Solution to Kashmir

[mishra]

26 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

I doubt if your Economic or Social KPIs are getting better. 

 

Anyways goodluck to you. 

I thin what you missed is estimates that India will be still “fastest growing economy” in world as per IMF in current fiscal year.

On economic front, India is competing with India. 

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Autonomous said:

I know what you are saying. Problem is, most of Pakistanis don't think and are product of rote learning hence are poor with analysis and problem breakup hence they believe whatever they are fed by the army.

 

Imran Khan himself is product of establishment, they won't even allow media to show opposition rallies. 

 

Mostly intellectual Pakistanis believe that we should simply integrate AJK and GB, IOK will only make matters worse for us. 

 

The nationalist and establishment fed wing is the problem (which is unfortunately in masses), I dream of the day where the expenditure upon army is allocated to making use of regions like Balochistan, GB, Waziristan, Southern Punjab & Interior Sindh. 

Wait what?  A post from a combative greenbro that actually acknowledges reality in PureLand.  Noice.

 

Btw, the day your dream comes true (unlikely tbh), the pakistani economy can probably leave India's in the dust.  Reason being it is much easier for a smaller population base and country to quickly raise its per capita income, and overall development and infrastructure quality.    Take Bangladesh's example - in spite of them being a total basketcase in 1971, they are comfortably ahead of Pakistan today, and if things keep going well for them, their per capita income may get higher than India's in a decade or so.  My point in saying this is - Pak Army has royally screwed over the people of Pakistan - you guys could have been as rich as Malaysia or even better by now.  But instead your army forced you to spend blood and treasure on delusions of defeating India.

Edited September 19, 2019 by sandeep

[Autonomous]

51 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Wait what?  A post from a combative greenbro that actually acknowledges reality in PureLand.  Noice.

 

Btw, the day your dream comes true (unlikely tbh), the pakistani economy can probably leave India's in the dust.  Reason being it is much easier for a smaller population base and country to quickly raise its per capita income, and overall development and infrastructure quality.    Take Bangladesh's example - in spite of them being a total basketcase in 1971, they are comfortably ahead of Pakistan today, and if things keep going well for them, their per capita income may get higher than India's in a decade or so.  My point in saying this is - Pak Army has royally screwed over the people of Pakistan - you guys could have been as rich as Malaysia or even better by now.  But instead your army forced you to spend blood and treasure on delusions of defeating India.

To be honest, Army doesn't give a **** about business, economy, society etc. Establishment Elites live an extremely extravegant life style which explains for a hefty army budget. Many organizations are owned by the army which hold market for certain goods and thus provide them those huge fat profits. 

 

Schooling System is extremely poor, which I feel is the major failure, if your environment and learning at basic level is of high quality, then you are more likely to do better in any facet of life even without higher education, every year they increase a bit of budget for education however there is no check or control over quality of education rather more so on quantity (this is primary reason why i feel we lack in R&D as well). 

 

I also feel we don't know what our strengths are. Lets say germans are pioneer with engineering (having crafted tools of quality as that of flex while vehicles as that of audi), China utilizes its population & resource supply to conduct low cost production and can essentially be a copy cat although there are good quality products too. To develop and succeed, you actually need to find your "core competence" which unfortunately, we haven't. 

 

I feel there is huge potential for Accounting/Consulting Services as well. But problem is resource utilization, there might be many factors of production however they may not be utilized, each year many qualified accountants move out to different countries for work whereas others struggle (hence not utilizing the labour/population resource), similarly we may not have explored many of natural resources resulting in the lack of utilization. We don't know what resources/competence and how strong they are, hence not knowing our primary strengths which thus means that the capacity is vastly under utilized. Thanks to our beloveds, no attention is given to these issues. 

 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Autonomous

[randomGuy]

@Autonomous Imho Pakistan needs more people like you.

[Autonomous]

1 hour ago, mishra said:

Ok Bhai, I told you what solution should be from Indian perspective. You told what solution should be from your perspective. 

