorly in aus he has to dropped.

yeah ...just because he is not that perfect at home to counter  spinners, we can automatically assume that  he would struggle  overseas

in dealing with seam/swing( entirely different technique required as against spinners)    etc ,despite  him having such  proven credentials  in general in those overseas conditions as of now. I don't  understand the logic behind some of the Rahane criticizers. 

In ENG , he struggled because his technique is not that adapted to counter swing. In this regard the most perfect comparison is VVS. He always was brilliant in AUS , but was only at the best 'good' in ENG.So based on his just preceeded ENG performance, if VVS was dropped  from his immediate AUS tour, does it make any sense??? Similarly Kapil was always brilliant in AUS and modest in ENG.To drop Kapil from the team based on his

just concluded ENG series would have been as foolish as it can get.

.And in 2 inns in SAF , in such a low scoring match,Rahane top scored  with 48.You simply cannot associate  this performance  as a part of his  general   form in the last 2 years. Even in ASIA in the last 2 years he avg:ed 36+ which is worthy of a 5th position batsman whose main weakness is playing spin.

 

So the fact is ,in the last 2 years  Rahane  played almost entirely in his moderate/poor zone (ENG & Asia)  and hence his stats.

We need to keep in mind that a batsman of Rahane's calibre is so  difficult to trace out, one who avg: 50+ in 3 out of  4 in SENA.

For a comparison  just check the records of previous era batsmen. All had bogey countries. NZL,AUS for Ganguly, SAF for Dravid, ENG for VVS  etc etc.

For me Rahane would always be  in my team , because every Devang Gandhi,Jayant Yadav,Sidhu,Sehwag etc etc can be tiger at home, but to be absolutely brilliant in alien countries  of SENA is such a rare exceptional feat  and such a batsman is extremely rare to find out.

Edited September 14, 2018 by rtmohanlal

[CG]

yeah ...just because he is not that perfect at home to counter  spinners, we can automatically assume that  he would struggle  overseas
in dealing with seam/swing( entirely different technique required as against spinners)    etc ,despite  him having such  proven credentials  in general in those overseas conditions as of now. I don't  understand the logic behind some of the Rahane criticizers. 
In ENG , he struggled because his technique is not that adapted to counter swing. And in 2 inns in SAF , in such a low scoring match, he top scored  with 48.You simply cannot associate  this performance  as a part of his  general   form in the last 2 years. Even in ASIA in the last 2 years he avg:ed 36+ which is worthy of a 5th position batsman whose main weakness is playing spin.
 
So the fact is ,in the last 2 years  Rahane  played almost entirely in his moderate/poor zone (ENG & Asia)  and hence his stats.
We need to keep in mind that a batsman of Rahane's calibre is so  difficult to trace out, one who avg: 50+ in 3 out of  4 in SENA.
For a comparison  just check the records of previous era batsmen. All had bogey countries. NZL,AUS for Ganguly, SAF for Dravid, ENG for VVS  etc etc.
For me Rahane would always be  in my team , because every Devang Gandhi,Jayant Yadav,Sidhu,Sehwag etc etc can be tiger at home, but to be absolutely brilliant in alien countries  of SENA is such a rare exceptional feat  and such a batsman is extremely rare to find out.

You can't go by past tours.Fact is Rahane is No youngster if after 50 test he avg 40 There is something Wrong.He struggle against Spin are well documented he got 5 tests in England and 4 more to go in aus if he Fails he will be dropped.

[coffee_rules]

I said negatives for Rahane, but I still want him for WI/Aus tours. I want Dhawan dropped. Rest of them need more chances/rope. I am not totally convinced about Pandya. He should go back to domestic/India-A and hone his batting skills to be a better #6/#7 reliable , who comes in and gets 40-50 during rear-guard situations. 

Edited September 14, 2018 by coffee_rules

[rtmohanlal]

10 minutes ago, CG said:

17 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

yeah ...just because he is not that perfect at home to counter  spinners, we can automatically assume that  he would struggle  overseas
in dealing with seam/swing( entirely different technique required as against spinners)    etc ,despite  him having such  proven credentials  in general in those overseas conditions as of now. I don't  understand the logic behind some of the Rahane criticizers. 
In ENG , he struggled because his technique is not that adapted to counter swing. And in 2 inns in SAF , in such a low scoring match, he top scored  with 48.You simply cannot associate  this performance  as a part of his  general   form in the last 2 years. Even in ASIA in the last 2 years he avg:ed 36+ which is worthy of a 5th position batsman whose main weakness is playing spin.
 
