Straight Drive Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 The brutality is seen in these videos. They are killing people of their own religion brutally. They are keeping them as sex slaves in many cases. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsIfi80RyTU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZrL8q2IDWg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwqOTXRZR7g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 15 hours ago, Mariyam said: I'm afraid the part in bold just isn't true. Muslims in India are poorer than Hindus. And fare worse on most HDI parameters. Muslims are more urban, but not better off by any stretch. Take a look at the Sachar committee report. And what are these special privileges that you speak of? Haj subsidy, till recently. I think there is still some air fare costs taken up by the govt. There is a Haj terminal in Rajiv Gandhi International airport in Hyderabad. Minority schemes like Shaadi Bhagya/Bidai.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaadi_Bhagya_scheme https://www.indiafilings.com/learn/bidaai-shaadi-bhagya-scheme/ Minority Scholarship - https://www.motachashma.com/articles/minority-scholarships.php Temple money collected by Mujurai dept given to mosque/church funding - https://www.quora.com/Do-Hindu-temple-funds-including-Hundi-contributions-etc-go-to-the-cause-of-non-Hindus-in-Bharat Besides, all this, Muslims are economically weaker than other religions. I think lack of stress on education is the main reason. They dont invest in education, in general, but invest in small businesses - cycle shops, puncture shops, etc. In Bangalore, a lot of antique stores (like cauvery emporium) are owned by Muslims - they sell idols of gods (how ironic). The other reason I think is because they vote en-bloc. They are a huge vote bank that parties fight for the scraps. Just like SC/ST, they are marginalized in identity politics and they fall back on general education. Kerala muslims are well-to-do, probably because of gulf money. They send their kids to schools and invest in education of kids. Such a culture is lacking in the ghettos of Shivajinagar (Bengalore), Hyderabad, Mumbai and UP towns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 10 hours ago, Alam_dar said: If rich people of Reddys are also converting for more benefits, then again it is their right. It shows only this that these rich people are not spiritually connected with Hinduism. Otherwise, if someone is spiritually connected, then he does not convert even for money. Why then to enforce such people to stay within the domain of Hinduism? It has started in lower castes of Reddys who looked for economic opportunities - I know of a lot of lecturers and teachers in convent schools are converted from small towns - lured by the missionaries - Rice bag conversions! Due to customs like untouchability (in the pre-independence era till 60s may be), they were kept out of religion and the missionaries took advantage of this. They don't force, but coerce. Why should expansionist religions target the weaker sections of the society. SHows their hypocrisy. 10 hours ago, Alam_dar said: Use of force and threatening people is wrong. At maximum, Hindu community could itself open schools of high standards and could present other incentives. Government doesn't allow Hindus to open schools. There are very few RSS/VHP/Hindu based schools as compared to convents. This has been a law in India to open schools. This is a Colonial era law which Nehru continued and till date it is valid. Hence, I claim that the reason for Hindu sentiments to rise post Ayodhya is because of such government policies. They won't let Hindus run schools and then they take over our temples. 10 hours ago, Alam_dar said: And secondly, you could PREACH and quote the Bible to these people, which is full of fanaticism and falsehood, just like Quran and Ahadith. I see a lot of such stuff on the ex-Christians Atheists groups. That is why born Christians in Europe are leaving Christianity at rapid pace themselves. You talk of people who are well to do and have lots of time to think. These conversions are mainly in the weaker sections of the society and by people who look for job opportunities. 10 hours ago, Alam_dar said: Fact is, our younger generations will stop speaking regional and even the national languages and they will be speaking only English sooner or later as their mother tongue. Fact is, our younger generations will stop being religious too sooner or later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 10 hours ago, Alam_dar said: There are doubts about Javed Akhter, Shahrukh Khan, Amir Khan if they are loyal to India or not. They might be loyal, but are huge hypocrites. 10 hours ago, Alam_dar said: And at this forum, there are doubts if I am a secret agent of ISI/Mullahs or not. Yes, you keep harping on the same old things about rising extremism in Hindu India and the Dara-hua musalmaan lines of Naseeruddin Shah/ Javed Akhtar, etc, despite repeatedly shown views to the contrary. The same ideas ISI/Mullah use to break the Indian muslims to turn against Hindus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Commies are the only ones who have been able to deal with Islamic extremism in the long term. This shouldn't come as a surprise, since commies are extreme left-wing in their political theory, which means 'state rights/benefits to the state >>>> individual rights' and they crush individual rights willy-nilly. Lack of this aspect in the center, left-of-center, right and extreme right wing politics is why nobody - not the Indians, Turks, Americans etc. have been able to curb Islamic extremism. But the way has been shown - its the Soviets/current day Chinese that are the masters of curbing Islamic extremism. Their policy is pretty simple, though far-reaching and hard to do : every Imam, mullah, etc. is monitored by the government, the moment they start making 'pro-ummah