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Sid kaul selected for third t20 against WI

vishalvirsingh

By vishalvirsingh
in Cricket Talk

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Suhaan Grand Master

Suhaan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

No.

 

For Pacers ... 

 

Have atleast 3 of the qualities below 

 

Pace

Bounce 

Accuracy

Movement

 

Then perform in  FC /  List A

Then perform for India A

 

Then get chance for Team India.

 

 

If a pacer has bounce + accuracy + movement but lacks extra pace ...  and performs ... he should get a chance.

 

Kaul lacks pace, bounce and extra  accuracy needed for his pace level.  How will he succeed in the medium run  ?

I echo each and every word of your post,

Well said

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Global.Baba Newbie

Global.Baba

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

No.

 

For Pacers

 

Have atleast 3 of the qualities below 

 

Pace

Bounce 

Accuracy

Movement

I have a different view point

 

1. Handling pressure/temperament

2.Bounce

3.Pace

4.Any extra skills

 

would you pick varun Aaron over Bhuvi or even young Khaleel?

 

Look at the guys who have had a long career and potential to have a long career

 

Handling pressure/temperament 

Bumrah- showed temperament at a young age. It so happened that he had pace and other skills that made him the best in the world today

 

Ishant- stuck a chord with every Indian fan when he was not overawed by a legend like Ponting

 

Shami-Handled pressure situations like a champ.has skills to boot

 

On the other hand Umesh has more pace than some of those names and even a killer out swinger but has not done justice to his potential because he just doesn’t have the temperament.

 

 

Bounce

we just discussed today that Someone like Lungi looks More threatening than a guy like Thakur even if he is a few k slower. McGrath and Ambrose are other examples.

 

Pace

Goes without saying. I am sure we are on the same page here.

 

Skills

Skills are never ready made. It is a constant learning process. How quickly you pick it up and how strong your  foundations are  to begin with makes a difference.

Edited by Global.Baba
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express bowling Grand Master

express bowling

Posted
Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

 

would you pivrk varun Aaron over Bhuvi or even young Khaleel?

 

Khaleel ticks all the trait and performance boxes I mentioned in my earlier post.  An ideal candidate for LOIs.

 

Earlier, Aaron did not tick 2 of the 4 boxes I mentioned.   Plus he did not perform at List A level and then for our A team in earlier years. So, I would not pick him.

 

This year he is moving the ball with more consistency.  And he has performed really well in List A.  So, he qualifies for our 50 over A team. But his questionable death bowling skills is still an issue if we play just 2 pacers.

 

Bhuvi has not proved to be an ideal candidate for ODIs either.  

 

Quote

 

Handling pressure/temperament 

 

 

Definitely a very important trait.  But not easy to recognize until a cricketer has played quite a few international games.

 

Hence I did not mention it for uncapped players or rookies.

 

Quote

 

 

Ishant- stuck a chord with every Indian fan when he was not overawed by a legend like Ponting

 

 

On the other hand Umesh has more pace than some of those names and even a killer out swinger but has not done justice to his potential because he just doesn’t have the temperament.

 

 

Ishant had failed at international level for 6 years.  Very lucky to survive and then has shown some skills.

 

Temperament has not been his forte ... if it had been then a tall and accurate pacer like him would have done well in ODIs.

 

Umesh suffered due to poor accuracy and lack of natural bounce.  Yes ... his temperament did not help either but his career has been no worse than Ishant's.

 

Quote

Bounce

we just discussed today that Someone like Lungi looks More threatening than a guy like Thakur even if he is a few k slower. McGrath and Ambrose are other examples.

 

Agree strongly and possessing this quality was one of the important traits I mentioned earlier.

 

Quote

Pace

Goes without saying. I am sure we are on the same page here.

 

Yes

 

Quote

Skills

Skills are never ready made. It is a constant learning process. How quickly you pick it up and how strong your  foundations are  to begin with makes a difference.

 

True.

Edited by express bowling
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express bowling Grand Master

express bowling

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Global.Baba said:

@express bowling bhai just to be clear I am not defending Kaul. I think he is trundler with no skills too.

 

The point I was making was his selection is not something straight out of the left field or undeserving. He has performed and earned his shot. Obviously he will be out of the scheme of things just like the ones who are not good enough already are.