 Both solutions are exactly opposite. So, we continue to fight in coming years. Lets see, who achieves the objective in coming years

No problem. What you are proposing isn't even a solution. 

[sandeep]

49 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

To be honest, Army doesn't give a **** about business, economy, society etc. Establishment Elites live an extremely extravegant life style which explains for a hefty army budget. Many organizations are owned by the army which hold market for certain goods and thus provide them those huge fat profits. 

 

Schooling System is extremely poor, which I feel is the major failure, if your environment and learning at basic level is of high quality, then you are more likely to do better in any facet of life even without higher education, every year they increase a bit of budget for education however there is no check or control over quality of education rather more so on quantity (this is primary reason why i feel we lack in R&D as well). 

 

I also feel we don't know what our strengths are. Lets say germans are pioneer with engineering (having crafted tools of quality as that of flex while vehicles as that of audi), China utilizes its population & resource supply to conduct low cost production and can essentially be a copy cat although there are good quality products too. To develop and succeed, you actually need to find your "core competence" which unfortunately, we haven't. 

 

I feel there is huge potential for Accounting/Consulting Services as well. But problem is resource utilization, there might be many factors of production however they may not be utilized, each year many qualified accountants move out to different countries for work whereas others struggle (hence not utilizing the labour/population resource), similarly we may not have explored many of natural resources resulting in the lack of utilization. We don't know what resources/competence and how strong they are, hence not knowing our primary strengths which thus means that the capacity is vastly under utilized. Thanks to our beloveds, no attention is given to these issues. 

 

Banjo you can talk so much sense, and you waste 90% of the time on this forum in mindless Ind vs Pak feces throwing contests.   Like @randomGuy said, wish more greenbros were like you.   And truth is, most Pakistanis you meet outside the "internet" aren't too far off from that.  Wonder what happens on the internet though.   

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, Autonomous said:

I doubt if your Economic or Social KPIs are getting better. 

 

Anyways goodluck to you. 

The Modi govt has scored a coupleo of own goals - demonetization etc. but I'm still optimistic on the Indian growth prospects.  Even this govt will eventually get it right.  

[Autonomous]

3 hours ago, sandeep said:

Banjo you can talk so much sense, and you waste 90% of the time on this forum in mindless Ind vs Pak feces throwing contests.   Like @randomGuy said, wish more greenbros were like you.   And truth is, most Pakistanis you meet outside the "internet" aren't too far off from that.  Wonder what happens on the internet though.   

I'm rarely active on the forum due to busy life and routine. By the way, I have received suggestions to move out of Pakistan and walk into some top organization while sending back foreign remittance. Economic Conditions are all time low right now with insane level of downsizing under uncertain environment. 

 

There is so much wrong with this current government, completely inept and lack of operational understanding or sense with crucial factors such as behavioral impacts of government policies & targets, economy's dynamics and multiplier effect. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by Autonomous

[sandeep]

On 9/19/2019 at 10:52 AM, Autonomous said:

You will never get GB or AJK, and its not POK. It is AJK and Gilgit Baltistan FYI. 

 

Since you are claiming Gilgit Baltistan is not part of PoK, then you should have no problems with Ladakh becoming an Indian Union Territory then.  Btw, can you do me a favor and explain to me who Baba Jan is? He is from GB btw.  

 

On 9/19/2019 at 10:52 AM, Autonomous said:

India is the last country that should talk about documents, systems or agreements

Care to point to ONE document/agreement/system that India has violated?  Before you start jumping up and down about "plebescite".  Those require total withdrawal of Pak forces from PoK and Gilgit Baltistan - regardless whether you agree with that or not.  Leave that aside, and please try to list any other agreements that Indian govt has broken.  

 

Do Pakistanis even understand how generous India was to Pakistan when it comes to the Indus Water Treaty?  It had no reason to sign away as much water rights that it did, as the upper riparian state.  But it did so, in the interests of long-term peace and co-operation.  And till date, India has yet to violate this treaty. 