and anti-national' noises, 'accidents happen' to them. High profile imams, aka those appointed to high profile mosques and such, are closely vetted and monitored. Since fall of the Soviet Union, Uzbekistan has been the hotbed of extremism recruits. Though Uzbekistan itself is a totalitarian dictatorship, they have severe unemployment issues ( Uzbekistan is the most populated of CA countries by far), as 70 years of Soviet rule has turned them into essentially a vast cotton growing field. And since their 'historical income' of being the base of the Soghdians and dominant silk route merchants dont exist anymore, Uzbekistan is teeming with unemployed youth. As such, its an open secret that Uzbek government & its religious bodies are completely fine if extremist Islamists siphon off some of this unemployed youth to fight their wars of Islam - so long as they don't open chapters in Uzbekistan and mess with the dictatorship there. This is why if you look closely, EVERY single Islam related conflict - from Taliban to ISIS to Libya - all have Uzbek fighters in them. Yet, Uzbekistan didn't just become Islamic recently - they were the Khanate of Bukhara and Kokand before being conquered by Tsarist Russia. Yet, under the Soviets, from 1920s to 1990, there was no Uzbek jihad, no uprising, no roiling against the godless commies. Same in Chechnya. Why ? Because the abovementioned way is the ONLY proven way of dealing with long term Islamism and keeping a tight lid on it. But it is not possible in India, USA or any such nation that is not politically tilted severely to the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 10 hours ago, Alam_dar said: If rich people of Reddys are also converting for more benefits, then again it is their right. It shows only this that these rich people are not spiritually connected with Hinduism. Otherwise, if someone is spiritually connected, then he does not convert even for money. Why then to enforce such people to stay within the domain of Hinduism? Stop talking nonsense. Rich people convert first to the new religions because it enables them to KEEP the monopoly of trade. This is why many Saindhava Rajputs and Gujrati rich upper class converted to Islam - the Arabian sea trade was dominated by the Arab muslims, who started to cut out non-muslims from the trade. Since Sindh & Gujarat were integrated into this trade network and were major players, many in their upper classes converted to keep the pipeline of $$ open. Same principle applies today. 10 hours ago, Alam_dar said: Use of force and threatening people is wrong. At maximum, Hindu community could itself open schools of high standards and could present other incentives. Use of bribery and saying 'if you convert, i will feed your kids' is equally wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 17 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: It has started in lower castes of Reddys who looked for economic opportunities - I know of a lot of lecturers and teachers in convent schools are converted from small towns - lured by the missionaries - Rice bag conversions! Due to customs like untouchability (in the pre-independence era till 60s may be), they were kept out of religion and the missionaries took advantage of this. They don't force, but coerce. Why should expansionist religions target the weaker sections of the society. SHows their hypocrisy. Government doesn't allow Hindus to open schools. There are very few RSS/VHP/Hindu based schools as compared to convents. This has been a law in India to open schools. This is a Colonial era law which Nehru continued and till date it is valid. Hence, I claim that the reason for Hindu sentiments to rise post Ayodhya is because of such government policies. They won't let Hindus run schools and then they take over our temples. You talk of people who are well to do and have lots of time to think. These conversions are mainly in the weaker sections of the society and by people who look for job opportunities. Could you please give me link to the India LAW which allows Christians to open schools/colleges, but ban Hindus to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 18 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: They might be loyal, but are huge hypocrites. It is not the RW narrative, but it is, "They are traitors and hypocrites". And why hypocrite? While they don't agree with the RW Hindutva? Not only these, but all those who don't agree with RW Hindutva, they are labelled as hypocrites, and when possible, then as traitors. 18 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Yes, you keep harping on the same old things about rising extremism in Hindu India and the Dara-hua musalmaan lines of Naseeruddin Shah/ Javed Akhtar, etc, despite repeatedly shown views to the contrary. The same ideas ISI/Mullah use to break the Indian muslims to turn against Hindus. This is the problem in the extremist RW regime ... they don't allow People of have their OWN OPINION. Either you should follow their narrative, otherwise you are damned. It is my own observation and my own opinion that people are afraid of the saffron brigade. Am I not entitled to hold my opinion? And I am not alone. All the Indian Secularists are of this same opinion. The foreign Reporters of Indian affairs of this opinion. Western people are of this opinion. It is only this that the Indian RW has closed their eyes and don't want to see these facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 14 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: Could you please give me link to the India LAW which allows Christians to open schools/colleges, but ban Hindus to do so. Article 25-30 of the Indian constitution, especially 29 and 30 guarantees minorities to retain their identity/culture/education, hence the schools they open are allowed. THere are a lot of hurdles for opening a Hindu based schools. They can't be autonomous and they have follow a curriculum