 

Personally, I feel that having some basic qualities are necessary if a player has to be picked for international cricket.

 

Yes ... performance at FC level and A-team level are very important too.    

 

But if a cricketer lacks the basic traits then the performance level needed of him must be significantly more at A-team and domestic level.

 

Let's study the example of Dhawan as a test match batsman.

 

He has a poor off-stump game and short-ball game.   So, he lacks the basic qualities to be a good test batsman.  Picked for tests and a failed experiment ... yeh to sasura honahi tha. 

 

Pick a batsman who has atleast a decent off-stump game, short ball game and decent against spinners. Then see if he is performing.  Then you have a good candidate for test matches.

 

Pick a cricketer without the requisite qualities and you block and delay the development process of a proper candidate.

Edited by express bowling
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Ankit_sharma03 Grand Master

Ankit_sharma03

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, eternalhope said:

No....... It would have been disastrous. I have high hopes on this kid, let him develop. He should be groomed for the longer version.

not really he has been very good in IPL in pressure situation 

Neither the next game is on a patta like chinnaswamy or wankhade

this WI battinig has been embarssing till now 

 

No need to be scared, a less experienced thomas has done well 

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Global.Baba Newbie

Global.Baba

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

not really he has been very good in IPL in pressure situation 

Neither the next game is on a patta like chinnaswamy or wankhade

this WI battinig has been embarssing till now 

 

No need to be scared, a less experienced thomas has done well 

You can’t go by one odd game here and there. A full stellar season be it FC,List A or even IPL is what is required.

 

Guys like Rana and another batsman can’t remember his name, looked like a billion bucks in one off innings as well.

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Ankit_sharma03 Grand Master

Ankit_sharma03

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

You can’t go by one odd game here and there. A full stellar season be it FC,List A or even IPL is what is required.

He is already doing really well in domestic season till now + ipl

Who says one odd game here n their

6 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

 

Guys like Rana and another batsman can’t remember his name, looked like a billion bucks in one off innings as well.

With batsman i hve a diff take that they n spinners shud play domestic for a while

but fast bowler can be fast tracked 

 

Also Rana has issue with short pitch stuff + plus in his case i dnt see any spot 

 

Mavi cud have easily played this game ....he has shown all the right signs + takens wkts in domestic to now 

Kaul is not the right choice anyways so why no invest in a young guy, i dnt mind even ankit rajpoot 

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eternalhope Rookie

eternalhope

Posted
Posted

Rajpoot IMO would have been a better choice. I believe not too tall bowlers are more often than not more expensive in the shorter formats and to me Mavi falls under the shorter category - Thomas is at a different level physically. I feel he has a better chance in the longer format unless he develops other skills.

 

IMO we should groom Prasidh and Nathu for the shorter versions seeing how good Khaleel even with his reduced pace is doing now.  Before the I know all guy come in to say - Nathu is not that tall, 6ft for an Indian bowler could be IMO categorized as tall. Plus, I have a soft corner for Nathu, such a beautiful action. We talk about some batsmen like Rohit, Rahul or Mark Waugh and say 'easy on the eye' but this guy is a bowling equivalent of that. Wish this guy is not injury prone and they take good care of him.

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rkt.india Grand Master

rkt.india

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, eternalhope said:

Rajpoot IMO would have been a better choice. I believe not too tall bowlers are more often than not more expensive in the shorter formats and to me Mavi falls under the shorter category - Thomas is at a different level physically. I feel he has a better chance in the longer format unless he develops other skills.

 

IMO we should groom Prasidh and Nathu for the shorter versions seeing how good Khaleel even with his reduced pace is doing now.  Before the I know all guy come in to say - Nathu is not that tall, 6ft for an Indian bowler could be IMO categorized as tall. Plus, I have a soft corner for Nathu, such a beautiful action. We talk about some batsmen like Rohit, Rahul or Mark Waugh and say 'easy on the eye' but this guy is a bowling equivalent of that. Wish this guy is not injury prone and they take good care of him.

hopefully, this season Nathu will make a mark and can even become an outside candidate for WC birth.  He has everything going for him.  He just needs to become superfit.  Still remember two games he played last year in IPL, he gave nothing away in whatever he bowled, unfortunately got injured during second game that kept him out for almost one and a half years.

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