 

Its a separate issue that PakMil mafia love to feed your ignorant awaam all kinds of lies and propaganda about Pakistan's water problems being India's fault - given the fact that Pak govt has miserably mismanaged its water resources.  Just look at the Railways in India and Pakistan - both countries inherited the system as-is at Independence.  I view India's failure and delay in modernizing its network as a massive failure. But comparing it to Pakistan's railway state, it seems that Indian government should get medals instead. Same thing with Pakistani rivers, canals and waterways.  Pure mismanagement, and instead of working to fix the problems, just blame India.

 

When it comes to agreements, Pakistan was instructed by the UN to withdraw ALL its forces from J&K, it did not.  Pakistan invaded the valley in 1965 and lost.  Pakistan signed the Shimla agreement in 1971, which commits Pakistan to discussing ALL issues including Kashmir, to bilateral negotiations.  But Pakistan has been whining, crying and begging for decades to anybody who will listen for "mediation".   Pakistan agreed in 2003 to cease cross-border terrorism, including across the LOC.  Your dictator of the moment went on TV to make this promise.  It has violated this promise thousands of times since then.  Pakistan is yet to convict any of the accused for the 2008 attacks in my beloved Mumbai, despite international commitments to do so.  

 

There is a reason why no country in the world is supporting Pakistan's public chest-beating today over Kashmir. In spite of Indian govt's clear violation of civil rights there.   The entire world is willing to give the benefit of the doubt and a bit of slack to the Indian government - because it knows that the issue is messy, and the Indian govt has earned its credibility and goodwill over decades.  Pakistan has done the exact opposite.  

 

 

Edited September 20, 2019 by sandeep

[Pandya_Power]

On 9/19/2019 at 10:52 AM, Autonomous said:

You will never get GB or AJK, and its not POK. It is AJK and Gilgit Baltistan FYI. 

 

You or your Jaishankar may get it in their dreams.

 

India is the last country that should talk about documents, systems or agreements

A few decades of development & people from PoK will protetsing against Lahore brutality and demanding that their Indian heritage be recognized, lol.

Its funny how nothing can surprise you about human behavior, once you ascribe economic motives to explain them. 

[mishra]

1 hour ago, Pandya_Power said:

A few decades of development & people from PoK will protetsing against Lahore brutality and demanding that their Indian heritage be recognized, lol.

Its funny how nothing can surprise you about human behavior, once you ascribe economic motives to explain them. 

I think there is some basics missing. Most Pakistanis are assuming that civillians of pak occupied Kashmir will transform overnight into warriors and fight alongside Pakistani army against Indian forces. They will not just be warriors, they will defeat Indian forces. 

 

But in reality, 99% will  leave their home run away with their families to a safer place. Be it Pakistan or J&k.  What is certain that  The same Pakistan which is currently telling them that they are on their side, will be questioning in its parliament, if cost of keeping these refugees is worth the benefit. After all, its not a Unmaah issue. Blah blah blah. Ie Kashmiri of displaced POk should be “forced” to leave Pakistan.

My final opinion on the issue

Edited September 20, 2019 by mishra

[Pandya_Power]

26 minutes ago, mishra said:

I think there is some basics missing. Most Pakistanis are assuming that civillians of pak occupied Kashmir will transform overnight into warriors and fight alongside Pakistani army against Indian forces. They will not just be warriors, they will defeat Indian forces. 

 

But in reality, 99% will  leave their home run away with their families to a safer place. Be it Pakistan or J&k.  What is certain that  The same Pakistan which is currently telling them that they are on their side, will be questioning in its parliament, if cost of keeping these refugees is worth the benefit. After all, its not a Unmaah issue. Blah blah blah. Ie Kashmiri of displaced POk should be “forced” to leave Pakistan.

My final opinion on the issue

Yeah. There are no easy solutions to the Kashmir question. It just needed to be done - ideal solutions based on self-determination is a fantasy that far lesser world powers (Spain for example) would never entertain. Its funny how this nonsensical discourse gets peddled about when countries in the East are in conflict. 