etc. Ramakrishna Missions circumvented this problem by declaring themselves as a denomination separate from Hinduism, hence they fell into minority religion and hence could open and administer schools with their own agenda/curriculum etc. https://www.esamskriti.com/e/National-Affairs/For-The-Followers-Of-Dharma/Why-Did-The-Ramakrishna-Mission-Say-They-Are-Not-Hindus-1.aspx Quote 7. Establish and Administer - The chapter covers the meaning of ‘ right to establish and administer educational institutions’. Examined the relationship between articles 29 & 30. Then there is the Benefit Debate. Must the majority of students in a minority institution be from the minority community or! Have quoted various Supreme Court judgments that are contrary to each other. It ends with an analysis of the issues involved. Some of it is explained here (start from 7:00) : Alam_dar 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 16 minutes ago, Alam_dar said: It is not the RW narrative, but it is, "They are traitors and hypocrites". And why hypocrite? While they don't agree with the RW Hindutva? Not only these, but all those who don't agree with RW Hindutva, they are labelled as hypocrites, and when possible, then as traitors. This is the problem in the extremist RW regime ... they don't allow People of have their OWN OPINION. Either you should follow their narrative, otherwise you are damned. It is my own observation and my own opinion that people are afraid of the saffron brigade. Am I not entitled to hold my opinion? And I am not alone. All the Indian Secularists are of this same opinion. The foreign Reporters of Indian affairs of this opinion. Western people are of this opinion. It is only this that the Indian RW has closed their eyes and don't want to see these facts. You are as entitled to hold your opinion, despite having never visited India, lived in India, etc. of a very complex socio-religious issue. Your opinion is on the same level of credibility as flat earthers, anti-vaxxers and raw meat diet idiots - lacking any credibility. So we are not obligated to take your uneducated and unexperienced opinion as anything more than that. As the saying goes 'opinions are like a$$holes - everyone has one'. PS: Not all the Indian secularists are of the same opinion. I am not of the same opinion and i am way more left than most Indian secularists are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtmohanlal Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 (edited) On 3/5/2019 at 9:36 AM, Mariyam said: I'm afraid the part in bold just isn't true. Muslims in India are poorer than Hindus. And fare worse on most HDI parameters. Muslims are more urban, but not better off by any stretch. Take a look at the Sachar committee report. And what are these special privileges that you speak of? 'whether muslims are poorer than Hindus or not' doesn't make any sense what so ever w.r.t matter at hand.If there is any truth in what you said , muslims them selves have to do a retrospection w.r.t their living styles based on their religious beliefs BECAUSE,as far as I know , no body is blocking any one from earning descent money by working hard. For example , if I am poor, then I myself only has to blame and no one else. W.r.t 'Privilages', I have described some of these already. Edited March 6, 2019 by rtmohanlal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 4 hours ago, rtmohanlal said: 'whether muslims are poorer than Hindus or not' doesn't make any sense what so ever w.r.t matter at hand.If there is any truth in what you said , muslims them selves have to do a retrospection w.r.t their living styles based on their religious beliefs BECAUSE,as far as I know , no body is blocking any one from earning descent money by working hard. For example , if I am poor, then I myself only has to blame and no one else. W.r.t 'Privilages', I have described some of these already. Muslims are in general poorer, less educated and less well off than the median overall hindu figure, this is a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alam_dar Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 4 hours ago, rtmohanlal said: 'whether muslims are poorer than Hindus or not' doesn't make any sense what so ever w.r.t matter at hand.If there is any truth in what you said , muslims them selves have to do a retrospection w.r.t their living styles based on their religious beliefs BECAUSE,as far as I know , no body is blocking any one from earning descent money by working hard. For example , if I am poor, then I myself only has to blame and no one else. W.r.t 'Privilages', I have described some of these already. Not only this that Muslims were poorer, less educated and had less share in the government jobs, but the results are showing that they are becoming even more poorer and their share in the government jobs is becoming even worse. All the commissions suggested quota for them, while their children are not in position to compete with rest of the India in present situation. And quota is not going to take away the rights from the rich children of others if you give quota of 14-15% to them (according to their population). Every one understands it. But unfortunately, the issue is not to make Muslims progress, but the aim is to how to keep them uneducated, poor and how to change them into 2nd or 3rd class citizens, while they belong to a terrorist religion, and thus all of them are terrorists, and traitors to India, and deserve this collective punishment. Here lies the real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Drive Posted March 6, 2019 Share Posted March 6, 2019 Not all people from minorities can be painted with same brush as mentioned in OP. I had different experience. During a party i had left only some liqour in my glass and was waiting for food to be served. My friend (from minority) who was at the table with us, took my glass and had the remaining drink that i was having. Another friend from