So the fact is ,in the last 2 years  Rahane  played almost entirely in his moderate/poor zone (ENG & Asia)  and hence his stats.
We need to keep in mind that a batsman of Rahane's calibre is so  difficult to trace out, one who avg: 50+ in 3 out of  4 in SENA.
For a comparison  just check the records of previous era batsmen. All had bogey countries. NZL,AUS for Ganguly, SAF for Dravid, ENG for VVS  etc etc.
For me Rahane would always be  in my team , because every Devang Gandhi,Jayant Yadav,Sidhu,Sehwag etc etc can be tiger at home, but to be absolutely brilliant in alien countries  of SENA is such a rare exceptional feat  and such a batsman is extremely rare to find out.

You can't go by past tours.Fact is Rahane is No youngster if after 50 test he avg 40 There is something Wrong.He struggle against Spin are well documented he got 5 tests in England and 4 more to go in aus if he Fails he will be dropped.

Ganguly after  50 tests & 86 inns avg:ed  40.97 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28779.html?class=1;spanmax1=15+dec+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

Would you have dropped him too??????

[CG]

Ganguly after  50 tests & 86 inns avg:ed  40.97 
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28779.html?class=1;spanmax1=15+dec+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
 
Would you have dropped him too??????

Ganguly was dropped After Zim tour.

[zen]

12 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Ganguly after  50 tests & 86 inns avg:ed  40.97 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28779.html?class=1;spanmax1=15+dec+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting

 

Would you have dropped him too??????

Note that Ganguly provided other utilities as well - captaincy, bowling, etc. .... and he was not considered among the best test batsmen in the team (Sachin, Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag, etc.) .... also the replacements were not as good as Ganguly .... also consider the bowling attack of that time 

 

Rahane, if he does not bat well in SENA which is his speciality, provides not much utility .... and drops catches too 

Edited September 14, 2018 by zen

[rtmohanlal]

7 minutes ago, zen said:

No, because Ganguly provided other utilities as well - captaincy, bowling, etc. .... and he was not considered among the best test batsmen in the team (Sachin, Dravid, Laxman, Sehwag, etc.) .... also the replacements were not as good as Ganguly 

 

Rahane, if he does not bat well in SENA which is his speciality, provides not much utility .... and drops catches too 

yes  Ganguly was  better in other areas.... agreed . But as a pure batsman Rahane's record is  of a bit  more worth because of his  much more rounded record in SENA. And for the prevailing situation in the team  with all rounders like Ashwin,Jadeja,Pandya too able to provide with runs at home and in ASIA, I would prefer Rahane over Ganguly as a pure batsman in my team . If Rahane fails in the next AUS series, then it is worth having a discussion.

 

And the most important factor you specified.... replacements ..... do we have as of now????? if there are 5 batsmen  who can replace all except Kohli, I would happily drop Rahane from the list.

Edited September 14, 2018 by rtmohanlal

[rtmohanlal]

17 minutes ago, CG said:

19 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

Ganguly after  50 tests & 86 inns avg:ed  40.97 
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/28779.html?class=1;spanmax1=15+dec+2001;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting
 
Would you have dropped him too??????

Ganguly was dropped After Zim tour.

but went on to play  113 matches...

[zen]

7 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

yes  Ganguly was  better in other areas.... agreed . But as a pure batsman Rahane's record is  of a bit  more worth because of his  much more rounded record in SENA. And for the prevailing situation in the team  with all rounders like Ashwin,Jadeja,Pandya too able to provide with runs at home and in ASIA, I would prefer Rahane over Ganguly as a pure batsman in my team . If Rahane fails in the next AUS series, then it is worth having a discussion.

that "rounded record" is 4-5 years old though .... players are selected based on recent form 

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Start of match date between 14 Sep 2016 and 14 Sep 2018

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by runs scored (descending)

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Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
V Kohli	2016-2018	26	46	4	2902	243	69.09	4502	64.46	11	7	3	305	8
CA Pujara	2016-2018	27	47	3	2327	202	52.88	5104	45.59	8	11	3	272	4
KL Rahul	2016-2018	21	35	1	1319	199	38.79	2167	60.86	2	10	4	166	7
M Vijay	2016-2018	20	35	0	1296	155	37.02	2823	45.90	6	3	3	140	12
AM Rahane	2016-2018	24	42	3	1288	188	33.02	2710	47.52	2	6	3	138	8

 

He has been the weakest link in our batting in the last two years .... 50 tests = lots of opportunities, and those 24 tests are like 50% of the tests that he has played so far 