 

Kashmir (the land) is too important from India's national strategic interest perspective. The people can choose to be beneficiaries (smarter choice) or they can be collateral damage. As a mainland Indian, I really have no sympathy / goodwill / tax money to spare for appeasing seditious elements. People hoping  for a peaceful resolution where no one gets affected are deluding themselves. 

[First class]

On 9/15/2019 at 1:25 PM, mishra said:

Pakistan will never go to full fledged war with India for Kashmiri. Despite all crocodile tears, it will not let a single Kashmiri cross its side of border.

So only solution is create a path to Afghanistan by acquiring uninhabited land of PoK and cutoff supply line to china

You must be the most intelligent guy in your class, came out with this brilliant idea no one thought about it. Easy to be done, acquiring uninhibited land of Pakistan and cutoff line to China. I'm sure Pakistan and China won;t have any objection to it, brilliant, just brilliant.

 

I'm sure geography must be your strongest subject, you just discovered a path to Afghanistan by acquiring uninhibited part of "PoK".

[Autonomous]

1 hour ago, First class said:

You must be the most intelligent guy in your class, came out with this brilliant idea no one thought about it. Easy to be done, acquiring uninhibited land of Pakistan and cutoff line to China. I'm sure Pakistan and China won;t have any objection to it, brilliant, just brilliant.

 

I'm sure geography must be your strongest subject, you just discovered a path to Afghanistan by acquiring uninhibited part of "PoK".

There are some brilliant minds in padosi land as well. They ignore reality as well just like many overseas pakistanis. 

[mishra]

1 hour ago, First class said:

You must be the most intelligent guy in your class, came out with this brilliant idea no one thought about it. Easy to be done, acquiring uninhibited land of Pakistan and cutoff line to China. I'm sure Pakistan and China won;t have any objection to it, brilliant, just brilliant.

 

I'm sure geography must be your strongest subject, you just discovered a path to Afghanistan by acquiring uninhibited part of "PoK".

No man, i would like least bloodshed to achieve the intended target. Unlike Kargil/Pakistan, No one will ask India to go back as legally land belongs to India.

Edited September 22, 2019 by mishra

[Autonomous]

4 hours ago, mishra said:

No man, i would like least bloodshed to achieve the intended target. Unlike Kargil/Pakistan, No one will ask India to go back as legally land belongs to India.

Keep dreaming buddy

 

[Pandya_Power]

35 minutes ago, Autonomous said:

Keep dreaming buddy

 

It does dude. It all does - PoK, Balochistan, most parts of Sindh, NWFP - most of these territories belong to India. And In a ouple of decades, they will desperately want India to liberate them from Punjab oppression.  

[mishra]

2 hours ago, Autonomous said:

Keep dreaming buddy

 

Its not about dreaming. Its fact. Why do you think so many ceasefire agreements get broken on LoC. Both sides know that, No one will utter a single word if India gains some territory, because world is governed by laws. Now after 370, you can understand how costly this winter is going to become and next one and one after that for Pakistan army to keep Indian forces at bay on LoC.

You want to spend that much just so that you can keep Indian land in your control. So go ahead because India has accepted war of attrition.

[Autonomous]

49 minutes ago, mishra said:

Its not about dreaming. Its fact. Why do you think so many ceasefire agreements get broken on LoC. Both sides know that, No one will utter a single word if India gains some territory, because world is governed by laws. Now after 370, you can understand how costly this winter is going to become and next one and one after that for Pakistan army to keep Indian forces at bay on LoC.

You want to spend that much just so that you can keep Indian land in your control. So go ahead because India has accepted war of attrition.

The day you step foot into Baltistan or AJK, you will be bringing upon, the nuclear war in region. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Autonomous

[First class]

6 hours ago, Pandya_Power said:

It does dude. It all does - PoK, Balochistan, most parts of Sindh, NWFP - most of these territories belong to India. And In a ouple of decades, they will desperately want India to liberate them from Punjab oppression.  

What grade are you in ? just curious !