minority, during the fasting period, used to take "Timeplease" looking up in heavens and have food from our lunch boxes. Ladies of the another minority family, never wear their traditional clothes (not even during their festivals). Instead they are seen in Indian dresses and western ones. There are many examples i could give, but i am not hell bent to prove that all minorities are brain washed. Some of them break the hard set rules they have been set at home. I also take the point though that, if the conditions change, these very same people could show a drastic change and live a totally different life or change to the hardcore mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtmohanlal Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 (edited) On 3/6/2019 at 2:28 PM, Alam_dar said: Not only this that Muslims were poorer, less educated and had less share in the government jobs, but the results are showing that they are becoming even more poorer and their share in the government jobs is becoming even worse. All the commissions suggested quota for them, while their children are not in position to compete with rest of the India in present situation. And quota is not going to take away the rights from the rich children of others if you give quota of 14-15% to them (according to their population). Every one understands it. But unfortunately, the issue is not to make Muslims progress, but the aim is to how to keep them uneducated, poor and how to change them into 2nd or 3rd class citizens, while they belong to a terrorist religion, and thus all of them are terrorists, and traitors to India, and deserve this collective punishment. Here lies the real problem. Have given the answer already .Noting more to add.. If I am financially poor & not good at studies , work hard in any labour job and earn money and save it .If I am financially poor & good at studies earn a govt: or good company job, work hard and earn money and save it.Simple ... No one is deliberately blocking any one from such matters. And the bolder part is utter nonsense, as if some body is deliberately acting behind it. Edited March 8, 2019 by rtmohanlal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 On 3/6/2019 at 12:58 AM, Alam_dar said: Not only this that Muslims were poorer, less educated and had less share in the government jobs, but the results are showing that they are becoming even more poorer and their share in the government jobs is becoming even worse. All the commissions suggested quota for them, while their children are not in position to compete with rest of the India in present situation. And quota is not going to take away the rights from the rich children of others if you give quota of 14-15% to them (according to their population). Every one understands it. But unfortunately, the issue is not to make Muslims progress, but the aim is to how to keep them uneducated, poor and how to change them into 2nd or 3rd class citizens, while they belong to a terrorist religion, and thus all of them are terrorists, and traitors to India, and deserve this collective punishment. Here lies the real problem. Spoken like a biassed Pakistani who has special place in his heart for his former religion than a true atheist. Muslims are in general poorer and less educated because they have way more children. Math is clearly not your strong suite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Drive Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 The poverty of Muslims imo is because only males in most families do job. The women do not contribute to family income in lot of cases. There is no data to support this but just an observation. The other reason is the male has too many people to support on his own income. They have 2 and more kids in most cases. Also, most of them are not as well educated to hold good posts which probably makes things more difficult, more so in a time when costs are increasing year by year. It is ridiculous to blame others for the poverty. They do need to introspect themselves. Having kids for fun and then realizing they cannot support even half of them is not going to solve the problems. mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 35 minutes ago, Straight Drive said: The poverty of Muslims imo is because only males in most families do job. The women do not contribute to family income in lot of cases. There is no data to support this but just an observation. The other reason is the male has too many people to support on his own income. They have 2 and more kids in most cases. Also, most of them are not as well educated to hold good posts which probably makes things more difficult, more so in a time when costs are increasing year by year. It is ridiculous to blame others for the poverty. They do need to introspect themselves. Having kids for fun and then realizing they cannot support even half of them is not going to solve the problems. Here in UK, you are in very good shape if you are doctor or dentist. However, i know 2 Muslim dentist and docs who struggled all their life. Far too many mouths to feed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Btw struggle means all they can do is buy no more than one house in semi decent area to their children. while A non Muslim dic will help his son to buy a house in Semindecent London. Price wise ratio is 1:7 or 1:10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachinism Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 On 3/4/2019 at 9:56 AM, beetle said: Many hindus have been doing it for ever. Infact doing worse. Don't eat from the hands of lower castes,muslims etc. Why generalise and over react based on one reaction? haha thank you for exposing the hypocrisy. I know of a Hindu who said the exact same about supporting business owned by Muslims. But nah it's the Muslims and their quran that causes hate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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