Edited September 14, 2018 by zen

[rtmohanlal]

3 minutes ago, zen said:

that "rounded record" is 4-5 years old though .... players are selected based on recent form 

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team India

Start of match date between 14 Sep 2016 and 14 Sep 2018

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 1000

Ordered by runs scored (descending)

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Showing 1 - 5 of 5

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Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
V Kohli	2016-2018	26	46	4	2902	243	69.09	4502	64.46	11	7	3	305	8
CA Pujara	2016-2018	27	47	3	2327	202	52.88	5104	45.59	8	11	3	272	4
KL Rahul	2016-2018	21	35	1	1319	199	38.79	2167	60.86	2	10	4	166	7
M Vijay	2016-2018	20	35	0	1296	155	37.02	2823	45.90	6	3	3	140	12
AM Rahane	2016-2018	24	42	3	1288	188	33.02	2710	47.52	2	6	3	138	8

 

He has been the weakest link in our batting in the last two years 

i have explained such thoroughly as to why Rahane's last 2 years  record don't  count much in one of  my earlier post.If recent form is all that matters then we can replace Rahane with Wasim Jaffer

[CG]

i have explained such thoroughly as to why Rahane's last 2 years  record don't  count much in one of  my earlier post.If recent form is all that matters then we can replace Rahane with Wasim Jaffer

Ganguly was captain otherwise he would have been dropped earlier.Again We were not a World class side back then but now we are no 1 and have many options.We can't carry Rahane much longer if he is going to struggle at home.

[zen]

1 minute ago, rtmohanlal said:

i have explained such thoroughly as to why Rahane's last 2 years  record don't  count much in one of  my earlier post.If recent form is all that matters then we can replace Rahane with Wasim Jaffer

We have youngsters who can be tried out .... Rahane NEEDS to avg closer to 50, if not higher, in SENA, at this point in his career to overlook his "deficiencies" that you sight as reasons for his recent failures .... If he is going to score 2-3 50s in the whole series in Aus and a bunch of low scores, we might as well try someone else w/ the potential to score some 100s 

 

Other batsmen make it count in conditions that suit them by scoring big 100s 

[rtmohanlal]

9 minutes ago, CG said:

13 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said:

i have explained such thoroughly as to why Rahane's last 2 years  record don't  count much in one of  my earlier post.If recent form is all that matters then we can replace Rahane with Wasim Jaffer

Ganguly was captain otherwise he would have been dropped earlier.Again We were not a World class side back then but now we are no 1 and have many options.We can't carry Rahane much longer if he is going to struggle at home.

ok ... you people believe  in what ever you want... even 7,8,9 like  Ashwin,Jadeja,Pandya,Kuldeep etc can   bat at home adequately enough to compensate  for the shortcomings of one Rahane.   No: 1...... we all witnessed what happend to the so called no:1 team

in the last 2 abroad series. OOOH.... yes  options are standing in queue  like Rahul, Vihari,Pant  etc etc who all average over 100 in SENA as of now......  especially Rahul who has been sooooooo brilliant in all 3 of the SENA series he played till now.

[DHONI_FANN]

Hopefully Saha and Rahane will be kicked out for ever

[rtmohanlal]

16 minutes ago, zen said:

We have youngsters who can be tried out .... Rahane NEEDS to avg closer to 50, if not higher, in SENA, at this point in his career to overlook his "deficiencies" that you sight as reasons for his recent failures .... If he is going to score 2-3 50s in the whole series in Aus and a bunch of low scores, we might as well try someone else w/ the potential to score some 100s 

 

Other batsmen make it count in conditions that suit them by scoring big 100s 

you believe in what ever you like

[Vilander]

Biggest negatives:

 

in consistency of Pandya

inability or incomplete status of Kuldeep

Fall in form of Ashwin

Loss of Vijay's ability as an opener. 

Inability of KLR to become a strong batting deputy of Kohli.

 

Biggest Positives

 

Kohli confirming he is a beast and Intimidating presence as a batsman.

Pujara finding some form in trying conditions.

Ishant sharma - finding a way to pick wickets.

Shammi becoming fully fit and hitting 90 miles in last test last innings still.

Overall pace bowling looking world class picking 20 wickets most of the time and all pace bowlers bowling faster than opposition ( never seen anyone other than Aus do this to top teams).

Edited September 14, 2018 by Vilander

[Deleted_User_1]

Bewda-Bubbloo Beta ka prem katha

Edited September 15, 2018 by dandaroy