putrevus Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 16 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said: you are making things of your own.... I just maintain that Kohli would have far lesser stats in those much tougher batting conditions. That's all .Naturally that would affect his no: of 100s too.Nor do I question Kohli's greatness. Nor do I question your choice of order w.r.t these batsmen . The only matter that I question are the reasons for your conclusions which i can't agree with. I don't think his stats would be that different in any era may be couple of points here and there but he would still average higher than any other player past or present.Unlike others in this era Kohli is different as his game is built different. Link to comment
beetle Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Mumbai Police ✔@MumbaiPolice · Oct 24, 2018 No over-speeding challan here, just accolades & best wishes for more @imVkohli ! Many congratulations on your amazing feat! prakash shenoy@prakashkgshenoy Good to see some good copy writers in Mum Police, nice. Very creative. Keep it up! 8:17 PM - Oct 24, 2018 3 See prakash shenoy's other Tweets Ouch !!!Bumrah !!!! Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 46 minutes ago, putrevus said: I don't think his stats would be that different in any era may be couple of points here and there but he would still average higher than any other player past or present.Unlike others in this era Kohli is different as his game is built different. this is where the huge difference in opinion with you comes. Every era has some sets of basic rules and playing conditions etc etc upon which players develop their games and go onto perform. In Viv'S time 3-3.5-4 was the econ: norm.It implies as to how bowler friendly those periods were. Naturally it can be assumed that quite often during the course of an inns, a front line batsman would receive those unplayable wicket taking deliveries which he needed to resist. In the rest of the inns he needed to keep on scoring runs too.So that means , great defense and a related method was required to counter those Viv's method was based on that. In Kohli's times, the conditions are extremely different. Even 400+ totals are scored a lot. 200+ individual inns are getting scored. This means the chances of a batsman getting those nasty wkt taking deliveries thru the course of an inns has reduced hugely in general. Kohli's run scoring method is based on these rules & conditions. So it is not that difficult to understand that both these playing rules and conditions are entirely different to one another. That being the case , you are saying with such 100% surety that Kohli whose technique and methods are adapted for current days would have overtaken the best batsman of that time period.How does that make any sense? To me it make sense only in that both are best of their respective generations and hence are ATGS. After that, it is all general perception that determines the ratings.it is as per that I rate Viv,Sachin & Kohli in that order. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 4 hours ago, rtmohanlal said: but i oppose your claim because a batsman needs great defence technique and his own related method to with stand the quality deliveries that frequently comes at him as was the case with Viv's times. That means mere survival itself was a big task those days as the general econ: norm of 3-3.5-4 shows .Then only one can even dare to play strokes along the ground. So the basic criteria itself was so different back then when compared to that of now a days.That being the case it is senseless to compare number of 100s of both these players. Kapil scored because he was such a naturally talented batsman. So the basic matter is it is your personnel choice to consider who ever as the better batsman, but your reasons for the same cannot be accepted as such and Kohli has bad technique? Switchblade 1 Link to comment
Adi BB Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 I think he's the odi GOAT! 10k runs @ 58 is madness . Though I want kohli the test batsman to score big and average close to 60 in the next couple of years ,I like kohli the test batsman nowadays Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, rkt.india said: and Kohli has bad technique? no ..kohli has a good technique. But as I said 'his technique and related method' of today doesn't guarantee he would have 100 % surely exceeded Viv whose 'technique and related method ' enabled him to far exceed other batsmen of his era.Viv had a method of going too far across which nullified LBW chances to the utmost and playing cross batted shots to even genuine quicks with the aid of his lightning reflexes.And this method most suited that era. There is no guarantee that this method would have brought him that much success in these third umpire , DRS, days.That is why if I say Viv would have definitely exceeded all the others of this generation,then that would be too much. Then it all comes to general perceiving in ordering these greats. Kohli method is the best for high scoring batting friendly wickets . He avoids in the air shots as much as possible before he gets settled. Then he has great match temperament.That enables him to continue on and on in easy pitches. But in by gone eras the basic itself was far different.Every now and then a dangerous delivery would be received.If you don't have the technique to survive that , that would be the end of the inns. Edited October 25, 2018 by rtmohanlal mishra 1 Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Stats of great players should be evaluated based on the contexts they played in. For instance take Gavaskar. If some body takes Rohit Sharma's and Gavaskar's record and then evaluate them based on pure stats only , then no wonder Rohit would be the convincingly better one by several levels. But then the matter of context comes. Sunil started off when one dayers were taken only as 'as casual as it would have been'. And the first few overs needed to be played out with that much difficulty as has always been in the first few overs of a test match. In the first decade of 70-80, 3-3.5 was the general bowling econ: norm. Players too were not at all serious w.r.t longevity and all as is the case with now a days. Based on that I wouldn't blame at all some body, if he placed Sunil even in almost the same level as Rohit as an one day batsman. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 27 minutes ago, rtmohanlal said: Stats of great players should be evaluated based on the contexts they played in. For instance take Gavaskar. If some body takes Rohit Sharma's and Gavaskar's record and then evaluate them based on pure stats only , then no wonder Rohit would be the convincingly better one by several levels. But then the matter of context comes. Sunil started off when one dayers were taken only as 'as casual as it would have been'. And the first few overs needed to be played out with that much difficulty as has always been in the first few overs of a test match. In the first decade of 70-80, 3-3.5 was the general bowling econ: norm. Players too were not at all serious w.r.t longevity and all as is the case with now a days. Based on that I wouldn't blame at all some body, if he placed Sunil even in almost the same level as Rohit as an one day batsman. so you mean to say gavaskar is better ODI batsman than Rohit? Switchblade 1 Link to comment
putrevus Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 Wow I heard everything, Gavaskar is on same level as Rohit as a one day player. Nostalgia is fine but there should be a limit to it. Link to comment
rkt.india Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, putrevus said: Wow I heard everything, Gavaskar is on same level as Rohit as a one day player. Nostalgia is fine but there should be a limit to it. It is more like Lostalgia, not nostalgia. Suhaan and Switchblade 2 Link to comment
rtmohanlal Posted October 26, 2018 Share Posted October 26, 2018 6 hours ago, putrevus said: Wow I heard everything, Gavaskar is on same level as Rohit as a one day player. Nostalgia is fine but there should be a limit to it. 7 hours ago, rkt.india said: so you mean to say gavaskar is better ODI batsman than Rohit? Did i say that ???? i am just saying that if some body comes with a bit more in depth analysis and is able to clarify that Gavaskar's stats based on his' playing days norms & general data match in comparison with that of Rohit's and there by claims thay are more or less equal, then I won't be surprised at all. That is what I am claiming. For instance take the basic general bowling econ: itself. In Gavaskar's time it was 3.25-3.75. In Rohit's case it is 5-5.5-6 . So 3.5/5 = 0.7 Gavaskar's average/Rohit's avg: = 35.16/46.88 = 0.75 So basically Gavaskar could match in avg: against those set of bowlers with 3.5 econ: in general with Rohit and his corresponding bowling econ:. In depth analysis is another matter.I am only saying that I wouldn't be surprised on such a conclusion with genuine in depth analysis of relative data . Link to comment
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